7,000 litres Natural reef tank - Thailand

[griseum]

Sorry to see/hear that Sirichok...
I can only offer suggestions, without knowing more about your parameters and dosing. If the ozone through the protein skimmer was effecting the mangroves then I would assume that dosing ozone just by way of the Ozone generator might cause the same damage.
Another thought... If the bacteria extract was removed from Mangrove Roots then perhaps it is outcompeting the mangrove trees in the competition and metabolism of Nitrogen and Phosphorous.
Lastly, if the various methods of filtration like mud, socks, bacteria, plenum, etc. then the mangroves may not be receiving the same growth-limiting nutrients.

Just as the green algae has been "disappearing" i hope that your mangroves don't do the same
:-( :-( :-(

 

[sirichok]

Sorry to see/hear that Sirichok...
I can only offer suggestions, without knowing more about your parameters and dosing. If the ozone through the protein skimmer was effecting the mangroves then I would assume that dosing ozone just by way of the Ozone generator might cause the same damage.
Another thought... If the bacteria extract was removed from Mangrove Roots then perhaps it is outcompeting the mangrove trees in the competition and metabolism of Nitrogen and Phosphorous.
Lastly, if the various methods of filtration like mud, socks, bacteria, plenum, etc. then the mangroves may not be receiving the same growth-limiting nutrients.

Just as the green algae has been "disappearing" i hope that your mangroves don't do the same
:-( :-( :-(

Thanks Griseum .I have stopped using bacteria extract to see whether it does have any effect on the mangroves . I did some research but it seemed to me that the effect of ozone on the mangroves would cause the leaves to be burnt not leaving any white deposits such as in this case . But just for precaution , I have switched to using ozone through an ozone reactor .

 

[griseum]

Ahh yes. My apologies.
Where I wrote "ozone generator" I should have put "ozone reactor".
But in that case, there are extra precautions that the ozone pass through before entering the system. Is that correct?
One other thing I was trying to say was that your bioload is very low right now. Comparing the nutrient-load to the biomass of Mangrove trees, and I believe that the biomass of manfroves does not havr enough available "food" to sustain them all.
Perhaps temporarily adding "plant food" in the mud with mangroves will provide the trees with the nutrients they need while your system matures. With the input of fish and corals, and their associated waste products as well as feeding and detritus, the "plant food" may then be removed or discontinued. Something similar to the products that Freshwater Planted Tank hobbyists use. (Takashi Amano has an astounding product line)

Lastly, in regards to the mangrove mud sump, could there be a lack of available CO2? Maybe a silly question with the current atmospheric concentration of CO2 (LOL). I do not recall if you mentioned what type of source water is used in the sprinkler system, as well as how often they spray daily (?)
I use RO water as this was what has been successful for many others, and so far myself included.
Maybe the sprinkler duration, interval and intensity should be experimented with. IMO, I'd try reducing all three variables first.

**EDIT** After posting this originally, and then rereading your most recent reply Sirichok, I see you wrote "leaving deposits" on the mangroves. Now that I see that, I would immediately assume that the sprinkler source water is hard water with some mineral content. When the sprinklers are on, similar to showers and sinks in some regions of the southern US, there can be some mineralization, or calcification, on nearby surfaces in the home.
If you could give us the proper name for the mangroves that may help as well. Red mangroves and Black mangroves use different ways of handling the chlorides in the waters in which they live. Red mangroves use suberization, which is a waxy substance that coats the roots and parts of the tree in order to simply keep salts from ever entering. Black mangroves, which occupy a niche that is a bit less aquatic and further inland, use a different mechanism such as depositing excess salts on the leaves. **EDIT**


I truly hope something I offered helps you find a solution. Keeps us updated. The mangrove sump is MY favorite feature in your build !!
Best wishes!

 

[dave.m]

I know nothing about growing mangroves other than what I've read, but a white film left on the leaves may be minerals left from the spray water. Also, as griseum has pointed out, your tank is not generating enough nutrients yet to feed the mangroves. Some sort of fertilizer is probably required.

Dave.M

 

[sirichok]

I know nothing about growing mangroves other than what I've read, but a white film left on the leaves may be minerals left from the spray water. Also, as griseum has pointed out, your tank is not generating enough nutrients yet to feed the mangroves. Some sort of fertilizer is probably required.

Dave.M

Dave but I used RODI water to spray and it never happened before so I am still confused to the real cause of it .

 

[mng777777]

Did you acclimate the mangroves carefully to your salt water? Mangroves export the excess salt from their normal salinity through their leaves which will look like white powder. The salt will burn the leaves of not removed. I assume you know this because of the misting system you've employed but it's good to rule out all variables. Also, they can die off from shock if they're not acclimated.

 

[k4ndyk1ng]

Did you acclimate the mangroves carefully to your salt water? Mangroves export the excess salt from their normal salinity through their leaves which will look like white powder. The salt will burn the leaves of not removed. I assume you know this because of the misting system you've employed but it's good to rule out all variables. Also, they can die off from shock if they're not acclimated.

+mangroves are very sensitive

 

[TheBookWorm]

Subscribing.

 

[Cutiewitbooty]

Following! Beautiful set up!

 

[sirichok]

Ahh yes. My apologies.
Where I wrote "ozone generator" I should have put "ozone reactor".
But in that case, there are extra precautions that the ozone pass through before entering the system. Is that correct?
One other thing I was trying to say was that your bioload is very low right now. Comparing the nutrient-load to the biomass of Mangrove trees, and I believe that the biomass of manfroves does not havr enough available "food" to sustain them all.
Perhaps temporarily adding "plant food" in the mud with mangroves will provide the trees with the nutrients they need while your system matures. With the input of fish and corals, and their associated waste products as well as feeding and detritus, the "plant food" may then be removed or discontinued. Something similar to the products that Freshwater Planted Tank hobbyists use. (Takashi Amano has an astounding product line)

Lastly, in regards to the mangrove mud sump, could there be a lack of available CO2? Maybe a silly question with the current atmospheric concentration of CO2 (LOL). I do not recall if you mentioned what type of source water is used in the sprinkler system, as well as how often they spray daily (?)
I use RO water as this was what has been successful for many others, and so far myself included.
Maybe the sprinkler duration, interval and intensity should be experimented with. IMO, I'd try reducing all three variables first.

**EDIT** After posting this originally, and then rereading your most recent reply Sirichok, I see you wrote "leaving deposits" on the mangroves. Now that I see that, I would immediately assume that the sprinkler source water is hard water with some mineral content. When the sprinklers are on, similar to showers and sinks in some regions of the southern US, there can be some mineralization, or calcification, on nearby surfaces in the home.
If you could give us the proper name for the mangroves that may help as well. Red mangroves and Black mangroves use different ways of handling the chlorides in the waters in which they live. Red mangroves use suberization, which is a waxy substance that coats the roots and parts of the tree in order to simply keep salts from ever entering. Black mangroves, which occupy a niche that is a bit less aquatic and further inland, use a different mechanism such as depositing excess salts on the leaves. **EDIT**


I truly hope something I offered helps you find a solution. Keeps us updated. The mangrove sump is MY favorite feature in your build !!
Best wishes!

The proper name for the type of mangroves we are using in the sump is Rhizophora aciculate BL.

 

[sirichok]

Following! Beautiful set up!

Thanks for following .

 

[sirichok]

After one month coralline algae started to cover dead rock .

 

[sirichok]

Lastest !!

I have now decided to increase the bio load to help mangroves by adding more fish and also increasing the frequency of feeding.
Also decided to add some LPS coral to absorb the excess calcium in the system( due to Kalwasser ATO) as it is now over 500 with KH at around 12 and PH 8.4
I also discovered that the magnesium level is lower than normal (1080)due to being used up my mangroves. So I will have to slowly dose Mg so that it reaches the level of 1300.

 

[sirichok]

I finally found the reason for my mangroves dying . It is the result of aphids laying eggs and eating the leaves causing powdery like deposits . Just trying to find way of getting rid of aphids without killing fish and corals

 

[Dapg8gt]

Ladybugs eat aphids =).. Not sure if you would want to introduce them in the mangrove room though, but I wouldn't see them causing harm.. There is also a plant extract called neem oil that works pretty well but it's oil based so I'd say that's a no no since they are misted over the water..

That's a crummy predicament as now your going to need to find a permanent way to curb them in the future.

 

[sirichok]

Ladybugs eat aphids =).. Not sure if you would want to introduce them in the mangrove room though, but I wouldn't see them causing harm.. There is also a plant extract called neem oil that works pretty well but it's oil based so I'd say that's a no no since they are misted over the water..

That's a crummy predicament as now your going to need to find a permanent way to curb them in the future.

Yes I did not foresee such a problem especially open air reef tank during rainy season . I can introduce ladybugs but I can't make them stay so I am still pondering what option do I have apart from spraying with aphids repellant . I am thinking of covering the top sump with mosquito like net !

 

[sirichok]

After treating mangroves with pyroligneous acid to get rid of aphids , the mangroves are in a better shape right now. Have to wait and see whether they will thrive again.

 

[dave.m]

I would be more concerned with the effects on your aquarium. From the few references I have found on wood vinegar, pyroligneous acid is known to be toxic for humans both to breathe and to handle, slightly toxic to fish and very toxic to many plants if used in too high a concentration. What effects it might have in a marine aquarium have yet to be documented...

Dave.M

 

[sirichok]

I would be more concerned with the effects on your aquarium. From the few references I have found on wood vinegar, pyroligneous acid is known to be toxic for humans both to breathe and to handle, slightly toxic to fish and very toxic to many plants if used in too high a concentration. What effects it might have in a marine aquarium have yet to be documented...

Dave.M

Thanks , I will try to use as little as possible and is contemplating on putting net around the sump to avoid aphids.

 

[Boom]

Got warm days and cooler nights lately? I'm suspecting powdery or downy mildew. Please see Wikipedias explanation of powdery mildew and its treatment with milk. As a landscaper I have dealt with powdery mildew with many different outdoor plants in high moisture and low air circulation situations. See also www.organicgardening.com about treatment with milk or baking soda solution. Some plants and shrubs are more susceptible than others.