$600 Per Polyp?!?!?

[Juan-Carlos]

Hey guys, 'Envy Oranges' are truely unique. Many have seen them personaly at my home. They are in no way similar to RPE's. And The photos on Reefenvy have not been photoshoped only cropped. I don't understand why there is dbout on if they are truely bright orange when so many people have seen them first hand.

I saw the picture from japan, and honestly although they look orange in that picture, they look more like bleached RPE's which will get an orange hue.

I've been doing this for too long for people to say they are common in some places. If I knew they where not rare they would not be so expensive.

I have seen many pictures of people saying they had OE's but have seen nothing that is. And I confidently say this because I see my Envy oranges everyday, and have had them for years. It's not that Envy oranges do not grow at all, but like most rare corals, they grow very slow, and that in turn is what makes them rare.

Twon, Zoa's have been a craze for a couple of years already, I find it unfair you saying that I, an individual, has screwed up the market.

Remember you guys set the market, PPE's a few years ago where pricey, and now there are new morphs. I used to sell Envy Oranges for $50... hobbysit made them what they are today, because it is obvious that they are rare and very diffrent from other palys. And that goes with any coral.

One more thing, Bill:

Think about what you are saying. I'm doing the hobby wrong? I think everyone would agree that hogging a coral all to your self and one friend is "bad for the hobby". God forbid you're tank crashes and your friend looses his frag.
That strain you have that no one ealse does, is gone forever. THAT is bad for the hobby. Many people have Envy Oranges, they have been spread around all over the US. They will live forever. Perhaps one day when they become more abundant they will go down in price. So please don't tell me what I do is wrong for this hobby.

You guys say as you wish, I have been more than nice trying to answer all your questions.


Kindest Regards,

-Jc
Reefenvy

 

[Juan-Carlos]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8140492#post8140492 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Snarkys
people have been known to post that reduculous crap and make some drama out of it then sell it somewhere else and suddenly $125 a polyp looks like a fantasic deal : )

not saying that's what hes doing but just a thought.

to be honest I'm not really sure why anyone cares what he charges. He's not "making" anyone pay it. if someone has $600 burning a hole in their pocket and wants a single polyp that never grows then by all means buy it, if not it will just sit there. Only thing that really happens is it makes him look bad to a substantial amount of his potential customers .

Hey,

No, there is no foul play here, and I agree with you, I don't understand why everyone gets so defensive about this issue. No one is forced to buy anything.

However, I don't feel offering a coral morph that NO ONE else sells makes me look bad. I sell many rare frags at reasonable prices. Everyone that orders from me is happy. Just because I sell ONE coral that is out of most peoples' league does not mean you guys should have negative feelings towards Reefenvy. On the contrary, I feel me offering a coral no one else does is a good thing.
I disagree with you on that point.


I have done nothing to you guys for you to be upset, I don't chop shop, I truely aquaculture all my frags. And I try to offer rare specimens most at bellow average priceing. I am not a mind less hobbyist, I do my part to conserve, I am active in my aquarium society and I try to help anyone I could.

Don't hate just because I offer something you cant afford.

Kindest Regards,

-Jc

 

[iCam]

Considering that things such as stress, water chemistry, and different lighting can change the look of a coral, how exactly do you all determine whether or not a certain zoanthid gets a certain name or not?

One of the main things that irritates me is that every time someone posts that they got such and such zoanthid, several people chime in that, no, they have the real deal and what this person has isn't the real thing. I am starting to think people just like to argue.

It'd be like if I anonymously ordered the "orange envy" zoanthid from Juan-Carlos, posted a photo that I had bought one from a different source, and then him telling me that what I have is not the real deal like he has (just using you as an example; nothing meant towards you by it ).

Sometimes I just don't understand why people get so rude with others and cut others down over stuff like zoanthid naming. It's not like these colonies are being genetically tested against eachother

 

[Juan-Carlos]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8140843#post8140843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by iCam
Considering that things such as stress, water chemistry, and different lighting can change the look of a coral, how exactly do you all determine whether or not a certain zoanthid gets a certain name or not?

One of the main things that irritates me is that every time someone posts that they got such and such zoanthid, several people chime in that, no, they have the real deal and what this person has isn't the real thing. I am starting to think people just like to argue.

It'd be like if I anonymously ordered the "orange envy" zoanthid from Juan-Carlos, posted a photo that I had bought one from a different source, and then him telling me that what I have is not the real deal like he has (just using you as an example; nothing meant towards you by it ).

Sometimes I just don't understand why people get so rude with others and cut others down over stuff like zoanthid naming. It's not like these colonies are being genetically tested against eachother

I agree, water params and lighting can change corals drastically.

I don't feel people just like to argue, although don't get me wrong, some do! But for the most part people are just trying to help and keep liniages straight.

Those that have the "Real deal" of what ever coral species... and By real deal I mean the morph of sps zoa etc that is desired and named. Those that have those real deals have more insight, they have the corals and know what they look like first hand. so they can clearly spot diffrences when they see other corals. I think most of us can tell if a purple acro frag is a purple monster frag or not.

Many people will go to a LFS buy a purple acro, and say "SCORE!! I have a whole purple monster colony." I really have not seen people being rude. If anything they are just helping the person and telling them what they realy have so they do not Miss-ID it.

In terms of Envy Oranges It is hard for most to determine whether or not an orangy RPE is an Envy Orange because not that many people have actually seen them Envy Oranges. Once you see them first hand it is plain to see what is what, especially since many hobbyisit know what RPE's look like.

Hope I cleared some of that up.

Take care,

-Jc

 

[jmkins]

for the price of about 2 "orange envy" polyps you could determine the genetic structure of what those polyps are. That is much more realistic of taxonomy, seeing as that is what biologists, biochemists, and geneticists use for taxonomy purposes nowadays.

Photographs are to be taken with skepticism nowadays because editing software is ubiquitous.

More than likely the colonies that are offered in Japan are of the same origin as those that are offered on reefenvy. JC, just because you think they are not from a photograph does not actually make them not.

In the past two years I've managed to pick up eagle eyes, fire and ice, bam bams, and a few others in colony form from LFS for under $40 a colony with at the least 20+ polyps.

JC, you charge a price/polyp for every zoa that you stock aside from the OE's. Right now I have about 100 polyps of bam bams and I would never consider it a $500 dollar colony. As a matter of fact I would consider them a nuisance right now that is going to over take my cheap $5 frag of green milli.

I gave up on zoa's when the whole name = money thing hit a year or so ago because I personally have found this to be nothing more than a greedy popularity contest. I have no problem getting sps frags for much less than $600. The most ridiculously priced sps frag goes for far less, and there are likely to be considerate locals after a few months that sell them for less than $50 a good sized frag.

 

[Snarkys]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8140646#post8140646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Juan-Carlos
Hey,

However, I don't feel offering a coral morph that NO ONE else sells makes me look bad.

i truly believe you should sell your corals for whatever you want to. if ya have a rare item and someone is willing to pay through the nose for it then by all means , you have two happy parties.

however , judging by this thread alone it does make ya look bad in many potential customers eyes. right or wrong that's pretty much the truth of it. only you can decide if drama like this thread is worth the $600 and good for your business.

/shrug

 

[Reno Reef]

This thread is fun!

 

[thebicyclecafe]

Selling a polyp for $600 doesn't encourage the purchase of captive grown corals. You are bringing less of this coral into the hobby for others, and that is by no means helping out the hobby. It's a nice looking coral and all, but for $600 I'd really want it to talk, do my laundry, or something spectacular...

 

[cowcio]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8206286#post8206286 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thebicyclecafe
Selling a polyp for $600 doesn't encourage the purchase of captive grown corals. You are bringing less of this coral into the hobby for others, and that is by no means helping out the hobby. It's a nice looking coral and all, but for $600 I'd really want it to talk, do my laundry, or something spectacular...

Personally, I'd rather purchase 12 large colonies of average zoanthids at 50 dollars a piece and have plenty left over to frag and GIVE away!

I have collected "rare" zoanthids for a little over a year now and I am now kicking myself for not purchasing a lot of nice looking, "average" colonies.







So to sum this thread up....

JC is trying to make this coral available for those that want to purchase it, even though he does not have many to sell, due to the slow growth of this coral. This way, he is not "hogging" the coral, but allowing others a fair chance at owning it.

Many people think that the price is outrageous, but the "fair" market price of this "rare" coral has been recognized. JC considers his coral to be "one of a kind" and one that "nobody else sells". If this is true, the prices are justified.



If you don't want to dish out the cash, wait a little while, prices do and will go down.

 

[ct_vol]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8140646#post8140646 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Juan-Carlos


Don't hate just because I offer something you cant afford.

Kindest Regards,

-Jc

LMAO Thats awesome... I agree whole-heartedly!!!

 

[hot4teacher]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8140548#post8140548 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Juan-Carlos
Hey guys, 'Envy Oranges' are truely unique. Many have seen them personaly at my home. They are in no way similar to RPE's. And The photos on Reefenvy have not been photoshoped only cropped. I don't understand why there is dbout on if they are truely bright orange when so many people have seen them first hand.

I saw the picture from japan, and honestly although they look orange in that picture, they look more like bleached RPE's which will get an orange hue.

I've been doing this for too long for people to say they are common in some places. If I knew they where not rare they would not be so expensive.

I have seen many pictures of people saying they had OE's but have seen nothing that is. And I confidently say this because I see my Envy oranges everyday, and have had them for years. It's not that Envy oranges do not grow at all, but like most rare corals, they grow very slow, and that in turn is what makes them rare.

Twon, Zoa's have been a craze for a couple of years already, I find it unfair you saying that I, an individual, has screwed up the market.

Remember you guys set the market, PPE's a few years ago where pricey, and now there are new morphs. I used to sell Envy Oranges for $50... hobbysit made them what they are today, because it is obvious that they are rare and very diffrent from other palys. And that goes with any coral.

One more thing, Bill:

Think about what you are saying. I'm doing the hobby wrong? I think everyone would agree that hogging a coral all to your self and one friend is "bad for the hobby". God forbid you're tank crashes and your friend looses his frag.
That strain you have that no one ealse does, is gone forever. THAT is bad for the hobby. Many people have Envy Oranges, they have been spread around all over the US. They will live forever. Perhaps one day when they become more abundant they will go down in price. So please don't tell me what I do is wrong for this hobby.

You guys say as you wish, I have been more than nice trying to answer all your questions.


Kindest Regards,

-Jc
Reefenvy

Not sure if these were what you were refering to...

I would love a professional or someone with photography skills to take a few pics in the same tank as the Orange Envy pictures. In person they are as orange as the "Chevy Orange" they used to paint the engine blocks with. These pictures certainly don't do this colony justice.

Dana

Camera: Fuji Finepix S5100
65gal tank
Lighting: Coralife 4x96W PC (2 "white" and two "blue")

No flash

With flash

I bought these in Okinawa for $35. There were roughly 25-30 polyps when I first purchased it. I bought it because they looked cool and were cheap (as are all zoos at that store)...

Are they Orange Envy's? Doesn't matter to me, I like them regardless.



Personal opinion below:
If they were indeed Orange Envy's, would I have them for sale for $600 per polyp?...not sure...What is this colony worth to me? $35. However, it would be hard for me to say 'no' to someone asking for a few polyps and giving me a fistfull of cash.

It leads me to think of supply and demand, and other precious and rare items found on this planet.
If everybody had one, they wouldn't be rare. If everybody had one, they wouldn't be so costly...but the reality is, like with other objects such as diamonds, breeds of dogs, rare art...you pay for something not everyone can have and for something not readily available. We'd all be driving Ferrari's with our French Bulldogs in the front seat while they wear their diamond studded collars, and the Mona Lisa in the trunk!

 

[jessiesgrrl]

All I know for sure is that someone is smoking some serious crack if they think I am going to pay $600 for a polyp of something.
:lol:
Laurie

 

[Kigs]

I have the same zoos that hot4teacher posted and also wondering if those are the "orange envy" zoos. I got mine for 25 bucks at a local LFS. I bought it because it was bleached white with orange skirts...looked super cool then.

 

[aquarius77]

hot4teacher,

How long have you had them and how much have they grown in that time?

From reading this post the 'Envy Oranges' do not grow very much at all.

 

[thebicyclecafe]

I am determined to beat the monopoly on these... man $600? I'm decently fluent in Japanese and on my trips there.... if I can find my way into one of these shops in Okinawa.... I promise I'll bring a colony back and everyone can have a polyp for.... $10! Screw that $600/polyp deal man!
If it's slow growing AND rare, then everyone needs a piece to propagate and to grow out, right?

 

[hot4teacher]

Aquarius,

I'd have to pull out that rock and count them again. I want to say I had 36 or 37 polyps when I first got it. I remember looking at them when they were $100 per polyp and saying, "dam, that's a lot of money on that rock if they are actually Envy Orange."

I can't really speculate if any have truely grown. They certainly don't grow at the rate of my other zoos! I definitely think they look "fuller" than when I first got them, but that rock doesn't appear to be overloaded with them. As with many pretty zoos, the coolest ones seem to grow the slowest.

Dana

 

[aquarius77]

i can count at least that many on it(roughly) Depends on how long you have had them....if they arent growing you might have the oranges?

 

[Dastank]

IMO weather Juan-Carlos likes it or not, we do see them here in Japan on occasion and I don't believe there bleached RPE's. They are quite reasonable like Dana said.

Love to see all the customer service/salesman skills demonstrated in this thread. Makes me want to run out and buy stuff!

 

[SteveOhh]

Just based on Juan-Carlos's responses to others, I will never buy anything from him. Common knowledge in business is that you don't flame & slam your customers, whether they are current or future customers.

The prices on your stuff are absolutely ridiclious................let me see $600 for one polyp of a coral that hasn't grown in 4 years or $600 on a complete 120 gallon used system.....................doesn't take a brilliant man to make the right choice......

Steve

 

[miwoodar]

I've been asking entirely too little for my zoanthid frags. I'm selling them for more like 50 cents per polyp.