700 gallon tank, or how i spent my daughters inheritance
- Thread starter BlueCorn
- Start date
Reefski's
Active member
three days, wow, i hope people can learn from my mistakes, and successes too. so far more failure than success, at least that is how it feels right now.
today i just got all the parts to hook a RO membrane into my top off water production system. let's see what that does for water quality.
Carl
today i just got all the parts to hook a RO membrane into my top off water production system. let's see what that does for water quality.
Carl
kinlayan
New member
http://www.pnas.org/content/99/13/8725.full
some info on this disease , it may not be what is affecting your corals it may just be high PO4 and nitrates but it could also be a strain of this perhaps?
some info on this disease , it may not be what is affecting your corals it may just be high PO4 and nitrates but it could also be a strain of this perhaps?
Reefski's
Active member
some really good news and some bad news today.
first off my Solar system made 60 KW today.
i got the RO unit hooked into the water purification system and changed all the prefilters.
so now the mains water is filtered through 25 micron, 1 micron, AC, RO, and finally separate Kati Ani Di units.
tds out of the RO before DI is 14ppm.
for the first time ever coming out of the DI is Zero
yeah!
after 4 days of no top off water the system salinity was 0.0265 as best i could read the refractometer. i have started to add the new RO/DI water to the system it is about 50 gallons down.
after 4 days of no top off water addition and no Lanthanum Chloride use the PO4 tested at 0.0
i still can't quite believe it. i will retest again in the morning.
now i will start using ASW for a while and see if that makes a difference as well and keep changing the AC regularly.
the bad news is it may have come too late for the Elegance Coral.
the Elegance has totally separated from it's skeleton.
it's kind of like some of my teachers said about me when i was in school, great potential but not living up to the promise. maybe that will change now. how long might it take to see it turn around?
first off my Solar system made 60 KW today.
i got the RO unit hooked into the water purification system and changed all the prefilters.
so now the mains water is filtered through 25 micron, 1 micron, AC, RO, and finally separate Kati Ani Di units.
tds out of the RO before DI is 14ppm.
for the first time ever coming out of the DI is Zero
yeah!
after 4 days of no top off water the system salinity was 0.0265 as best i could read the refractometer. i have started to add the new RO/DI water to the system it is about 50 gallons down.
after 4 days of no top off water addition and no Lanthanum Chloride use the PO4 tested at 0.0
i still can't quite believe it. i will retest again in the morning.
now i will start using ASW for a while and see if that makes a difference as well and keep changing the AC regularly.
the bad news is it may have come too late for the Elegance Coral.
the Elegance has totally separated from it's skeleton.
it's kind of like some of my teachers said about me when i was in school, great potential but not living up to the promise. maybe that will change now. how long might it take to see it turn around?
melev
Well-known member
I just don't know Carl.
You may keep the Elegance near or on the skeleton or some other rock rubble, in a container where it can't blow away. Maybe you'll get lucky and part of it will attach to something.
Have you taken a water sample and asked Ali to verify your readings?
You may keep the Elegance near or on the skeleton or some other rock rubble, in a container where it can't blow away. Maybe you'll get lucky and part of it will attach to something.
Have you taken a water sample and asked Ali to verify your readings?
Reefski's
Active member
in the next couple of weeks i will be getting a water sample tested with AWT, Aquarium Water Testing service.
i would have thought if the elegance was going to separate from it's skeleton it would have been when it was in the higher flow in the display tank. it has been in the lower flow of the garage tank for a few weeks now.
no tissue has been lost yet, just separated from the skeleton.
Carl
i would have thought if the elegance was going to separate from it's skeleton it would have been when it was in the higher flow in the display tank. it has been in the lower flow of the garage tank for a few weeks now.
no tissue has been lost yet, just separated from the skeleton.
Carl
Steve1714
New member
Hay Carl,
Thanks for the tour of the system today, Yep there is allot of potential with that setup, unfortunately you have suffered form 2 possibly 3 major septate and combined events that have presented you with quite a challenge to solve exactly what happened.
I was thinking over all that we disused about your system and events that may have triggered the problems;
I have made the fallowing list of potential problems I saw, I know not all hobbyists will agree with me and there may be some that think the exact opposite, as for my background in this most if not all of my experience has come from running a 1000-1200 gallon outdoor coral farm since 1998, and all the problems that came with such a setup. I am not a scientist and I will not argue if you disagree, think of this as “brain storming†for the potential problems that occurred and there posible solution, all to help out my good friend Carl.
Carl, I know you know allot of this already, but for those who don't I have tried to cover every possible thing to look at..
first off, I think you have solved 80-90% of the systems problems with the RO unit lowering the TDS to 12ppm, this also slowed the flow of water through the DI resin to allow it enough contact time to completely remove the remaining pollutants. All you need to do now is just keep your TDS at 0.
1) One issue i think that needs to be addressed is the flow in between the powerful surges, it seems to be this, that allowed the junk that got kicked up from changing out the sand bed to settle on the corals and injure the already stressed tissue (caused from the spikes of PO4 and other tap water chemicals that got into the system from the malfunction of the stand alone DI filter) Now, you have more than enough water moving through the system, it is just the way it is too dispersed and not used effectively, Try experimenting with reducers and some elbows to speed up the flow out of the nozzles and point them into an area of large water volume in such a way to circulate the water around that center overflow in the tank. Not to brag but my whole 600gallon tank / system is circulated by a mere 25gallons a minute pushed through a 1/2" diameter nozzle, all be it, this nozzle is the output of a 1 1/2" mixing eductor that multiplies the water moved by a factor of 5 or 125GPM of flow.
2) Another thing is to check your calculations on the amount and concentration of lanthum chloride you have been using and make sure it wasn't overdosed, in the case of overdosing, it could possibly cause some sort of adverse synthetically low level of PO4 in the system much like that seen from using too much GFO for the first time, or vodka or zeovit, which can cause some if not all SPS to lighten or bleach out. You may have also over dosed the buffer and this could have caused the tips on the SPS to burn and possible tissue loss on the monti-caps so check those numbers also.
3) Another possibility based on the fact that most of the SPS that died or lost the most tissue were also in areas that got the most intense light from the summer sun, this could be due to the internal overheating due to periods of low to stagnant flow coupled with the strong brown pigmentation due to the higher than normal PO4 levels. Increased flow and the lowering of the PO4 levels would reduce the chances of this to happen.
4)that copper Hose fitting connected from the storage tank to the system, possible copper contamination due to flakes of hose fitting corroding and falling into the water during the water change. Even though this metal is not in contact with the water 24/7 it still gets intermittent contact with salt water and has the potential to cause a problem, I would replace it with plastic and eliminate the danger. The pump being a koi pond pump is probably not a problem, however it may be a good idea to open the volute and check for signs of corrosion if you want to be certain.
5) this one is kinda of a long shot but something to think about, Your water change may have introduced a nasty hydroid or disease into the system from the NSW, this probably multiplied exponentially due to the high nutrient levels in the system acting as another irritant to the corals tissue. If you want to continue using this NSW a quick solution would be to do something to sterilize it as you are doing the water change by slowly running it through a powerful UV sterilizer or ozone reactor and then carbon before it inters the system.
6) possible pH issues, try to barrow someones pH meeter and check the values at different times of the day and during the addition of any buffers or other suspect chemicals. Always be careful and slowly add buffers to an area of high flow away from corals. Run the light over that tank in the garage with all the plants in it 24 hr a day, this will help reduce the nutrients and stabilize the pH. If you are worried about the other fish not sleeping in the near by tank just put up a partition or reflective sheet to block the light from hitting there tank. The skimmer in my opinion doesn't have a large enough reaction chamber for a system of your size. This could cause problems in that it cannot blow off the excess of CO2 in the water fast enough thus leading to chronic low pH. If possible at least try to pipe in fresh outside air to the air intakes on your existing skimmer. As far as the nutrient export of that skimmer it will be sufficient if the internal neck is cleaned more often and the fact you have cut off the continuous supply of pollutants entering the system from the top off water.
7)As for the idea of connecting that 1200 gallon storage tank to the system to help stabilize it by increasing the water volume from 1700 gallons to almost 3000 gallons, I think it is a bad idea. That tank is not insulated and is buried in the ground this could lead to having to use allot of heaters in the winter, you will need allot more chemicals to make changes, Water changes would haft to be twice the size they are now to make any impact. Your skimmer would defiantly be undersized, as would your calcium reactor(when you start using it again). It would further complicate an already complex setup.
8)Get grounding probes in those tanks, and GFCI outlets on all potential electrical hazards. You may have an accident like a halide fixture falling in the water and if that happened you don't want the current to run through you and then trip the GFCI or worse run through you and eventually trip the circuit breaker, especially with those play-full dogs running around that can be very clumsy.
I think that covers most of it, don't be discouraged by this list for if I were to list the good things you have designed into the system already that list would be a hundred page novel. Most of the things listed above are simply minor adjustments and won't tank much time or effort to do.
the next few months things will start to recover and before you know it you will be writing up a summery for TOTM.
just take it slow and be patient in correcting system parameters.
Steve G
Thanks for the tour of the system today, Yep there is allot of potential with that setup, unfortunately you have suffered form 2 possibly 3 major septate and combined events that have presented you with quite a challenge to solve exactly what happened.
I was thinking over all that we disused about your system and events that may have triggered the problems;
I have made the fallowing list of potential problems I saw, I know not all hobbyists will agree with me and there may be some that think the exact opposite, as for my background in this most if not all of my experience has come from running a 1000-1200 gallon outdoor coral farm since 1998, and all the problems that came with such a setup. I am not a scientist and I will not argue if you disagree, think of this as “brain storming†for the potential problems that occurred and there posible solution, all to help out my good friend Carl.
Carl, I know you know allot of this already, but for those who don't I have tried to cover every possible thing to look at..
first off, I think you have solved 80-90% of the systems problems with the RO unit lowering the TDS to 12ppm, this also slowed the flow of water through the DI resin to allow it enough contact time to completely remove the remaining pollutants. All you need to do now is just keep your TDS at 0.
1) One issue i think that needs to be addressed is the flow in between the powerful surges, it seems to be this, that allowed the junk that got kicked up from changing out the sand bed to settle on the corals and injure the already stressed tissue (caused from the spikes of PO4 and other tap water chemicals that got into the system from the malfunction of the stand alone DI filter) Now, you have more than enough water moving through the system, it is just the way it is too dispersed and not used effectively, Try experimenting with reducers and some elbows to speed up the flow out of the nozzles and point them into an area of large water volume in such a way to circulate the water around that center overflow in the tank. Not to brag but my whole 600gallon tank / system is circulated by a mere 25gallons a minute pushed through a 1/2" diameter nozzle, all be it, this nozzle is the output of a 1 1/2" mixing eductor that multiplies the water moved by a factor of 5 or 125GPM of flow.
2) Another thing is to check your calculations on the amount and concentration of lanthum chloride you have been using and make sure it wasn't overdosed, in the case of overdosing, it could possibly cause some sort of adverse synthetically low level of PO4 in the system much like that seen from using too much GFO for the first time, or vodka or zeovit, which can cause some if not all SPS to lighten or bleach out. You may have also over dosed the buffer and this could have caused the tips on the SPS to burn and possible tissue loss on the monti-caps so check those numbers also.
3) Another possibility based on the fact that most of the SPS that died or lost the most tissue were also in areas that got the most intense light from the summer sun, this could be due to the internal overheating due to periods of low to stagnant flow coupled with the strong brown pigmentation due to the higher than normal PO4 levels. Increased flow and the lowering of the PO4 levels would reduce the chances of this to happen.
4)that copper Hose fitting connected from the storage tank to the system, possible copper contamination due to flakes of hose fitting corroding and falling into the water during the water change. Even though this metal is not in contact with the water 24/7 it still gets intermittent contact with salt water and has the potential to cause a problem, I would replace it with plastic and eliminate the danger. The pump being a koi pond pump is probably not a problem, however it may be a good idea to open the volute and check for signs of corrosion if you want to be certain.
5) this one is kinda of a long shot but something to think about, Your water change may have introduced a nasty hydroid or disease into the system from the NSW, this probably multiplied exponentially due to the high nutrient levels in the system acting as another irritant to the corals tissue. If you want to continue using this NSW a quick solution would be to do something to sterilize it as you are doing the water change by slowly running it through a powerful UV sterilizer or ozone reactor and then carbon before it inters the system.
6) possible pH issues, try to barrow someones pH meeter and check the values at different times of the day and during the addition of any buffers or other suspect chemicals. Always be careful and slowly add buffers to an area of high flow away from corals. Run the light over that tank in the garage with all the plants in it 24 hr a day, this will help reduce the nutrients and stabilize the pH. If you are worried about the other fish not sleeping in the near by tank just put up a partition or reflective sheet to block the light from hitting there tank. The skimmer in my opinion doesn't have a large enough reaction chamber for a system of your size. This could cause problems in that it cannot blow off the excess of CO2 in the water fast enough thus leading to chronic low pH. If possible at least try to pipe in fresh outside air to the air intakes on your existing skimmer. As far as the nutrient export of that skimmer it will be sufficient if the internal neck is cleaned more often and the fact you have cut off the continuous supply of pollutants entering the system from the top off water.
7)As for the idea of connecting that 1200 gallon storage tank to the system to help stabilize it by increasing the water volume from 1700 gallons to almost 3000 gallons, I think it is a bad idea. That tank is not insulated and is buried in the ground this could lead to having to use allot of heaters in the winter, you will need allot more chemicals to make changes, Water changes would haft to be twice the size they are now to make any impact. Your skimmer would defiantly be undersized, as would your calcium reactor(when you start using it again). It would further complicate an already complex setup.
8)Get grounding probes in those tanks, and GFCI outlets on all potential electrical hazards. You may have an accident like a halide fixture falling in the water and if that happened you don't want the current to run through you and then trip the GFCI or worse run through you and eventually trip the circuit breaker, especially with those play-full dogs running around that can be very clumsy.
I think that covers most of it, don't be discouraged by this list for if I were to list the good things you have designed into the system already that list would be a hundred page novel. Most of the things listed above are simply minor adjustments and won't tank much time or effort to do.
the next few months things will start to recover and before you know it you will be writing up a summery for TOTM.
just take it slow and be patient in correcting system parameters.
Steve G
Last edited:
melev
Well-known member
Hey Steve, thanks for chiming in. I love your green house tank that you built.
I never thought about pH the entire time I was there; it isn't a parameter I worry about with my own system and that could be a good call.
Cleaning the skimmer is something I think everyone should do often. I know Carl wants to get away from it entirely, but I believe they are a huge asset to a tank. If something goes wrong, they are there as an emergency safety net, imo. Feeding it fresh air via some tubing does work, as others have done it - especially on the east coast where it is so cold for many months; they have to seal their homes tight and the pH drops with the CO2 buildup within.
Copper/brass fittings - any and all should be removed. I didn't see that one, but completely agree.
Grounding probes & GFCI outlets - good idea. Carl, if you watch Ebay, you can buy a bunch of the outlets cheaply. A few years ago, I bought 10 or 12 of them for $80 shipped. They are the kind with a small green LED light on the face so you know the outlet is live. Buying them at Home Depot will run about $20 each. A ground probe in each container is a very good way to keep yourself safe. You can even make them yourself with wiring, and a titanium bicycle spoke. The titanium rod goes in the water, a single strand of wire (18 gauge) goes to the ground screw of the coverplate or to the ground prong of a three pronged outlet. The other prongs are simply ignored. The ground screw is the cheapest solution.
Steve really looked hard at your system, which is great. He may have nailed the issue with the flow, low flow, and sandbed changes, coupled with your water problems. When I was there, I was really impressed with what I saw, but I didn't really try to know what you were doing specifically. Since you liked using NSW and I know others in CA do, I don't have any reason to think it is a bad idea; I don't have any experience with that whatsoever as I'm landlocked with high-priced buckets of salt.
I buy them when they are on sale or the LFS has a anniversary event, or try to win them at club events whenever possible.
The same thing goes for making your own water with Kati/Ani. Odds are there is a flow rate that you must follow, but it isn't something I know anything about. I do have a friend that sells it, but that's all I know about it. Running it after the RO system at the slow rate of 1g every 14 mins (100gpd) sounds like it will work much more effectively.
This is why I'm so glad Steve went over to help you isolate the problems. When I was there, I was your guest and got to see how you run your tank. You are doing things much differently than I do, but that doesn't mean you aren't doing it correctly. In this hobby, there are many ways to accomplish the same thing, so I was trying to learn from your setup why it works and how it works. This is the primary reason I wouldn't tell you to do things differently. That being said, as problems surfaced over the past month or so, I wanted try to help you solve them if I could.
Like Steve said, your system is different and he's probably right: it needs a few tweaks to get it working great again.
Btw, have you been to his greenhouse set up yet? He uses shade cloth, where your system doesn't. Maybe you could do some PAR measurements over his corals to see what the differences may be.
I never thought about pH the entire time I was there; it isn't a parameter I worry about with my own system and that could be a good call.
Cleaning the skimmer is something I think everyone should do often. I know Carl wants to get away from it entirely, but I believe they are a huge asset to a tank. If something goes wrong, they are there as an emergency safety net, imo. Feeding it fresh air via some tubing does work, as others have done it - especially on the east coast where it is so cold for many months; they have to seal their homes tight and the pH drops with the CO2 buildup within.
Copper/brass fittings - any and all should be removed. I didn't see that one, but completely agree.
Grounding probes & GFCI outlets - good idea. Carl, if you watch Ebay, you can buy a bunch of the outlets cheaply. A few years ago, I bought 10 or 12 of them for $80 shipped. They are the kind with a small green LED light on the face so you know the outlet is live. Buying them at Home Depot will run about $20 each. A ground probe in each container is a very good way to keep yourself safe. You can even make them yourself with wiring, and a titanium bicycle spoke. The titanium rod goes in the water, a single strand of wire (18 gauge) goes to the ground screw of the coverplate or to the ground prong of a three pronged outlet. The other prongs are simply ignored. The ground screw is the cheapest solution.
Steve really looked hard at your system, which is great. He may have nailed the issue with the flow, low flow, and sandbed changes, coupled with your water problems. When I was there, I was really impressed with what I saw, but I didn't really try to know what you were doing specifically. Since you liked using NSW and I know others in CA do, I don't have any reason to think it is a bad idea; I don't have any experience with that whatsoever as I'm landlocked with high-priced buckets of salt.
I buy them when they are on sale or the LFS has a anniversary event, or try to win them at club events whenever possible.The same thing goes for making your own water with Kati/Ani. Odds are there is a flow rate that you must follow, but it isn't something I know anything about. I do have a friend that sells it, but that's all I know about it. Running it after the RO system at the slow rate of 1g every 14 mins (100gpd) sounds like it will work much more effectively.
This is why I'm so glad Steve went over to help you isolate the problems. When I was there, I was your guest and got to see how you run your tank. You are doing things much differently than I do, but that doesn't mean you aren't doing it correctly. In this hobby, there are many ways to accomplish the same thing, so I was trying to learn from your setup why it works and how it works. This is the primary reason I wouldn't tell you to do things differently. That being said, as problems surfaced over the past month or so, I wanted try to help you solve them if I could.
Like Steve said, your system is different and he's probably right: it needs a few tweaks to get it working great again.
Btw, have you been to his greenhouse set up yet? He uses shade cloth, where your system doesn't. Maybe you could do some PAR measurements over his corals to see what the differences may be.
Reefski's
Active member
update-
Steve--thank you so much for your insights and expertise. Steve has an amazing outside self contained coral bluehouse.
Steve has very tame hand fed Vlamingi tangs and a few other fish. it is really all about the corals.
since i got the tds levels to zero out of the ro/di unit the PO4 has been the lowest ever. i haven't used lanthanum chloride in two weeks.
post RO tds is 5-6 and 0 after the DI, yahoo.
the tank water has mostly tested about 0.08. but then three days ago went down to 0.05ppm and today tested at 0.04ppm.
to think most of the problems may have been the crappy top off water all along... that is fantastic now.
i also added elbows to some of the closed loop returns to direct the water in a more cyclonic fashion.
i have added a little egg crate to give a little more shade to the tank. Steve's system has lower PAR values than my tank.
i don't think the PH is an issue.
i maintain alkalinity with daily additions of soda carbonate or sodium bicarbonate.
pH stays about 8.4-8.5 and is very stable.
dKH is about 11.
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1350
i haven't measured nitrates in a couple of weeks. it was about 15-20
i guess this is the next thing to work on. i have not measured the city water for nitrates, i will do that tomorrow. the Hanna tester doesn't work on saltwater but will work on city water.
i am making ASW right now to swap out up to 400 gallons over the next couple weeks. that may help dilute anything that came in the top off water that i don't want and isn't measurable.
that does present a bit of a dilemma though. if things get better should i start using the NSW again? i really don't want to stop as it is soo much cheaper. but if it isn't good of course i will spend the money for ASW mix. but how will i know?
i am still running the skimmer and it is producing a dark green/black skimmate.
how do you know you need a skimmer? just because it takes out stuff doesn't mean if your tank is set up right all that stuff wouldn't become food for something in the tank. something that would grow and breed and feed the corals and fish and give more diversity to the system. i am still going to turn it off one of these days.
if your skimmer was turned off what would you measure to tell you you had a problem that the skimmer had been preventing? does that make sense?
as far as the CO2 and pH i have lots of air movement in the house and garage. my skimmer has four air intakes and there is no easy way to plumb the air intake to the outside.
i haven't seen stuff start to grow again though i think things have stopped dying.
the elegance is still with me. i am target feeding it daily. the tentacles are short but it appears helathy, it still has good color.
since i got the tds levels to zero out of the ro/di unit the PO4 has been the lowest ever. i haven't used lanthanum chloride in two weeks.
post RO tds is 5-6 and 0 after the DI, yahoo.
the tank water has mostly tested about 0.08. but then three days ago went down to 0.05ppm and today tested at 0.04ppm.
to think most of the problems may have been the crappy top off water all along... that is fantastic now.
i also added elbows to some of the closed loop returns to direct the water in a more cyclonic fashion.
i have added a little egg crate to give a little more shade to the tank. Steve's system has lower PAR values than my tank.
i don't think the PH is an issue.
i maintain alkalinity with daily additions of soda carbonate or sodium bicarbonate.
pH stays about 8.4-8.5 and is very stable.
dKH is about 11.
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1350
i haven't measured nitrates in a couple of weeks. it was about 10
i am making ASW right now to swap out up to 400 gallons over the next couple weeks. that may help dilute anything that came in the top off water that i don't want and isn't measurable.
that does present a bit of a dilemma though. if things get better should i start using the NSW again? i really don't want to stop as it is soo much cheaper. but if it isn't good of course i will spend the money for ASW mix. but how will i know?
i am still running the skimmer and it is producing a dark green/black skimmate.
how do you know you need a skimmer? just because it takes out stuff doesn't mean if your tank is set up right all that stuff wouldn't become food for something in the tank. something that would grow and breed and feed the corals and fish and give more diversity to the system. i am still going to turn it off one of these days.
if your skimmer was turned off what would you measure to tell you you had a problem that the skimmer had been preventing? does that make sense?
as far as the CO2 and pH i have lots of air movement in the house and garage. my skimmer has four air intakes and there is no easy way to plumb the air intake to the outside.
i haven't seen stuff start to grow again though i think things have stopped dying.
the elegance is still with me. i am target feeding it daily. the tentacles are short but it appears helathy, it still has good color.
Carl
Steve--thank you so much for your insights and expertise. Steve has an amazing outside self contained coral bluehouse.
Steve has very tame hand fed Vlamingi tangs and a few other fish. it is really all about the corals.
since i got the tds levels to zero out of the ro/di unit the PO4 has been the lowest ever. i haven't used lanthanum chloride in two weeks.
post RO tds is 5-6 and 0 after the DI, yahoo.
the tank water has mostly tested about 0.08. but then three days ago went down to 0.05ppm and today tested at 0.04ppm.
to think most of the problems may have been the crappy top off water all along... that is fantastic now.
i also added elbows to some of the closed loop returns to direct the water in a more cyclonic fashion.
i have added a little egg crate to give a little more shade to the tank. Steve's system has lower PAR values than my tank.
i don't think the PH is an issue.
i maintain alkalinity with daily additions of soda carbonate or sodium bicarbonate.
pH stays about 8.4-8.5 and is very stable.
dKH is about 11.
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1350
i haven't measured nitrates in a couple of weeks. it was about 15-20
i guess this is the next thing to work on. i have not measured the city water for nitrates, i will do that tomorrow. the Hanna tester doesn't work on saltwater but will work on city water.
i am making ASW right now to swap out up to 400 gallons over the next couple weeks. that may help dilute anything that came in the top off water that i don't want and isn't measurable.
that does present a bit of a dilemma though. if things get better should i start using the NSW again? i really don't want to stop as it is soo much cheaper. but if it isn't good of course i will spend the money for ASW mix. but how will i know?
i am still running the skimmer and it is producing a dark green/black skimmate.
how do you know you need a skimmer? just because it takes out stuff doesn't mean if your tank is set up right all that stuff wouldn't become food for something in the tank. something that would grow and breed and feed the corals and fish and give more diversity to the system. i am still going to turn it off one of these days.
if your skimmer was turned off what would you measure to tell you you had a problem that the skimmer had been preventing? does that make sense?
as far as the CO2 and pH i have lots of air movement in the house and garage. my skimmer has four air intakes and there is no easy way to plumb the air intake to the outside.
i haven't seen stuff start to grow again though i think things have stopped dying.
the elegance is still with me. i am target feeding it daily. the tentacles are short but it appears helathy, it still has good color.
since i got the tds levels to zero out of the ro/di unit the PO4 has been the lowest ever. i haven't used lanthanum chloride in two weeks.
post RO tds is 5-6 and 0 after the DI, yahoo.
the tank water has mostly tested about 0.08. but then three days ago went down to 0.05ppm and today tested at 0.04ppm.
to think most of the problems may have been the crappy top off water all along... that is fantastic now.
i also added elbows to some of the closed loop returns to direct the water in a more cyclonic fashion.
i have added a little egg crate to give a little more shade to the tank. Steve's system has lower PAR values than my tank.
i don't think the PH is an issue.
i maintain alkalinity with daily additions of soda carbonate or sodium bicarbonate.
pH stays about 8.4-8.5 and is very stable.
dKH is about 11.
Calcium 420
Magnesium 1350
i haven't measured nitrates in a couple of weeks. it was about 10
i am making ASW right now to swap out up to 400 gallons over the next couple weeks. that may help dilute anything that came in the top off water that i don't want and isn't measurable.
that does present a bit of a dilemma though. if things get better should i start using the NSW again? i really don't want to stop as it is soo much cheaper. but if it isn't good of course i will spend the money for ASW mix. but how will i know?
i am still running the skimmer and it is producing a dark green/black skimmate.
how do you know you need a skimmer? just because it takes out stuff doesn't mean if your tank is set up right all that stuff wouldn't become food for something in the tank. something that would grow and breed and feed the corals and fish and give more diversity to the system. i am still going to turn it off one of these days.
if your skimmer was turned off what would you measure to tell you you had a problem that the skimmer had been preventing? does that make sense?
as far as the CO2 and pH i have lots of air movement in the house and garage. my skimmer has four air intakes and there is no easy way to plumb the air intake to the outside.
i haven't seen stuff start to grow again though i think things have stopped dying.
the elegance is still with me. i am target feeding it daily. the tentacles are short but it appears helathy, it still has good color.
Carl
Last edited:
cougaran
New member
If i posted this before i apologize, i've been having computer internet connection problems...anyway, you should check the tap water for the possibility of copper. I use tap water in my tank and treat w/ water conditioner even though i have an ro/di system that i just havent gotten chance to put up...yet...I remember club members in my area saying make sure you test for copper before you use it or you'll wipe the whole tank. At worse check the tank for trace amounts of copper.
Reefski's
Active member
i am using RO?DI water now. i was only using DI which wasn't cutting it.
i got some new helpers to help with the grazing and aiptasia.
an interesting thing, since the phosphates have decreased in the last two weeks, i have gotten some new algae growth i never had before. there are 3-4 patches like this. the tangs don't seem interested in it.
this rock was long in the dark in the sump and when i put it in the DT a few weeks ago started getting a coating of algae. the tangs and urchins do like this algae. i stopped feeding any Nori as it seems they have enough algae in the tank to eat. they are constantly grazing on the rocks.
PO4 is still 0.04
0 tds from RO/DI unit
i got some new helpers to help with the grazing and aiptasia.
an interesting thing, since the phosphates have decreased in the last two weeks, i have gotten some new algae growth i never had before. there are 3-4 patches like this. the tangs don't seem interested in it.
this rock was long in the dark in the sump and when i put it in the DT a few weeks ago started getting a coating of algae. the tangs and urchins do like this algae. i stopped feeding any Nori as it seems they have enough algae in the tank to eat. they are constantly grazing on the rocks.
PO4 is still 0.04
0 tds from RO/DI unit
Ed Reef
New member
Better to start getting a handle of your HA before it becomes out of hand. Removed them manually and try to used an old toothbrush to scrub that area.
Yeah, Tang don't seem to like HA - never found any fishes that likes them, come to think of it.
Alternative a Sea hare might help too
Yeah, Tang don't seem to like HA - never found any fishes that likes them, come to think of it.
Alternative a Sea hare might help too
Reefski's
Active member
why now? my tank has been set up for over 18 months. it is not possible without a lot of work to get any of the rock out to scrub with a toothbrush.
i will check on getting a sea hare. they are cool. i had one as the first thing in the tank but it got sucked against the screen for the pump intake and died. now the screen is 4" instead of 2". they sea hare gave it's life for my education.
Carl
Carl,
My guess on the HA is: PO4 has been high in the water column all this time, allowing algae to grow and PO4 to "bind" in the rocks. Up until now, there has been other algae outcompeteing the HA...thus no HA outbreak. HA is now growing on the rocks, using PO4 that is bound in them and is now being slowly released. The HA is using the PO4 as fast as it is being leached out, so other algae's will not compete with it for space.
FWIW, I've had luck with rabbitfishes eating HA. Check out the Blueline Rabbitfish....it has become one of my favorites lately, they are just beautiful IMO.
My guess on the HA is: PO4 has been high in the water column all this time, allowing algae to grow and PO4 to "bind" in the rocks. Up until now, there has been other algae outcompeteing the HA...thus no HA outbreak. HA is now growing on the rocks, using PO4 that is bound in them and is now being slowly released. The HA is using the PO4 as fast as it is being leached out, so other algae's will not compete with it for space.
FWIW, I've had luck with rabbitfishes eating HA. Check out the Blueline Rabbitfish....it has become one of my favorites lately, they are just beautiful IMO.
Steve1714
New member
looking better Carl,
I think those green fluffy patches are bryopsis, I have seen it grow in tanks with PO4 lower than .01
Not to many things eat that kind of algae, If you see it spreading then you will want to do something about it. Other than that just keep all your numbers stable and give the tank some time to recover.
Steve G
I think those green fluffy patches are bryopsis, I have seen it grow in tanks with PO4 lower than .01
Not to many things eat that kind of algae, If you see it spreading then you will want to do something about it. Other than that just keep all your numbers stable and give the tank some time to recover.
Steve G
