A General Guide to Salt Mixes

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Are you STILL boosting even with the I.O. having higher levels now?

Yes. I suppose I should measure the tank before too long , but the magnesium value in particular also offsets calcification loses, not just the low salt mix.

 

[Aquarist007]

Are you STILL boosting even with the I.O. having higher levels now?

I'm still using the same level of two part as I did before with IO however I don't have to dose with magnesium anymore

Not to mention that every system is different and accordingly has different demands on calcium and carbonate

 

[mr.120]

so i forgot to order salt (red sea pro coral) last week. had to get some last minute salt this is what i got. neo marine salt made by brightwell aquatics. has anyone ever used this salt be for and what there results where? thanks

(specs) ion's
cl- 19,321.000 ppm
SO-2 2,711.500 ppm
NA+4 10,770.000 ppm
MA+2 1,288.000 ppm
CA+2 413.000 ppm
K+ 398.800 ppm
BI- 67.000 ppm
SR+2 7.625 ppm
B+3 4.500 ppm
F- 1.300 ppm

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are some threads on it around. I've not heard of specific problems with it, but here's a copy and paste comment of mine from another thread:

It seems a bit low in magnesium in Billy's tests:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

This is what concerns me about it. Chris claims:

"Conservative minor and trace elements are not depleted in marine environments, indicating that they are not utilized by marine life or do not take part in chemical reactions in seawater; as such, they are not necessary for the survival of aquarium inhabitants, and are not part of the NeoMarine formulation. "

What exactly are they leaving out? Why? They are smarter than nature?

Does something need to be depleted to be important? Certainly not.

Molydbate is conserved, but is critical for life. Did they leave it out? Does the sentence above actually have any meaning aside from a marketing thing?

 

[Finsky]

I have three 200 gallon boxes of Reef Crystals(used last two years) to go through before I can make a change to Instant Ocean(used first year and a half).

If the Georgia Aquarium uses Instant Ocean then I would feel comfortable with my Reef Crystals or Instant ocean.

"We use instant ocean to create our salt water. It actual comes as 2,000 lbs bags of salt mixture that we add to water in special holding tanks. We use Instant Ocean synthetic salt for all our saltwater systems, including reef displays. We regularly test a wide range of water quality parameters and make adjustments/additions to each system according to each exhibit’s specific requirements."

I still forget the benefits of using Instant Ocean over Reef Crystals.

 

[Aquarist007]

I have three 200 gallon boxes of Reef Crystals(used last two years) to go through before I can make a change to Instant Ocean(used first year and a half).

If the Georgia Aquarium uses Instant Ocean then I would feel comfortable with my Reef Crystals or Instant ocean.

"We use instant ocean to create our salt water. It actual comes as 2,000 lbs bags of salt mixture that we add to water in special holding tanks. We use Instant Ocean synthetic salt for all our saltwater systems, including reef displays. We regularly test a wide range of water quality parameters and make adjustments/additions to each system according to each exhibit's specific requirements."

I still forget the benefits of using Instant Ocean over Reef Crystals.

I would imagine that in a tank that large the flow and water exchange would be staggering so they would just be keeping the parameters close to natural sea water as possible.
Unlike our much smaller tanks that most of the time are overloaded with corals and calcium using inverts so that the demand far exceeds a reasonable and weekly/bimonthly water change.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I still forget the benefits of using Instant Ocean over Reef Crystals.

IMO, those advantages to IO include cost, no organics such as vitamins, and no metal chelators.

 

[tmz]

Randy , Why is no metal chelators a plus? BTW, Do you know if Coralife contains them?
I've used it for about 7.5 years. My corals are doing well but I would like calcium to be a bit lower and I often think of switching to IO but I'm reuctant to change. An issue with metals potentialy releasing might tip the scale though.

 

[ryshark]

Randy , Why is no metal chelators a plus? BTW, Do you know if Coralife contains them?
I've used it for about 7.5 years. My corals are doing well but I would like calcium to be a bit lower and I often think of switching to IO but I'm reuctant to change. An issue with metals potentialy releasing might tip the scale though.

I'd like to hear the answer to this too. I also use coralife and agree that the calcium is a little too high. To offset it I have to dose much less Calcium than Alk with my 2-part dosing regimen. But at $40 bucks a bucket and a free t-shirt I just thinkg of it as saving money on calcium 2-part. I would like to hear more about the metals.

 

[jcmelski]

I used to use IO, then I bought a 200 gallon box of RC. I noticed this brown slime(residue) in my mixing bin also. I thought it was the bin releasing something to the SW or that my RO/DI unit was FUBAR'd. I'm kinda glad to read that this is normal using IO or RC. I'm currently using TMpro. It's ok. I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary with it though. I don't test for mag though. Should I?

 

[RossW]

I don't test for mag though. Should I?

IMHO, yes. Wether you have to supplement or not will depend on your tank, salt, and water change schedule.

 

[alrha]

I don't test for mag though. Should I?

in short, yes. Mg plays a significant role in relation to Ca & Alk

 

[Aquarist007]

Randy , Why is no metal chelators a plus? BTW, Do you know if Coralife contains them?
I've used it for about 7.5 years. My corals are doing well but I would like calcium to be a bit lower and I often think of switching to IO but I'm reuctant to change. An issue with metals potentialy releasing might tip the scale though.

Kind of a basic question here but why is it necessary to run calcium levels so much higher then it is in the ocean? The trend seems to be going higher and higher as indicated in the salt mixes? Is there not a limit at which corals can process calcium and carbonate?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy , Why is no metal chelators a plus?

Well, they might be OK, but the idea in adding them is to bind metals and make them less bioavailable. I do not know if I want to do that, and since I do not know what is being added or how much, or what metals they are binding and to what extent, I am concerned. If it were generally a benefit (and it could be, but the manufacturer itself does not have evidence they are useful), why is no one recommending just adding chelators to tank water? My tank water has more copper than IO salt mix. Should I be adding a chelator to the tank?

Many folks add trace elements, and the effect of the chelator is exactly the opposite, removing some.

So which is it, do we need more or less metals in the water? I really do not know, with the exception of iron for folks growing macroalgae (which I add).

.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Kind of a basic question here but why is it necessary to run calcium levels so much higher then it is in the ocean? The trend seems to be going higher and higher as indicated in the salt mixes? Is there not a limit at which corals can process calcium and carbonate?

Think of your average reef hobbyist buying salt mixes at the LFS. Not your average RC member or especially, Reef Chemistry forum member.

The rational is that they hear calcium is good. So more must be better, so why not buy the mix with more.

I agree there is little apparent utility to having calcium in the 500+ ppm range.

 

[Aquarist007]

Kind of a basic question here but why is it necessary to run calcium levels so much higher then it is in the ocean? The trend seems to be going higher and higher as indicated in the salt mixes? Is there not a limit at which corals can process calcium and carbonate?

Think of your average reef hobbyist buying salt mixes at the LFS. Not your average RC member or especially, Reef Chemistry forum member.

The rational is that they hear calcium is good. So more must be better, so why not buy the mix with more.

I agree there is little apparent utility to having calcium in the 500+ ppm range.

thanks, what range of calcium do you keep your systems in Randy?

 

[alrha]

I agree there is little apparent utility to having calcium in the 500+ ppm range.

well, when doing a partial water change, it may help boost your overall Ca levels and decrease the need to supplement, no?

If a 100gal tank has 400ppm Ca and performs a 10% Water Change with a 500ppm salt mix, the tank level will now avg out to 410ppm.

a fish only tank would suffer increased calcium levels over time, but a reef tank which is utilizing the Ca on a regular basis might appreciate the 'boosted' Ca levels in the salt.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

well, when doing a partial water change, it may help boost your overall Ca levels and decrease the need to supplement, no?

Yes, that’s true and that may benefit some people.

However, I think most people would be best off with a balanced calcium and alkalinity method (like limewater, a two part, or a CaCO3/CO2 reactor) and having calcium start high means it will have to stay high.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

thanks, what range of calcium do you keep your systems in Randy?

I rarely measure it, but I'm happy with anything between about 380 and 550 ppm. I'd prefer it around 420 ppm.

 

[Aquarist007]

well, when doing a partial water change, it may help boost your overall Ca levels and decrease the need to supplement, no?

If a 100gal tank has 400ppm Ca and performs a 10% Water Change with a 500ppm salt mix, the tank level will now avg out to 410ppm.

a fish only tank would suffer increased calcium levels over time, but a reef tank which is utilizing the Ca on a regular basis might appreciate the 'boosted' Ca levels in the salt.

I believe your example shows acutally how little 10 per cent water changes make that much difference on the cal, mag and alk levels in the display tank.
Which is why Randy's suggestion of relying on two part or calcium reactors to supplement it is a good idea, if the tank requires it.
I'm maintaining over 20 tanks currently so with that in mind I use the new Instant Ocean and vary the method of supplementation according to the needs of each individual tank.
I appreciate Randy mentioning that he prefers a 420 calcium level which is much more affordable for my clients to maintain