88 watt Leds

L

luisagos

Active member
Anyone using these lights?

http://smgsllc.com/turnkeylights.html

I like idea, that you can upgrade and repair these units very easily. Having the the case as a heat sink is a very good idea.

I think, I finally found my lights if I don't get bad reviews from you guys.
Please anyone have these lights or know any information on them ?

Thank you.
 
actually looks pretty nice. really expensive... but nice. youd need one per foot of tank IMO, if you can stomach that, rock on. I think I prefer the controller ability of a solaris though for that price.
 
I've actually seen these lights in person @ my LFS and I must say that I was impressed. They give the tank a "shimmering" effect which I liked at first but don't know if would get fatiguing on the eyes. The units ran very cool, only slightly warm to the touch and were placed only several inches above the water. They were displayed on a 250 gal square tank and seemed to provide plenty of light. I believe there were two units which provided the sole lighting for the tank. Nice, but expensive...
 
Interesting. They don't use any optics (lenses) on the leds. Both PFO and AI do as do some of the other DIY sources. I wonder why. It would seem that the optics are necessary to achieve the desirable beam or why would the other providers bother?
 
Optics are very necessary. Without them, you get lousy performance beyond 12". Doesn't matter how many LEDs you have.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14255288#post14255288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lharney
I've actually seen these lights in person @ my LFS and I must say that I was impressed. They give the tank a "shimmering" effect which I liked at first but don't know if would get fatiguing on the eyes. The units ran very cool, only slightly warm to the touch and were placed only several inches above the water. They were displayed on a 250 gal square tank and seemed to provide plenty of light. I believe there were two units which provided the sole lighting for the tank. Nice, but expensive...
Click to expand...

Cool, what LFS was it? Would like to contact them to ask some questions.
Thank you.
 
evilc66 and jtma508, thank you for information.

Whats your basis for this fact, can you provide any data?

Aren't LEDS supposed to be more focus light, unlike MH and the T5?
I use to maintain Vacuum coated machines, that coated prescription plastic lens using chemicals that we evaporated inside a vacuum chamber.

The main goal was to reduce glare, hence making more light go through the lens and the user would be able to see better during the day and more so at night.
The best spectrum was a light tinted green, when you see glasses with a light tinted green glare its been coated.

Like I said before LEDs are the most focus lights we use in our aquariums.

Unless you are referring the direct opposite, that the LED needs to be more radiated.
But there is a fine line, the MH are light polluter, so much light is wasted into the room, the T5 are better (less light pollution then MH) but not as bright. LEDS have too much focus light.

Quoted by the makers of these fixtures:
But these led you are using one led to light up an area about 6 inch by 6 inch (at 24 inches down), you place an array of these leds over your tank to light up a 24 inch by 18 inch area.

On a metal halide light you have single ball of light about ¼ inch in diameter that you then have to use reflectors to bend over the same 24 inch by 18 inch area this causes a lot more stray light and off angle rays then using multiple point sources to light up smaller over lapping areas.
End of Quote:

I guess the bottom line is, can these lights grow coral?
Isn't this why we are here for?
 
Well luis, I've been looking into LED lighting for almost a year now. Both AI and PFO use optics with their LED stars (although each uses a slightly different approach). Why would they do this if it wasn't necessary. Also, there is another DIY source that I've seen here on RC supply kits (I can't recall the site ATM). He also includes the lenses. Why would this be the case if it were not necessary?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14257984#post14257984 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jtma508
Well luis, I've been looking into LED lighting for almost a year now. Both AI and PFO use optics with their LED stars (although each uses a slightly different approach). Why would they do this if it wasn't necessary. Also, there is another DIY source that I've seen here on RC supply kits (I can't recall the site ATM). He also includes the lenses. Why would this be the case if it were not necessary?
Click to expand...

Aye, very good question. We need more input. Going to see how AI and PFO do theirs.

Fun Fun.
 
Got more information;

The AI light fixtures uses one big lens for it optics.
Couldn't find too much information on it, but I didn't spend to much time on it either.

The PFO uses 40 Degree Optics on each individual LED.

Now for the lights in question, I need to see if the optics are really needed, need to talk to the designer of these lights.

You can buy optics lens for these LEDS.

http://www.luxeonstar.com/polymer-lenses-rebel-led-optics-c-103_104.php
 
this is a response that I placed on another forum.
moderator if this goes against your policy in anyway please remove it, (where is bean when you need him)

As for led lighting and light intensity/penetration, I have one client that is using 144 watt units to reach to the bottom of a 38 inch deep show tank, and is reporting great growth with a mix of sps corals and also with clams living on the very bottom of the tank. As far as penetration goes with led lights they will and are reaching as deep as their metal halide equivalents are. Why?
Because of the way they are built. A led, because of the way it is built, sends light out in a very controlled beam. The next statements are very general, but you can find very detailed explanations on the web.
Lets take a look at a rebel (mainly because that is what I am familiar with) you have a grid of diodes placed inside of cups (shaped reflectors for lack of a better term) when the diode lights it will send the light out of only one side of the diode. The light is then shaped by the cups to leave in a tight pattern.
the led also has a lens over the top of and encasing the led this lens works very much in the same way as a fiber wire works in that only light heading in the direction that the designer wishes leaves the lens all other light is bounced off the walls of the lens and sent in the right direction. All of this is done on a die that is smaller then the tip of your pencil

lxml-pwc1-0100.jpg


What does all this do for you? It gives you very controlled light source that has a very collimated light so when it hits the waters surface there is less chance of it bending and heading out the side of your tank.
One of the most common comments I hear from persons that buy led lighting is that the room the tank is in looks darker then it did with metal halides. At the local fish store here one of my favorite things to do is show people the difference between the light spilling out of the different 150 watt metal halide lights and pendants that they have and the led light system. Even though both the metal halide and the led do not spill over the top of the tank the metal halide does come out of the front and side glasses and spills on to the floor. Why is this?
On an led you are using one led to light up an area about 6 inch by 6 inch (at 24 inches down), you place an array of these leds over your tank to light up a 24 inch by 18 inch area. On a metal halide light you have single ball of light about Ã"šÃ‚¼ inch in diameter that you then have to use reflectors to bend over the same 24 inch by 18 inch area this causes a lot more stray light and off angle rays then using multiple point sources to light up smaller over lapping areas.

the rebel led produces a 45 degree beam without lenses the solaris uses lenses to get a 45 x 42 degree beam from a k2 (has a 100 degree beam without lens) or a Luxeon III (also a 100 degree beam).
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14255288#post14255288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lharney
I've actually seen these lights in person @ my LFS and I must say that I was impressed. They give the tank a "shimmering" effect which I liked at first but don't know if would get fatiguing on the eyes. The units ran very cool, only slightly warm to the touch and were placed only several inches above the water. They were displayed on a 250 gal square tank and seemed to provide plenty of light. I believe there were two units which provided the sole lighting for the tank. Nice, but expensive...
Click to expand...

lharney, thank you for the nice comment, the shimmering is pretty impressive it is very similar to a MH just more point sources.

as for fatiguing on the eyes it is kind of like being under water in the tropics being a life long scuba diver I find it very relaxing but everyone is different that is what make us all special right :D

if the LSF you are talking about is southwest reef in Albuquerque then yes it is a 250 gallon square and it is only lighted by two 144 watt units placed directly on the top glass.
 
Last edited:
Thank you smgsllc for clearing that up.

Going to order these lights, so far i feel good about it.
I don't see other issues with these lights, unless I overlook something.

Maybe I can get more input on people using these lights?
 
I talked on the phone with LFS, well not local to me, lol.

He doesn't have on-line website for selling, but he does carry them.
The owner was busy with customers so I only chance to talk with someone at the store.
They like the lights, coral is growing better then t5 they had before. One customer has had these lights for over 1 year with zero problems.
The owner is suppose to call me later to give me more details on these lights, once he gets free up.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14259349#post14259349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smgsllc
this is a response that I placed on another forum.
moderator if this goes against your policy in anyway please remove it, (where is bean when you need him)

As for led lighting and light intensity/penetration, I have one client that is using 144 watt units to reach to the bottom of a 38 inch deep show tank, and is reporting great growth with a mix of sps corals and also with clams living on the very bottom of the tank. As far as penetration goes with led lights they will and are reaching as deep as their metal halide equivalents are. Why?
Because of the way they are built. A led, because of the way it is built, sends light out in a very controlled beam. The next statements are very general, but you can find very detailed explanations on the web.
Lets take a look at a rebel (mainly because that is what I am familiar with) you have a grid of diodes placed inside of cups (shaped reflectors for lack of a better term) when the diode lights it will send the light out of only one side of the diode. The light is then shaped by the cups to leave in a tight pattern.
the led also has a lens over the top of and encasing the led this lens works very much in the same way as a fiber wire works in that only light heading in the direction that the designer wishes leaves the lens all other light is bounced off the walls of the lens and sent in the right direction. All of this is done on a die that is smaller then the tip of your pencil

lxml-pwc1-0100.jpg


What does all this do for you? It gives you very controlled light source that has a very collimated light so when it hits the waters surface there is less chance of it bending and heading out the side of your tank.
One of the most common comments I hear from persons that buy led lighting is that the room the tank is in looks darker then it did with metal halides. At the local fish store here one of my favorite things to do is show people the difference between the light spilling out of the different 150 watt metal halide lights and pendants that they have and the led light system. Even though both the metal halide and the led do not spill over the top of the tank the metal halide does come out of the front and side glasses and spills on to the floor. Why is this?
On an led you are using one led to light up an area about 6 inch by 6 inch (at 24 inches down), you place an array of these leds over your tank to light up a 24 inch by 18 inch area. On a metal halide light you have single ball of light about Ã"šÃ‚¼ inch in diameter that you then have to use reflectors to bend over the same 24 inch by 18 inch area this causes a lot more stray light and off angle rays then using multiple point sources to light up smaller over lapping areas.

the rebel led produces a 45 degree beam without lenses the solaris uses lenses to get a 45 x 42 degree beam from a k2 (has a 100 degree beam without lens) or a Luxeon III (also a 100 degree beam).
Click to expand...

This is false. Rebels, like all other high power LEDs produce a very wide viewing angle, 135 degree to be exact. Look it up in the datasheet.

There is no way they can get good sps growth at 34" without optics. I have done a lot of testing with my own arrays and PAR meter and have found that 3W LEDs (high end bins) can produce PAR levels very similar to 70W MH levels without optics at the same kind of distances. 40 degree optics can push the PAR levels to 250W levels. I have yet to test with anything tighter than that, but I would assume that at around 25 degrees, you should be able to hit 400W levels.

Luisago, if you are going to buy those lights, make sure they have a return policy incase it's not what you want. It's not going to have great performance without any form of optic.
 
Specs on these lights are these, look at pg 20

http://www.philipslumileds.com/pdfs/DS56.pdf

From what I see, looks like there 45, unless i am not reading them right.

I just got off the phone with Mike, i believe we spent like over 3 h on the phone.
The time I spent with the guy, I felt i was talking to an engineer, not sales guy.
I should know, I am Maintenance Supervisor, and I deal with both the engineer and the sales types almost on a daily basic.
I even got on his case, because i felt no pressure of him selling the lights.
He is very knowledgeable in electronics, we talked about everything under the sun and then some, mostly different types of technology.

What Attracted me to his product was the way the LED fixture are built.
Trust me, i know. I use to build and final test 5 million dollars Etch/ deposition machines, with 3 axis robotics for a semiconductor company.

There is a lot of fine details with his units that most don't see. I am going to list a few.

1) Heat sink to a certain agree is passive, LEDs are not going to go boom, if the fan fails, depending on the room temps, you got some time to deal with it, not like other LEDs Assembly's that are totally active cooling, he has massive heat sink on those LEDs.
2) Wiring, he is using Teflon silver tin wire, those wires will not melt or corrode, its the best wiring for harsh environment.
3) Each LEDs are are electrical power separated, if one goes poof, it doesn't take the whole line with it and the rest continues to work.
4) Power Supplies, any 13.5 v DC with the right current rating will work with his LEDs.
5) Any of his LEDs can be replace by an idiot well maybe not every idiot, lol, what does that mean?. If one LED goes bad, you just need to get that one replace, not have to shipped the whole unit out. It also means, you can upgrade to a newer type of LEDs if you need to.
6) Warranty for one year, and up to 5 years for LEDs if there are found to be a manufacture defective. Water damage of coarse voids it.

Like I said before, this guy know his stuff, just send him a email and talk with him you wont be disappointed and don't ask him a question if you don't want it answered, lol.
I place my order for 3 x 88 watt units, he convince me not to get the 144 watt, good chance i will not need them. But if I do need the 144 watt, i just need to buy four more LEDs and 1 board and my 88 watt is 144 watt model.

I will report once I get them in my hands. I can also return them, if i dont like them.
 
Last edited:
luisagos,
thanks for the suggestions this evening I will take them to heart, to that ends here is a photo of the tank that lharney mentioned it is a 4 foot by 4 foot tank 32 inches deep (lharney please correct me if I am wrong on the depth) all I did to take the photo was set my nikon D90 camera to auto and snap the photo, the color of the light is dead on to reality and since they had just feed the tank you can see the light beams coming off the lights. as you can see if you draw a line from the lights to the side walls of the tank where the shadows hit you will see that it is a 45 degree angle look at the center of the tank you can see the light throw off the two lights do you see the triangle shaped shadow between the lights dead center on the tank?
the owner of the tank was commenting that one of the things he likes the most about the lights is that the algae that grows on the front and side glass does not start until 12 inches down from the top, so when his workers clean the glass they do not have to go all the way to the top of the tank, the benefit to him is that since they do not have to clean the top of the tank, they do not splash water out of the tank
look at the fish in the top right along with the algae scrubber in the corner see how even though the light is only ten inches from it it is still in the shadow. the fishes nose is in the light but his body is not that gives you a very good idea at how close the light pattern is even without lenses.

DSC_7280resize.JPG
 
Last edited:
There was someone else selling DIY kits for LED lights. I'm almost certain I saw the thread here on RC. Does anyone recall the thread, or more importantly, the website? It would be interesting to compare the two.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Maxspect jump led issue
Replies
0
Views
1K
Cruzersmith
C
S
Novice Aquarist - Sump & Equipment Questions
Replies
9
Views
332
wvned
wvned
Easygoing1
PFO Aquatics SOLARIS Rebuild And Questions
Replies
8
Views
2K
oreo57
oreo57
B
Hood mounting LEDs
Replies
3
Views
732
Bakeman
B
E
What's Old is New Again
Replies
2
Views
483
Uncle99
Uncle99
Back
Top