600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs.
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
I've been thinking about my lighting situation more and more. I'm not happy with it. Here are the problems I have with it:
1) The build quality on the fixtures is suspect. The fans on one fixture completely failed and had to be replaced. I built a better fan subsystem for it. On the other fixture I have one failed fan... the rest will probably go soon. Mcliffy on our local forum had one of his ballasts go after just 10 months, and the "replacement" ballast shipped to him was a el cheap Chinese ballast.
2) The light spread is not what I had envisioned. The problem is that I have some heavy top bracing with 3 "cut outs". T5 fixtures hang over the left and right hole and the bracing between the left and right and the center hole. Very little light actually goes through the center..., its all light that filters through the bracing. The problem with this is teh bracing gets salt crud fast., I see a noticeable drop off when the crud builds up.
3) Maintenance. Its a total PITA. I have to keep the bracing clean, and weekly I have to wipe down 4 2 foot panels. I know it doesn't sound like alot but it takes time. That whole process is at least a 30 minute ordeal weekly. More if I keep the braces clean during the week.
4) Reliability. I'm afraid I'm going to have a ballast failure soon and I'm going to have to rebuild the thing dumping more money into it.
5) Ongoing cost. its going to cost me $500+ in about 3 months when it comes time to replace my bulbs.
6) No shimmer
7) Bulk hanging mechanism.
Now the positives:
1) Good par (I think, I'll know for sure when I get the par meter. but my eyes tell me its good par.
2) Great color. With the ability to mix and match bulbs I can get any color I like.
3) Staged on and off. I can bring banks on in stages simulating sunrise and sunset.
I'm thinking of buying a Lumenbright Large reflector, a good 400W ballast and a good 12-14k bulb. I'll make a much smaller mounting rig and give it a try over one of the holes to see what it actually looks like. Lumenbright III's at 30" over the tank give a nice 3x3 square which is what I need. Why?
1) The maintenance will be alot less. Its going to be easier to clean th much smaller reflector and bulb weekly, and I wont have to clean the bracing.
2) Reliability. Its a much simpler setup. Only parts that can fail are bulb and ballast and both are much easier replaced.
3) Cost. Changing 3 $70 bulbs every 6 months is much better than 24 $22 bulbs every 9 months
4) I'll have shimmer again.
Downside:
1) Colors will not be as good. I wont have Actinic supplementation. If I go this route I will NOT add supplement lights, unless I want to dork around with some LED's.
2) Heat. Although I don't think its going to be that big of an issue in my room.
3) I'll look like an idiot blowing as much money as I already have on the high end fixtures just to mothball them after 9 months of use.
Would like to hear your guys comments. I'm afraid this might be a bit of the grass is greener on the other side, but the maintenance is beginning to be a pita issue. Its not like I'm willing to spend time on the tank, but spending as much time as I am on the lighting is a pain.... I'd rather spend it in the tank.
1) The build quality on the fixtures is suspect. The fans on one fixture completely failed and had to be replaced. I built a better fan subsystem for it. On the other fixture I have one failed fan... the rest will probably go soon. Mcliffy on our local forum had one of his ballasts go after just 10 months, and the "replacement" ballast shipped to him was a el cheap Chinese ballast.
2) The light spread is not what I had envisioned. The problem is that I have some heavy top bracing with 3 "cut outs". T5 fixtures hang over the left and right hole and the bracing between the left and right and the center hole. Very little light actually goes through the center..., its all light that filters through the bracing. The problem with this is teh bracing gets salt crud fast., I see a noticeable drop off when the crud builds up.
3) Maintenance. Its a total PITA. I have to keep the bracing clean, and weekly I have to wipe down 4 2 foot panels. I know it doesn't sound like alot but it takes time. That whole process is at least a 30 minute ordeal weekly. More if I keep the braces clean during the week.
4) Reliability. I'm afraid I'm going to have a ballast failure soon and I'm going to have to rebuild the thing dumping more money into it.
5) Ongoing cost. its going to cost me $500+ in about 3 months when it comes time to replace my bulbs.
6) No shimmer
7) Bulk hanging mechanism.
Now the positives:
1) Good par (I think, I'll know for sure when I get the par meter. but my eyes tell me its good par.
2) Great color. With the ability to mix and match bulbs I can get any color I like.
3) Staged on and off. I can bring banks on in stages simulating sunrise and sunset.
I'm thinking of buying a Lumenbright Large reflector, a good 400W ballast and a good 12-14k bulb. I'll make a much smaller mounting rig and give it a try over one of the holes to see what it actually looks like. Lumenbright III's at 30" over the tank give a nice 3x3 square which is what I need. Why?
1) The maintenance will be alot less. Its going to be easier to clean th much smaller reflector and bulb weekly, and I wont have to clean the bracing.
2) Reliability. Its a much simpler setup. Only parts that can fail are bulb and ballast and both are much easier replaced.
3) Cost. Changing 3 $70 bulbs every 6 months is much better than 24 $22 bulbs every 9 months
4) I'll have shimmer again.
Downside:
1) Colors will not be as good. I wont have Actinic supplementation. If I go this route I will NOT add supplement lights, unless I want to dork around with some LED's.
2) Heat. Although I don't think its going to be that big of an issue in my room.
3) I'll look like an idiot blowing as much money as I already have on the high end fixtures just to mothball them after 9 months of use.
Would like to hear your guys comments. I'm afraid this might be a bit of the grass is greener on the other side, but the maintenance is beginning to be a pita issue. Its not like I'm willing to spend time on the tank, but spending as much time as I am on the lighting is a pain.... I'd rather spend it in the tank.
jnarowe
New member
You would not be the first to end up with this situation. You could switch to 20K halides BTW, and get great color, but you have to contend with the PAR issue. I use the term "PAR" only because it is common, but really what I mean is will there be enough light for the corals to grow.
It's different in every system due to so many variables, many of which you can control.
It's different in every system due to so many variables, many of which you can control.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
I haven't tried T5's so I can't comment on them.
I have 3 - 400 watt Coralvue 20k bulbs on Coralvue dimmable ballasts, using lumenbright mini reflectors.
I really like the color and the shimmer. Very little maintenence if any. Relatively low cost.
I generally think that light fixtures are great for open top tanks. If you have an in-wall setup or a canopy they're kind of pointless. You can get by with a retro kit and a clip on fan. Much cheaper and easier to service.
I have no desire to abandon my halides for T5's.
I think you'd be happier with halides.
I have 3 - 400 watt Coralvue 20k bulbs on Coralvue dimmable ballasts, using lumenbright mini reflectors.
I really like the color and the shimmer. Very little maintenence if any. Relatively low cost.
I generally think that light fixtures are great for open top tanks. If you have an in-wall setup or a canopy they're kind of pointless. You can get by with a retro kit and a clip on fan. Much cheaper and easier to service.
I have no desire to abandon my halides for T5's.
I think you'd be happier with halides.
Looks like it boils down to the PFO HQI ballast or one of the electronics. It looks like the hqi overdrives the bulbs while the electronics are more efficient but not as bright. The electronics look to be a bit cheaper. I also can't find the PFO in a single version, they are all double ballasts, which means I would have one extra "side".
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
Wade if your looking to go with the Lumenbrights and want to try one out before you spend the money your more than welcome to try one of mine to see if it's the color and shimmer your looking for.
They are Lumenbright's mini's (I think 16"x16") with a 400 watt Icecap and a Reefluk 14K bulb, just let me know. The ballasts are not dimmable.
They are Lumenbright's mini's (I think 16"x16") with a 400 watt Icecap and a Reefluk 14K bulb, just let me know. The ballasts are not dimmable.
Gieser
Member
We worked to try and get the look we wanted and ended up using LumenMax Elite with 400w Galaxy Ballasts for MH. We mixed this with 4x80w and 4x24w T5s (mixing the Giesemann Power Chrome True Actinic and Power Chrome Aqua Blue+). We tried the Hamilton 400w 14K bulbs, and they looked great, but someone recommended to try Reeflux 20K and said they were very similar in color to the Hamilton 14K. I did not want a "blue" tank, so I was hesitant. I decided to do it and I have never been happier. The reeflux 20K mixed with the T-5s created a crisp and very clear environment inside the tank. If I had to make up a color for them, I would say they are about 16K. What I like about the T5s mixed in is that when the halides are off, I still get a faint shimmer effect and our tank is 31" deep. It is a real nice look.
mcliffy2
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15168983#post15168983 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wmilas
I've been thinking about my lighting situation more and more. I'm not happy with it. Here are the problems I have with it:
1) The build quality on the fixtures is suspect. The fans on one fixture completely failed and had to be replaced. I built a better fan subsystem for it. On the other fixture I have one failed fan... the rest will probably go soon. Mcliffy on our local forum had one of his ballasts go after just 10 months, and the "replacement" ballast shipped to him was a el cheap Chinese ballast.
2) The light spread is not what I had envisioned. The problem is that I have some heavy top bracing with 3 "cut outs". T5 fixtures hang over the left and right hole and the bracing between the left and right and the center hole. Very little light actually goes through the center..., its all light that filters through the bracing. The problem with this is teh bracing gets salt crud fast., I see a noticeable drop off when the crud builds up.
3) Maintenance. Its a total PITA. I have to keep the bracing clean, and weekly I have to wipe down 4 2 foot panels. I know it doesn't sound like alot but it takes time. That whole process is at least a 30 minute ordeal weekly. More if I keep the braces clean during the week.
4) Reliability. I'm afraid I'm going to have a ballast failure soon and I'm going to have to rebuild the thing dumping more money into it.
5) Ongoing cost. its going to cost me $500+ in about 3 months when it comes time to replace my bulbs.
6) No shimmer
7) Bulk hanging mechanism.
Now the positives:
1) Good par (I think, I'll know for sure when I get the par meter. but my eyes tell me its good par.
2) Great color. With the ability to mix and match bulbs I can get any color I like.
3) Staged on and off. I can bring banks on in stages simulating sunrise and sunset.
I'm thinking of buying a Lumenbright Large reflector, a good 400W ballast and a good 12-14k bulb. I'll make a much smaller mounting rig and give it a try over one of the holes to see what it actually looks like. Lumenbright III's at 30" over the tank give a nice 3x3 square which is what I need. Why?
1) The maintenance will be alot less. Its going to be easier to clean th much smaller reflector and bulb weekly, and I wont have to clean the bracing.
2) Reliability. Its a much simpler setup. Only parts that can fail are bulb and ballast and both are much easier replaced.
3) Cost. Changing 3 $70 bulbs every 6 months is much better than 24 $22 bulbs every 9 months
4) I'll have shimmer again.
Downside:
1) Colors will not be as good. I wont have Actinic supplementation. If I go this route I will NOT add supplement lights, unless I want to dork around with some LED's.
2) Heat. Although I don't think its going to be that big of an issue in my room.
3) I'll look like an idiot blowing as much money as I already have on the high end fixtures just to mothball them after 9 months of use.
Would like to hear your guys comments. I'm afraid this might be a bit of the grass is greener on the other side, but the maintenance is beginning to be a pita issue. Its not like I'm willing to spend time on the tank, but spending as much time as I am on the lighting is a pain.... I'd rather spend it in the tank.
Give it some time...I did have a frustrating experience, but mine was with the 2G fixture, and much of it was not the ballast, but the fact that there were was the design flaw with spacers under the reflectors that caused the bulbs to pop out. 75% of the time was spent replacing the endcaps/reflectors, and I think this has been fixed in the 3G fixture. Also, they did provide the ballasts and endcaps shipped to me for free, so I didn't have to pay so that knocks out #4. I also think that you'll find you really miss having the sunrise/sunset.
As for the glass shields on the fixtures, I just ditched them. Since you move the fixture out of the way when you do maintenance, splashing isnt really a worry. So that takes care of #3.
Up to you, but since you have invested a lot of cash, I'd at least stick through the first 9 months, then see how you feel when it comes time for bulb replacement. IMO, sunrise/sunset >>> shimmer. I would miss this sweet T5 sunset look more than shimmer
Well, I'm waiting until my PAR meter comes in. I'm hoping in the next few weeks. Apogee is building it for me atm. My plan is to test par, compare it with some MH PAR, then compare it with your PAR Mcliffy. I want to see how much my braces, when dirty, are cutting out the par. If my par is right around yours then I'm probably going to try and figure out how to make maintenance easier and keep my fixtures. If my par is lower than yours substantially (and I have the sinking feeling it might be because of the braces) then I'm going to start looking at the MH's.
As far as the maintenance, its not the splashing when I'm working on the tank, its the splashing that accumulates in tiny amounts from the waters surface during the week. It dries on the glass and has to be scrubbed off. Its a PITA. I've tried re-aiming power heads but its not helping much. The amount of flow I have in my tank simply makes the top water somewhat turbulent. Its not like its splashing, but tiny little micro splashes that leap out of the water every so often in tiny droplets that adhear to the glass.
As far as the maintenance, its not the splashing when I'm working on the tank, its the splashing that accumulates in tiny amounts from the waters surface during the week. It dries on the glass and has to be scrubbed off. Its a PITA. I've tried re-aiming power heads but its not helping much. The amount of flow I have in my tank simply makes the top water somewhat turbulent. Its not like its splashing, but tiny little micro splashes that leap out of the water every so often in tiny droplets that adhear to the glass.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
Brutal.
jnarowe
New member
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN BOTHERING ME FOR SOME YEARS NOW. Every time I pay extra for the "better" quality stuff, whether in the hobby, for my house, etc., I always seem to get burned. I have bought top-end appliances and every one of them has had some sort of failure within the first two years. Really makes me mad.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
Isn't that the truth. When we remodeled our kitchen a few years ago I gave a perfectly good Maytag dishwasher to Habitat Restore and bough new KitchenAide appliances (except for the Wolf gas cooktop and Sub Zero fridge/freezer). Guess what, six months ago the cord that attaches to the door tensioner spring snapped. Okay we had the extended warranty. Then two weeks ago the bloody water valve stuck open and overflowed onto the wood floor. :eek2: Okay still covered by extended warranty but I had the job of pulling out warped floor boards and replacing them. GRRRR
Well, I do happen to think some "high end" appliances are worth it. I replaced my stainless GE dishwasher after it died with a Miele. The machine is a beast. Its even got its own disposal in the bottom. I tore out m okld 4 burner cooktop and replaced it with a much larger Kithenaid 5 burner. Again, a good choice.
I've learned more expensive is not always better for "machines". Better is better. A lot of times its more expensive, some times its not. Where ou get into trouble is when you buy it and canLt play with it first.
I've learned more expensive is not always better for "machines". Better is better. A lot of times its more expensive, some times its not. Where ou get into trouble is when you buy it and canLt play with it first.
jnarowe
New member
I bought an glass-top Amana oven/range and it is horrible. Really bad, no low on 3 of the burners, they sent a repairman who didn't fix it, and now they tell me I am on my own. I told them next time I will buy an import.
Got a Bosch dishwasher that really is excellent, but a litle small for a family. I had no idea they got their efficiency rating (per load) by making the darn thing smaller.
And my $2K fridge is a joke.
Got a Bosch dishwasher that really is excellent, but a litle small for a family. I had no idea they got their efficiency rating (per load) by making the darn thing smaller.
And my $2K fridge is a joke.
EnglishRebel
Retired Rebel Reefer
I have the Sub Zero 685 and really like it except for one thing -- it's a little on the noisy side when the freezer compressor is running.
Quick update... I had 6 fish come in via mail and all 6 died in transit./ It's been REALLY hot here and they didn't make it 
I'm also struggling with PH all of a sudden. The tangs have done such a good job there is NO algae left in the tank. So I'm seeing the PH drop down to 7.7 to 7.75 during the day then struggle and rise to 7.85 at night when the refugium with the chaeto kicks on. I'm Already dosing 2 part and alk is steady at 9.6 so I can't really add more alk to spike PH. I started dripping Kalk last night and that seemed to help as it moved ph up 0.10 with a very slow drip.
I ordered a PM Kalk reactor today and a solenoid from autotopoff.com to control the kalk dosing via my AC3 Pro. I'll drip kalk as topoff refill when I'm below 8.2 and ro/di otherwise. I'm worried about what its going to do to my alk and calcium levels though, I might have to turn those back a bit.
I also think it has to do with CO2 build up inside my fishroom. I'm not flushing as much air as I thought I would in the summer. The AC is on which is cooling the basement really well. I'm not having to dump air in to cool the tank. I'm going to set up the AC3 Pro to dump air for 5 minutes every 4 hours no matter what.
I'm also struggling with PH all of a sudden. The tangs have done such a good job there is NO algae left in the tank. So I'm seeing the PH drop down to 7.7 to 7.75 during the day then struggle and rise to 7.85 at night when the refugium with the chaeto kicks on. I'm Already dosing 2 part and alk is steady at 9.6 so I can't really add more alk to spike PH. I started dripping Kalk last night and that seemed to help as it moved ph up 0.10 with a very slow drip.
I ordered a PM Kalk reactor today and a solenoid from autotopoff.com to control the kalk dosing via my AC3 Pro. I'll drip kalk as topoff refill when I'm below 8.2 and ro/di otherwise. I'm worried about what its going to do to my alk and calcium levels though, I might have to turn those back a bit.
I also think it has to do with CO2 build up inside my fishroom. I'm not flushing as much air as I thought I would in the summer. The AC is on which is cooling the basement really well. I'm not having to dump air in to cool the tank. I'm going to set up the AC3 Pro to dump air for 5 minutes every 4 hours no matter what.
