600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs.
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EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
wmilas
Couldn't you drill some holes in that emergency overflow lower down so water goes down it and perhaps stops some of the air from being sucked down.
Just a thought.
BTW I assume when you said "drive a truck through it" you were referring to the 2" main drain.
ok lots of things:
I could drill the 2 " pipe, the 4" pipe and the bucket. I'll need to find a 4" pipe somewhere. Menards only sells it in 10' segments at like 26 bux. Ugh.
The water does NOT rise up in the emergency drains. I can sell all the way down into the 3" pipe. I'm leary about restricting though and forcing water up because then I am hoping nothing restricts, ever or I'll have water on the floor.
Alan: I could drill holes farther down, but it still wouldn't fill them completely with water.
Ok I've figured out my plan of action. I'm going to run as is for another month or perhaps two. IF I have time I'll drill the bucket. I'm going to keep the skimmer off to "help" with the slime and lower my orp. I want to see if some of the bubbles go away.
If they don't I'm going to do the following:
I'm going to get a 35 gallon brute and put it below the tank. I'm going to cut a bulkhead for a 2" pipe and plumb it to the main sump. I'm going to fill it with rock. I'm going to pull the 3" line completely off and replumb it with dual beanies system, all 1.5" lines.
That will fix it. Its just that it will take a a whole weekend to do and will be a total PITA.
Oh also, after thinking about It i'm completely convinced I'm flowing way too much water through the sump. I'm going to dial the dart way back (as suggested). Its entirely possible the dart is cavitating which is making it worse. If I dial it back and it helps long term, I might pull it and install a snapper, or something smaller.
I could drill the 2 " pipe, the 4" pipe and the bucket. I'll need to find a 4" pipe somewhere. Menards only sells it in 10' segments at like 26 bux. Ugh.
The water does NOT rise up in the emergency drains. I can sell all the way down into the 3" pipe. I'm leary about restricting though and forcing water up because then I am hoping nothing restricts, ever or I'll have water on the floor.
Alan: I could drill holes farther down, but it still wouldn't fill them completely with water.
Ok I've figured out my plan of action. I'm going to run as is for another month or perhaps two. IF I have time I'll drill the bucket. I'm going to keep the skimmer off to "help" with the slime and lower my orp. I want to see if some of the bubbles go away.
If they don't I'm going to do the following:
I'm going to get a 35 gallon brute and put it below the tank. I'm going to cut a bulkhead for a 2" pipe and plumb it to the main sump. I'm going to fill it with rock. I'm going to pull the 3" line completely off and replumb it with dual beanies system, all 1.5" lines.
That will fix it. Its just that it will take a a whole weekend to do and will be a total PITA.
Oh also, after thinking about It i'm completely convinced I'm flowing way too much water through the sump. I'm going to dial the dart way back (as suggested). Its entirely possible the dart is cavitating which is making it worse. If I dial it back and it helps long term, I might pull it and install a snapper, or something smaller.
marino420td
Premium Member
Sorry if this has been suggested but I didn't have time to read everyone's responses. I recommend you build better bubble towers in your sump. I believe the bubbles are just overflowing your bucket and going right into your sump. The 3" drop from the bucket rim to the sump can also cause more bubbles. I copied this idea from RC member Stan Zemanek (sp?). they work great.
Good luck as I know they can drive you crazy.
Good luck as I know they can drive you crazy.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
wmilas
You know if you get this licked your method can become:
THE WMILAS BUBBLE FREE OVERFLOW SYSTEM
:lol:
You know if you get this licked your method can become:
THE WMILAS BUBBLE FREE OVERFLOW SYSTEM
:lol:
I'm trying to figure out whats going on there., It looks like a 3" sanitary T with a 3 inch ip and down segment, and the lines coming into the Y. Are the bottoms drilled? I assume the tops are open to let air out?
How does the water get out? Do the end before they hit the bottom of the tub? doesnt look like they are drilled?
How does the water get out? Do the end before they hit the bottom of the tub? doesnt look like they are drilled?
marino420td
Premium Member
sorry about that, I didn't have time to fully explain when I posted earlier today.
Here are pics of my actual setup. The bubble towers sit flat on the bottom of the sump. They have thin openings cut around the base of the tower that allows the water to escape while keeping the bubbles inside. The bubbles rise to the top of the water inside the tower and dissipate. Some of the bubbles escape into the sump. Because of this, the pump return is at the opposite end of the sump. Very few bubbles make it to the return pipe.
The live rock between the bubble towers and the return pipe helps to contain any bubbles that escape the traps.
Here are pics of my actual setup. The bubble towers sit flat on the bottom of the sump. They have thin openings cut around the base of the tower that allows the water to escape while keeping the bubbles inside. The bubbles rise to the top of the water inside the tower and dissipate. Some of the bubbles escape into the sump. Because of this, the pump return is at the opposite end of the sump. Very few bubbles make it to the return pipe.
The live rock between the bubble towers and the return pipe helps to contain any bubbles that escape the traps.
paulthomas
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14174316#post14174316 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marino420td
sorry about that, I didn't have time to fully explain when I posted earlier today.
Here are pics of my actual setup. The bubble towers sit flat on the bottom of the sump. They have thin openings cut around the base of the tower that allows the water to escape while keeping the bubbles inside. The bubbles rise to the top of the water inside the tower and dissipate. Some of the bubbles escape into the sump. Because of this, the pump return is at the opposite end of the sump. Very few bubbles make it to the return pipe.
The live rock between the bubble towers and the return pipe helps to contain any bubbles that escape the traps.
Great idea. I'm going to have to remember this if I have micro bubble issues. Thanks marino420td.
Isn't that essentially what Melev does with his sumps? It seems to work well for him.
Yup. Thaks for all the info. Miztic was over yesterday and he remarked that my water was REALLY "fizzy". I think it has something to do with the orb. any disturbance what so ever seems to make microbubbles. I think I just need to let the water age at this point. I'm going to continue to keep the skimmer off. I dosed more phyto last night also.
In about a month I'll take more of the great ideas listed here and incorporate them if I'm still having issues. Thanks for all your support guys.
On another note, 600 dwarf cerith, flyspeckled ceriths, and larger florida ceriths went into the tank yesterday. It was so cold when they shipped I was afraid that they might have died in transit. It looks like over 90% of them up up, moving around, and mowing down algae.
I put some in the fuge, and the majority in the display. They really did a number on the algae last night
In about a month I'll take more of the great ideas listed here and incorporate them if I'm still having issues. Thanks for all your support guys.
On another note, 600 dwarf cerith, flyspeckled ceriths, and larger florida ceriths went into the tank yesterday. It was so cold when they shipped I was afraid that they might have died in transit. It looks like over 90% of them up up, moving around, and mowing down algae.
I put some in the fuge, and the majority in the display. They really did a number on the algae last night
RandalB
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14182587#post14182587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wmilas
On another note, 600 dwarf cerith, flyspeckled ceriths, and larger florida ceriths went into the tank yesterday. It was so cold when they shipped I was afraid that they might have died in transit. It looks like over 90% of them up up, moving around, and mowing down algae.
I put some in the fuge, and the majority in the display. They really did a number on the algae last night
Where did you order from Pray tell...
RandalB
Some more info. Skimmer has been off for a while now. 4 Days? Orp is slowly dropping 495 now. I've been dosing phyto on and off. There is a STRONG phyto/algae smell coming from the tank, and the wife isn't happy. I'm going to have to either turn the skimmer on soon or start running carbon.
On the plus side pods growth has EXPLODED. There are millions. The micro bubbles are way down, but there are zillions of free swimming pods on the glass and in the water column.
Miztic brought a bit of his live sand over last weekend. Hopefully there are some worms and other goodies in it.
The snails are alive, happy, and eating way more algae way faster than I thought. They have damn near cleaned out the fuge. I'm probably going to have to move some to the main tank, or encourage more algae growth. I dropped a small piece of 1" pvc wrapped with nori in tonight for them. Hope they enjoy it In the main tank they are busily cleaning away getting fat and happy I hope
On the plus side pods growth has EXPLODED. There are millions. The micro bubbles are way down, but there are zillions of free swimming pods on the glass and in the water column.
Miztic brought a bit of his live sand over last weekend. Hopefully there are some worms and other goodies in it.
The snails are alive, happy, and eating way more algae way faster than I thought. They have damn near cleaned out the fuge. I'm probably going to have to move some to the main tank, or encourage more algae growth. I dropped a small piece of 1" pvc wrapped with nori in tonight for them. Hope they enjoy it
In the main tank they are busily cleaning away getting fat and happy I hope Installed both of the 26" reverse flow media filters today. The first one is loaded with carbon, the second is empty. I've had the skimmer off now for a few weeks and things are starting to smell like algae. Its hard to describe. Its a sickly sweet smell. Anyways, hopefully the carbon will do the trick.
erics3000
Active member
I just got caught back up. Not sure about this but thought it was worth a stab. Do you still have the return from your dart running up to the roof and then down to your tank. You might be getting air there. I remember seeing this in the begining of your thread just not sure if you already did something with it.
Your build is coming along sweet. You also sold me on getting a couple magnum 8's down the road.
Your build is coming along sweet. You also sold me on getting a couple magnum 8's down the road.
erics3000: Its possible. I might have a pinhole leak somewhere. I'm going to let it all calm down first though. I want to see if the carbon will get rid of the smell and if it does I'm going to build an algal scrubber. I won't do it if it makes the whole house smell like pet shop though
The carbon seems to be working. The smell is still there, but it seems diminished. I'll know for sure in the next couple of days.
The carbon seems to be working. The smell is still there, but it seems diminished. I'll know for sure in the next couple of days.
Pod generation. I was skimming for two weeks. IF I turn the skimmer on, its so strong it sucks ALL the pods, phyto, damn near everything out of the water. Thats not to say I won't ever skim again, I'm just trying to maximize the micro-fauna atm while the system is still fish-less. I won't have a chance to do it later.
*IF* the carbon works and removes all the odor, I'm also 95% sure I'm going to build a large spray bar (well 4 spray bars in my case) Agal scrubber and run it in place of the skimmer. Before people get all weirded out, I'm not sure its going to work. However the more reading I do, the more I'm convinced a healthy tanks needs ALOT of food in the water, 100% of the time for healthy coral.
Here is the problem. My skimmer is so efficient it sucks damn near 100% of all the organic solids out of the water as it passes through the sump. The coral eat that stuff. So I have to feed with the skimmer off, let the coral eat, then suck all that good food out when the skimmer turns back on. This leads to a cycle of over feeding, skimming, ect. I'd like to keep that food in the system all the time. I'd also like to keep zooplankton in the system, but I can't with a skimmer, or at least not in a healthy natural quantity.
But if you do that you have nasty nutrient build. Enter the algal scrubber. It removes inorganic waste (N&P) but not the organic food. The organic food is good... you want that in the system. Its the inorganic stuff that causes algae outbreaks, saturates your rocks, fouls up the sandbed, ect.
I've also noticed a very alarming trend in Tank of the Months. All of them run super efficient skimmers, with very clean water. After about 3-4 years damn near everyone has a systemic tank crash as far as their corals go. I'm starting to believe its because the system is unbalanced and the corals simply don't have enough to eat. IF you look at the weight of food per liter of water in a natural reef compared to a highly skimmed system, its absurd how much more food a reef has.
So I'm going to try a massive scrubber. I'm lucky that I have the room to try it. If it works, great. If not, the skimmer goes back into operation
*IF* the carbon works and removes all the odor, I'm also 95% sure I'm going to build a large spray bar (well 4 spray bars in my case) Agal scrubber and run it in place of the skimmer. Before people get all weirded out, I'm not sure its going to work. However the more reading I do, the more I'm convinced a healthy tanks needs ALOT of food in the water, 100% of the time for healthy coral.
Here is the problem. My skimmer is so efficient it sucks damn near 100% of all the organic solids out of the water as it passes through the sump. The coral eat that stuff. So I have to feed with the skimmer off, let the coral eat, then suck all that good food out when the skimmer turns back on. This leads to a cycle of over feeding, skimming, ect. I'd like to keep that food in the system all the time. I'd also like to keep zooplankton in the system, but I can't with a skimmer, or at least not in a healthy natural quantity.
But if you do that you have nasty nutrient build. Enter the algal scrubber. It removes inorganic waste (N&P) but not the organic food. The organic food is good... you want that in the system. Its the inorganic stuff that causes algae outbreaks, saturates your rocks, fouls up the sandbed, ect.
I've also noticed a very alarming trend in Tank of the Months. All of them run super efficient skimmers, with very clean water. After about 3-4 years damn near everyone has a systemic tank crash as far as their corals go. I'm starting to believe its because the system is unbalanced and the corals simply don't have enough to eat. IF you look at the weight of food per liter of water in a natural reef compared to a highly skimmed system, its absurd how much more food a reef has.
So I'm going to try a massive scrubber. I'm lucky that I have the room to try it. If it works, great. If not, the skimmer goes back into operation
This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1560997
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