A General Guide to Salt Mixes

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I thought I heard letting water age for at least 24 hours would "stabilize" the pH?

Obviously, letting the water stand for at least 24 hours does not effect the pH?

I wonder what it does do?


Did you measure the pH of the new salt water? After aeration, its pH will be determined by the alkalinity and the CO2 level in your home. If you have excess CO2, any new salt water could have a pH below 7.8.

Also, the Pinpoint pH meter can be impacted by electrical interference from some lighting ballasts, so if you see a sudden jump up or down, it may have no real basis.

 

[Billybeau1]

I just tested a new bucket of red sea coral pro and they either changed something or I have a bucket with higher then average alk


55 gallons batch

sg at 1.026 freshly calibrated refractometer(pinpoint salinity calibration fluid)
alk @ 11.2 tested 3 times with salifert and confirmed with ATI test
cal 420 tested with salifert
mg 1300 tested with salifert

this is a bit higher then the last few buckets on the alk

Wow, Alk higher and calcium lower but mag is right on.

I'm wondering if you mixed the bucket real good before scooping it out ? Some settling can occur although that is a large difference in alkalinity.

 

[Aquarist007]

I just received my C-Balance two part system and am waiting for my alkalinity to lower to 7dkh before using Part B which could stabilize the pH?

7dkh is low. The preferred range is 8.5 to 11.5 dkh

 

[Finsky]

Measure ph of replacement water

Measure ph of replacement water

I thought I heard letting water age for at least 24 hours would "stabilize" the pH?

Obviously, letting the water stand for at least 24 hours does not effect the pH?

I wonder what it does do?


Did you measure the pH of the new salt water? After aeration, its pH will be determined by the alkalinity and the CO2 level in your home. If you have excess CO2, any new salt water could have a pH below 7.8.

Also, the Pinpoint pH meter can be impacted by electrical interference from some lighting ballasts, so if you see a sudden jump up or down, it may have no real basis.

No, I did not measure the pH of the replacement water although I have buffered previous batches taking into account the .2 drop and I still had a drop with the return batch buffered with up to two doses of Seachem' Reef Buffer? I will test next weeks pH although a pH of 7 before mixing the salt should not lower a 120 gallon tank by .2 pH? I still do not believe it was the Pinpoint pH Monitor. Hypothesizing, I can only think there is some chemical in the tap water?

 

[Finsky]

Instant Ocean Response

Instant Ocean Response

I thought I heard letting water age for at least 24 hours would "stabilize" the pH?

Obviously, letting the water stand for at least 24 hours does not effect the pH?

I wonder what it does do?


Did you measure the pH of the new salt water? After aeration, its pH will be determined by the alkalinity and the CO2 level in your home. If you have excess CO2, any new salt water could have a pH below 7.8.

Also, the Pinpoint pH meter can be impacted by electrical interference from some lighting ballasts, so if you see a sudden jump up or down, it may have no real basis.

Randy:

I had thought of using my air pump and dropping a couple of air stones in along with the circulation. Next time I will. I think you and Instant Ocean have hit the nail on the head. See Instant Ocean response:

Hello Thomas,

The reply from Reef Central wasn't too far off the mark, actually. The reason for the pH drop you have always experienced is gas exchange. The water is not reaching a CO2 vs. O2 equilibrium. You most likely need to aerate the tank and the mix more. We would also recommend aerating the mix longer. We usually recommend 7 days for optimum mixing, but 24 hours is okay. Also, perhaps the room needs better ventilation.

Regards,

Marineland

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I will test next weeks pH although a pH of 7 before mixing the salt should not lower a 120 gallon tank by .2 pH?

It is only the pH of the salt after mixing and aeration that matters.

In general, it is almost never a good idea to add buffers to a salt mix as nearly all already have plenty of alkalinity, and a buffer will just push it too high and may cause preciptiation of calcium carbonate.

The reply from Reef Central wasn't too far off the mark, actually.

:lol:

Well, I'm glad to hear it. :lol:

In general I would caution you to be careful in taking chemistry advice from manufacturers. They often do not understand their own products.

 

[Luckylouse]

Wow. I'm glad I hitched on ride on this post.

I usually mix for 2 hours. Just enough to heat the water to room temp.

 

[Aquarist007]

I will test next weeks pH although a pH of 7 before mixing the salt should not lower a 120 gallon tank by .2 pH?

It is only the pH of the salt after mixing and aeration that matters.

In general, it is almost never a good idea to add buffers to a salt mix as nearly all already have plenty of alkalinity, and a buffer will just push it too high and may cause preciptiation of calcium carbonate.

The reply from Reef Central wasn't too far off the mark, actually.

:lol:

Well, I'm glad to hear it. :lol:

In general I would caution you to be careful in taking chemistry advice from manufacturers. They often do not understand their own products.

So true
Hmm--I have a 45 gal drum in the garage that I use for clients salt water. I pump ro/di water up from the basement as that is where I have access to greater water flow/pressure. This time a year I keep the lid on the drum tightly with a heater and power head inside. I just went out and measured the pH with middle of the line ph meter. The pH was 8.17 which read 8.2 on my less expensive pinpoint probe.

 

[rigleautomotive]

Wow, Alk higher and calcium lower but mag is right on.

I'm wondering if you mixed the bucket real good before scooping it out ? Some settling can occur although that is a large difference in alkalinity.

No billy i didnt mix it at all.But i didnt mix the last 4 buckets either and the alk was quite a bit lower.I test every barrel of water i make and it varies very little from the first one i take from a new bucket of salt to the last.I think they changed something or i got a bad bucket.I will mix a new one this weekend hopefully and i will test again and post

 

[Finsky]

Give Reef Chemist his due!

Give Reef Chemist his due!

I will test next weeks pH although a pH of 7 before mixing the salt should not lower a 120 gallon tank by .2 pH?

It is only the pH of the salt after mixing and aeration that matters.

In general, it is almost never a good idea to add buffers to a salt mix as nearly all already have plenty of alkalinity, and a buffer will just push it too high and may cause preciptiation of calcium carbonate.

The reply from Reef Central wasn't too far off the mark, actually.

:lol:

Well, I'm glad to hear it. :lol:

In general I would caution you to be careful in taking chemistry advice from manufacturers. They often do not understand their own products.

Randy:

The guy from Pinpoint was telling me using an air pump with air stones would not increase the oxygen in the mixing container as it was in the same closed room as the tank?

My question now is, in addition to a 24 hour minimum of circulation with a powerhead, how long do I need to aerate the mixing container water with an air pump and air stones before pumping the newly mixed fresh saltwater back into the tank to avoid the pH drop?

:jester:

 

[Billybeau1]

Randy:

The guy from Pinpoint was telling me using an air pump with air stones would not increase the oxygen in the mixing container as it was in the same closed room as the tank?

My question now is, in addition to a 24 hour minimum of circulation with a powerhead, how long do I need to aerate the mixing container water with an air pump and air stones before pumping the newly mixed fresh saltwater back into the tank to avoid the pH drop?

:jester:

Tom, the guy from pinpoint is talking about O₂. We are talking about CO₂. Big difference.

I would not worry about a slight drop in pH after a water change. And I would not be concerned about what the pH of freshly mixed salt water is. It usually rebounds in a couple of hours and I really think your tanks inhabitants do not care.

In all due respect, this is a salt mix thread and if you are having pH problems or questions about pH, then start a new one and I'm sure we can all chime in and help.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The guy from Pinpoint was telling me using an air pump with air stones would not increase the oxygen in the mixing container as it was in the same closed room as the tank?

If the goal is to bring up O2 in a new salt mix, that will work fine, but will not impact pH via the O2 (O2 has no impact on pH)

If the goal is to alter pH in the salt mix by equilibrating CO2, then it may not bring up pH if there is excess CO2 in your home air. I'm sure that is what Lou Dell meant, if it was him that you talked to at American Marine/Pinpoint. You may need fresher air.

I agree let's take this to another thread for further pH discussions unrelated to salt mixes.

 

[Lyfey]

My TM Pro 200gal bucket should arrive today. I was reading on the Brightwells salt bucket that when switching over to a different salt brand you should slowly, (ie 5% WC) acclimate your tank to the new salt over a period of time (weeks to months) Im not too sure about that statement. What do you guys think? I was a RC user for 6 months of the tanks life, then switched to the brightwell for a month. Now I will be conducting a Water change within the next couple of days, once I recieve my salt.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do not see any reason to go slower than usual in water changes just because you switched salt mixes, as long as both are decent mixes to begin with. Some of the information provided by Brightwell does not have a sound basis in fact.

That said, there's nothing wrong with going slow if you want to.

The only time I've ever heard of a problem in changing mixes was when Ron Shimek scared a lot of people away from Instant Ocean to another mix, and some people had a problem when they switched to that one that people did not seem to have who always had used it. I do not know what happened there, or if it was just coincidence. No one ever proposed a believable reason for that, at least not that I heard.

 

[Billybeau1]

I agree to just do water changes as usual. Unless it is over 25% it should not affect much.

 

[Finsky]

I do a 10% water change weekly and I used Instant Ocean for the first year and have used Reef Crystals for the last two and a half years. I do not remember doing anything different when I starting using Reef Crystals other than my regular 10% water changes.

I think we need to ask ourselves "why" we are changing salt mixes?

I still have to use up two and a half 200 gallon boxes of Reef Crystals before I would consider changing back to "Instant Ocean" for my mini reef tank. I have sent a second email to the Georgia Aquarium Education Programs Manager regarding whether they use any additives in addition to Instant Ocean for their reef tanks, etc.

 

[Lyfey]

Well I usually do larger than normal water changes at around 30gallons on a water volume estimated of 89 gallons or so.

 

[Billybeau1]

Well I usually do larger than normal water changes at around 30gallons on a water volume estimated of 89 gallons or so.

How often ?

 

[Lyfey]

Honestly I havent been on any type of schedule. I have been trying many different things with this tank and expirimenting alot on what works and what doesnt work. I would like to do these larger water changes bi-monthly, but I did these huge water changes with the brightwells salt every 3-4 days until the bucket was exhausted. I was having huge issues with the tank and all the SPS were near death, never any problems with the softies or the fish so I attempted large water changes frequently. Thats how I used a 160 gal bucket of salt in a month. My new planned WC schedule is still up for grabs, any suggestions? I dont have a huge skimmer and I am dosing MB7 at the moment. Still trying new things to see what works for me.

 

[Billybeau1]

Well, you got about 90 gal so lets see.

Depending on your schedule, you could do, say, 10% a week or 20% every two weeks. Some, like Randy do daily 1 or 2% changes which is the ideal scenario, but some of us do not have the time or equipment to make this happen.

Don't know much about MB7 so can't comment on that.

Randys article on water changes pretty much says it all. But you have to figure out what fits into your schedule and stick with it.

In the long term, I'd think about upgrading your skimmer. This may be one of the most important pieces of equipment for us reefers these days.

Good luck.