600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs.

[wmilas]

Well mine should be less than many other "large" tanks. The tank and room have been designed for efficiency. Since I'm not going down into the basement from a higher floro I can use a non pressure rated return pump. My skimmer uses one of the most efficient pump available. I have low flow through the fuge and frag tanks from the sump so thats a small pump.

I'm using t5 Lighting so I get more light spread and better heat control that MH's. The room is designed with fresh air exchange in and out from outside by two very energy efficient (< 30 watts each) units so that should take a lare load off a dehumidifier and/or split AC unit, if I'll ever infact actually need them.

All water movement in the tanks will be via Tunzies which are about as energy efficient as you can get. The smaller frag tank and fuge and hospital tanks will probably just use koralias for economic reasons.

So I'm hoping the tank will net out at 100-150 a month to run, thats midwest energy prices at about .13 cents per kw/h.

 

[victor90]

Now thats a nice Kw/h rate it costs me that much to run my little 210

 

[PaulieWalnuts]

i think its lower then that in VA....have to look at my bill though

 

[wmilas]

Drilled two of the glass tanks, a 40 breeder and a 65. That went off without a hitch. I started drilling the water towers and realized I messed up. The freshwater tower I tried to drill the side as close to the bottom as possible so that I can gravity drain as much as I can. I cut it too close and now the flange on a 1 1/2" bulkhead wont fit. In my haste I tried to jam it in there and ended up breaking the bulkhead.

I ordered another one but I'm kinda PO'ed at myself. When it comes in I'll grind one side of the flange and it'll fit.

 

[wmilas]

Pictures. Please excuse the stuff strewn everywhere. Its a work in progress.

Shot of the overflow. Its hard to get it all in even with a wide angled lens the run is so long.

Closeup shot of the bottom of the right overflow box. Notice one of the 2 1/2 bulkheads is not hooked to anything. Its plugged on the inside with a threaded cap.

Left overflow box. Same with the extra bulkhead is right.

Emptying into sump:

Inside sump. Notice the return into the pump will suck from the bottom left once that extension is press fitted in. I know that sump looks small with the lens I'm using but its BIG. That thing is little more that 4 feet long and 4 feet high. that "small" pipe on the bottom is 2".

 

[wmilas]

Shot of the return pump (Dart)

Close up of the return back to the tank.

Top of the tank left side. The right angle elbows are just press fit for now. Those will most likely come off and 1" Wavy sea loc-line bits will go in. The ones that are just nozzles, not the movable powered ones.

Right side

Filter tower. Top is Fuge (65 Gallon), 2nd and 3rd are 40 gallon breeders. The middle is a frag tank that can be isolated from the system. The bottom is a dedicated isolation for fish. Everything will be strictly treated before entering the main display.

 

[wmilas]

Here you can see the emergency overflow bulkhead for the sump. There will be a riser press fit to control the maxim overflow. I know its not strictly needed but its for peace of mind. The pump to drain the sump will also head down that way.

To the left of the sink you can see a pipe sticking up. That's the dedicated drain everything will be plumbed into.

Here is the saltwater mix chamber.

And a shot of the hole I $&^&#@#$@ up and need to grind down a bulkhead to fit on the fresh water tank.

The RO/DI unit will go up to the left next to the fresh water tank. The right side will be a system of manifolds to control the water movement from the fresh and saltwater vessels to the tanks/sump, along with manifolds to control draining of the tanks/sump

 

[erics3000]

Why dis you run the return from the pump so high and not use some flex pvc to save some head pressure?

 

[PaulieWalnuts]

looking good nice work on the plumping is that dry fitted or glued....i had the purple primer ALL over lol i am not good with this plumbing stuff

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I feel the need to express some concern over your return pump/return plumbing. Darts are not pressure rated pumps. They lose a TON of flow when put up against head pressure. Not sure why you have it go up and then down like that, but if you can have it shoot straight over to the tank you'd be much better off. Also, I count four outputs? I have a Dart pushing water through two 3/4" loc-line outputs. My flow is just about perfect for a 225. The outputs are T'd off of a vertical 1 1/2" pipe sitting directly above the pump. Water travels about 5 1/2' vertically and about a foot horizontally. I seriously doubt the amount of flow you're going to get out of those four nozzles. I'd look into a more powerfull pump. Sorry if I missed something.

 

[erics3000]

Or you could add a OM4. I think my dart rocks for the money. I love the new gold pumps with less elec consumption and more flow.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I love my Darts too, I have four of em. I just think he may be expecting a bit more than a Dart can deliver. An OM 4-way is a good option, kind of defeats the purpose of the Wavy Seas though.. I think a Barracuda would be perfect for what he's trying to do. Or ditch the Wavy Seas idea and run the 4-way instead.

Also, I planned on plumbing my returns in the front just like yours. I changed my mind after I realized that I would need to reach over them when working on my 30" tall tank. Have you considered running the plumbing along the back? I know you'll be working on your tank from the back pretty often, but you'll need to reach in much further from the front than from the back.

 

[wmilas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13670353#post13670353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by erics3000
Why dis you run the return from the pump so high and not use some flex pvc to save some head pressure?

I either had to go straight up and over (like I did) or along the floor then up the tank. Going up like I did saved a copble of 90's and I only went up 2.5 feet more than the other way.

I need the space "clear" because along that wall I'm going to put all the electrical, the ACIII Pro, and all that other electrical goo-gads. If I went along the floor I'd be constantly kicking it as I also tried to navigate the overflow pipe.

As far as why there is no spaflex, there is a bit. That 1.5 inch flex is a total pain to work with as far as bending. Instead of having a spaghetti mess of flex I prefer the cleaner look of the hard plumbed.

 

[wmilas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13670761#post13670761 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PaulieWalnuts
looking good nice work on the plumping is that dry fitted or glued....i had the purple primer ALL over lol i am not good with this plumbing stuff

Its glued. I used the clear primer instead of the purple for that reason. I need to go back with some alcohol and wipe down all the remaining crude when I get a chance.

 

[wmilas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13671289#post13671289 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thechad21
I love my Darts too, I have four of em. I just think he may be expecting a bit more than a Dart can deliver. An OM 4-way is a good option, kind of defeats the purpose of the Wavy Seas though.. I think a Barracuda would be perfect for what he's trying to do. Or ditch the Wavy Seas idea and run the 4-way instead.

Also, I planned on plumbing my returns in the front just like yours. I changed my mind after I realized that I would need to reach over them when working on my 30" tall tank. Have you considered running the plumbing along the back? I know you'll be working on your tank from the back pretty often, but you'll need to reach in much further from the front than from the back.

I think you might be missing the intent of this pump here. All I'm trying to do is slightly overmatch the recommended flow through my Large ATB in the sump. As long as I do that I'm fine. This pump will no way add to the flow in the tank, or at least not in my calculations. Its only meant to skim the crap off the top. Those nozzles int eh tank are 1" outlets, not .75. I'm not using a OM-4. I'm just going to use the 1" nozzels that WS uses since lockline makes nothing larger than .75.

I did the head calculations, and the rest. With the above setup I should over-flow what my needs are for the ATB. Again those are 2" and 1.5" lines, not smaller restricted lines. There will be no exiting pressure on the outputs. If for some reason I don't get the flow I wanted through the sump I'll drop the dart and move one size up. It's the same diameter pipe for a barracuda, ect.

 

[supertech99]

I am not an expert on this but if you do not get the desired output flow from the 4 discharges can't you simply reduce the diamater in the first couple outputs and more water will flow to the last outputs? I don't see this as any large issue. since you are not using the filter setups for increased flow, all the water really has to go is actually get to he discharges with the adequate gph you want to exchange so it would make sense to me to go with the smallest pump that would give me the the gph I want with the smallest electricity used. I would think you would regain some flow that you lost via gravity on the return trip down. Does the flow drop drasticly on a "non-head rated" pump?

 

[wmilas]

2 Issues you touched on.

The first is that If I have unbalanced flow coming out, you are right i can restrict one of the first nozzles which would apply more pressure to the end ones. In reality I don't care all that much if the end isn't as strong as the first, within reason.

The second question is about head and flow. If a pump pushes water up 10 feet, and then does a U turn and comes down 10 feet, In a perfect world with 0 friction in the pipe and0 friction for the U turn part (just pretend) there is 0 head after the pump reaches equilibrium. What happens is the water struggles to go up, then gets sucked down by gravity.

In the real world there are friction losses going up and coming down. However if you go up 9 feet and come down 2.5 you have less head than 9 feet, thats for sure.

And you are right, I'm trying to be as efficient as possible here. I'm using a non pressure rated, lower wattage pump here precisely because I don't care about the pressure as it relates to velocity of the water exiting the 4 outputs. All I care is that it does exit above a certain flow rate. It will take a few seconds on startup for the pressure to equalize and the pump to reach its max flow rate, but I'm ok with that.

Being an engineer I sometimes wonder at the massive pressure rated pumps used in instances where there is no benefit to them. A pressure rated pump with minimal head pressure flows less, usually, than a lower rated centrifugal pump non pressure rated. Sure the /Pressure rated pump operates at close to a large % of its maximal flow but if instead you look at GPH per watt, the lower wattage non pressure rated pump, although only operating at 50% or 60% of its maximum flow, still flows the same gallonage per hour for less watts.

I guess the story here is this. I calculated the flow I needed per hour and head loss and sized it with the most efficient pump for that exact application. In this instance I believe it to be a non pressure rated pump that will flow far less than its maximal volume, but still be the most efficient per watt for the flow I need

 

[Oldtimer]

I think a Dart can supply quite a lot even though it's not a pressure rated pump. As long as you don't neck down every return line, a Dart is more than capable of feeding multiple circuits. I intend to supply 4 circuits from a Dart. I've done the math as well pulling data right from their pump curve and it will do just fine on my 240 display.

 

[erics3000]

This is reallly going to be an incredible setup. Just some FYI. I have 2 of my port from my OM4 going to 3/4 educators. Same problem I could not find locline 1. I did find a 1 educator it is called flow something. I picked it at a local store for $10 with a male1 thread and a couple inchs of similar locline. Cheaper than the 3/4 ones I have and I don't have to reduce the size. When I get home Ill take some pics.

 

[mcliffy2]

wmilas - everything is looking very good...can't wait to see it up and running.

btw, you've only got few weeks left as the sole ATB L owner in Chicagoland....just ordered mine from Victor