80g SPS dominated issues

[bertoni]

Okay, I'll be waiting for a picture, but it's often hard to tell much from them.

 

[callmesaul8889]

I tried to wait a few days to let the algae get worse before photoing it, but it didn't get nearly as bad as it was a week ago. It looks much more 'hairy' this week, more like calothrix. When it was at its worst, it was slimy and stringy. It always develops air bubbles.

http://imgur.com/a/JgCUY

Anyway, during this week's water change, I removed the rock from my refugium section of my sump and OH MY GOD there was a lot of detritus trapped in the rocks and sand. I've never seen such an accumulation of detritus in one spot before, it was like a layer of sediment over the sandbed. Needless to say, I siphoned it out carefully not to disrupt the deeper sandbed and I'm hoping that makes a big difference with water quality and algae response this week.

 

[rvlcf]

I don't know if this will help, but you could try dosing some Aquavitro fuel. i don't know if it will add to the algae issue but it should help to color up your corals. Start with half the recommended dose and keep an eye out. A lot of reefers swear by this stuff. I use it and I think it works great.

 

[callmesaul8889]

I don't know if this will help, but you could try dosing some Aquavitro fuel. i don't know if it will add to the algae issue but it should help to color up your corals. Start with half the recommended dose and keep an eye out. A lot of reefers swear by this stuff. I use it and I think it works great.

I had this stuff in my hand yesterday and decided to do some research before buying blind. It seems like there are a lot of great reviews for it. I think I'll pick up a bottle and try it. I've been less than impressed with Reef Energy... I don't notice any impact on the coral when I'm using it.

 

[bertoni]

If it's slimy and stringy with air bubbles, I would guess dinoflagellates, but it might be cyanobacteria, or a mix. There could be some diatoms in the mix, but that's not the major portion. Diatoms are never slimy because they have a silicate test (shell). The picture is hard to diagnose, but I don't think that is diatoms.

 

[callmesaul8889]

It's been a little over a week since I cleaned my sump, and I've noticed a large reduction in the brown algae on the sand and rocks (whether it's cyano, dinos, or diatoms I'm still not sure). I've been feeding a tad heavier to see if I can improve color or PE and it hasn't helped at all. It almost looks as if the polyp extension is getting worse.

dKH - 8.25
Mag - 1480
Cal - 495
NO3 - .2
PO4 - .02

I understand it'll take some time to see improvement after cleaning all the detritus, but I don't really understand why color and polyps would look worse after cleaning the tank up a bit.

I took some more photos to show what the corals look like at the moment, specifically the (not very) rainbow monti. The tips of the green acro and forrest fire digi are right under 200 par. The rainbow monti is at 110 par. The blue tort has been losing it's vibrance since I put it in the tank 30 days ago.

 

[bertoni]

The corals might have been irritated by the change in conditions. Do the corals show polyp extension when some food is added? The detritus might have been the source of some sort of food.

 

[callmesaul8889]

The corals might have been irritated by the change in conditions. Do the corals show polyp extension when some food is added? The detritus might have been the source of some sort of food.

The polyps don't seem to change much at all when food is added. I own OysterFeast and Coral Smoothie for that reason and they don't really seem to respond to it much at all. I feed daily with Dr. G's Coral Reef Banquet and I will usually squirt the food near the different frags such that the flow will carry the food past the polyps. I'm also on my second week of AquaVitro Fuel FWIW.


I had a specific question about NO3 PO4 balance... if I feed more and chemically remove PO4, would that prevent algae growth from using up the NO3 and allow the NO3 to be used by the corals? It seems like my NO3 bottoms out before PO4 and I still have visible algae.

 

[bertoni]

Stopping algal growth is more of an art than a science. I probably would try some GFO, but tanks respond differently.

 

[callmesaul8889]

Stopping algal growth is more of an art than a science. I probably would try some GFO, but tanks respond differently.

Ok I'm already on the GFO regimen. I've been slowly upping the amount in my reactor weekly. I feel like I'm in a pickle: in one regard it seems like my coral is starving (pale with higher intensity light, little PE) and in another regard I'm trying to drive down nutrients to get rid of algae. :crazy1:

This is my second attempt at an SPS dominated system that ended up with pale colors and no growth, so it's gotta be something I'm doing wrong or environmental with my house.

 

[nmotz]

The picture isn't completely clear, but from what I can tell it just looks like some patches of developing hair algae. I do agree with Bertoni that it isn't diatoms.

 

[callmesaul8889]

The picture isn't completely clear, but from what I can tell it just looks like some patches of developing hair algae. I do agree with Bertoni that it isn't diatoms.

I've had green hair algae and this is very different. I do have a coating of furry green algae on my back glass (it's very low light and I let the snails take care of it) but the rocks are covered in a brown, loosely attached film that kinda looks like hair algae in a way. In the sand, there are some brown spots that cause the top layer of sand to clump together. It appears to grow in a sheet similar to dinos or cyano, and if it accumulates it will develop bubbles. Blasting the rocks with a turkey baster removes 90% of it and it kinda just disintegrates into the water column. It all builds up in my filter sock, though. It will clog it to the point of water overflowing out of the top in about 4-5 days.

Someone I spoke to suggested maybe it's bacteria based and trying a UV sterilizer. I've never used one, so I wasn't quick to jump on that recommendation, but it's been in the back of my mind since.

 

[callmesaul8889]

The more I look at pics of dinos, cyano, and diatoms the more I think it's just diatoms...

I might try to get ahold of a microscope to get a better idea.

 

[bertoni]

Diatoms should be a golden or brown color, without any signs of slime. They have external silica tests (shells), so they aren't slimy the way that dinoflagellates and cyanobacteria are.

 

[callmesaul8889]

Diatoms should be a golden or brown color, without any signs of slime. They have external silica tests (shells), so they aren't slimy the way that dinoflagellates and cyanobacteria are.

Maybe I shouldn't be using the term 'slimy' then. They are definitely a golden brown color, but it's hard to capture with the spectrum of the blue+ bulbs and my iPhone.

 

[bertoni]

There are microbes related to diatoms that have some structure or are covered in slime. I know that photographing these organisms is difficult. In some cases, a microscope would be needed to say much more.

 

[SnowManSnow]

so i have a 80 g shallow deep blue sps tank It is about 14 months old and i have about 45 sps species in there. I was experiencing sort of the same thing you are with the lack of color. Things were just washed out. not dead. some were even growing really fast, but just washed.
I started experimenting with NaNO3 (Sodium Nitrate). I purchased a bag of it through amazon and figured out how much I needed to raise it 1 ppt on my Red Sea Pro test kits. I've found that keeping my NO3 at 2 ppt makes a tremendous difference in my color of sps. If I get around 4 things pale out a bit again, but 2 seems to be the sweet spot.

By adding the NaNO3 I'm able to JUST add NO3 to my desired setting vs simply feeding more which adds all sorts of stacked things. There is the added Na to consider, but I think Id need a LOT of extra Na to make a negative influence on the tank.

Just my experience, as limited as it may be, and something to consider.
Best of luck.
B

 

[callmesaul8889]

so i have a 80 g shallow deep blue sps tank It is about 14 months old and i have about 45 sps species in there. I was experiencing sort of the same thing you are with the lack of color. Things were just washed out. not dead. some were even growing really fast, but just washed.
I started experimenting with NaNO3 (Sodium Nitrate). I purchased a bag of it through amazon and figured out how much I needed to raise it 1 ppt on my Red Sea Pro test kits. I've found that keeping my NO3 at 2 ppt makes a tremendous difference in my color of sps. If I get around 4 things pale out a bit again, but 2 seems to be the sweet spot.

By adding the NaNO3 I'm able to JUST add NO3 to my desired setting vs simply feeding more which adds all sorts of stacked things. There is the added Na to consider, but I think Id need a LOT of extra Na to make a negative influence on the tank.

Just my experience, as limited as it may be, and something to consider.
Best of luck.
B

So I have been attempting to keep my NO3 up around 2ppm with KNO3, but after a week is when I saw a bloom of whatever the algae is I'm trying to ID. Now that it's tapered back and I'm using a little more GFO, I'm going to try to raise it again. When it was a bit higher the color definitely looked better.

 

[hans24hrs]

I run a UV on my tank, only once did I not run one and I had nothing but algae problems. In the past I used ultra algae x and Kent tech M together. That would eliminate the algae, but it would come back after I stopped using that combo. After I upgraded tank I added a UV again. Don't think I would go without again.

 

[callmesaul8889]

I run a UV on my tank, only once did I not run one and I had nothing but algae problems. In the past I used ultra algae x and Kent tech M together. That would eliminate the algae, but it would come back after I stopped using that combo. After I upgraded tank I added a UV again. Don't think I would go without again.

This is something I'm considering. After keeping NO3 at ~2ppm for a few days I can see improved polyp extension and color, but I also have a thick coat of this brown algae/bacteria on the sandbed. I'm starting to see cyano mixed in with it as well (could be from the reef fuel, I'm using half dosage now).

I also switched out PhosLock brand to Rowaphos for more aggressive PO4 control. I'll be increasing the amounts I'm using to see if that fights back the algae.