A little confused, Who here justifies this hobby?

[iamwrasseman]

there are worse things that money ill spent could do to this earth .we did cut down all the trees to make our houses .we did and still are burning fossil fuels at an astonishing rate ,ruining everything including the reefs .we do transport oil and spill it daily into our oceans killing more fish,birds and anything else that comes in contact with it .we have rerouted endless rivers killing millions of fish just to provide hydro power . we have taken so much petroleum and burned it in our cars etc. just to further ourselves .also every piece of plastic unless recycled are a product of petroleum that has been pumped out of our earth .i am just getting started, and to remove a few zillion fish and corals in an attempt to keep them alive at any expense and propagate them seem just a bit more justifiable than many other things that we have done or are currently doing .i dont believe that every fish and coral that we remove is wise but its okay to me because a large portion of them are cared for so well .

 

[cortez marine]

If you rank our trades effect against the grand effects of the whole human experience on earth...then yes.
We are small.

But, by puffing up the problems of humanity as to great to effect, you let us off the hook.
Why?
We can and could have minimized our impacts tremendously and yet....we let "others" do it. We let non drivers take the wheel and ruin the opportunity.
We could have created good news where there was little and we could have established a good example for others to follow, to build upon , to draw inspiration from.

A decade of aquarium reform potential was lost when it was needed most and 90% of the people reading this don't have a clue as to what happened.

Time and time again hobbyist feel guilty about themselves and yet are unaware of what has already been done for reform as well as things pretended to have been done in that cause.

I think we should build on what has already happened in real, recent history.
An intangible philosophical approach renders all efforts to improve real life meaningless and makes little sense.
10 million was wasted.
10 years were squandered.

To learn from what has happened already can enable a better strategy in dealing w/ increasing efforts to control the trade in more misadventures.
Steve

 

[iamwrasseman]

i get your point 100% and believe that what is missed here is that with congress voting and steering our hobby we really have no control which is pretty much the norm in most things that are going on in our world today . as long as big money drives and people really are not heard then its like a boat with no rudders ,and you generally have to go with flow .sad to say but we don't drive anymore ,it's the back seat with blindfolds and earplugs for the common man .

 

[cwegescheide]

A haven't purchased any wild collected corals in many years. IMO they are not near as hearty. I have at one time contributed a few frags to garf for their re-population of the Palau Nephthea effort several years ago after an El Nino event near wiped out this coral in the wild.

 

[Jagarang]

I think it would be awesome if a gigantic fish could put me in lets say just my bed room, with a bed and thats it. With a jack hammer constantly going off outside of my room. Oh and my bed is a single.. one of those singles that your feet hang off of and a few springs poking in my back. And I am fed a nice diet of 4 different kinds of "nutri-system" ie. cardboard with water\salt\cornstarch for a sauce.

Read Steven King's Under the Dome

 

[iamwrasseman]

you got it ! like a hook hidden in your hamburger and they pull you out of your house and stick you in a pine closet only to be fed fortified gruel for the rest of your "natural" life .

 

[timdam]

Absolutely do not justify it or attempt to... Such an attempt would be ridiculous. Can you imagine the "carbon footprint" of one of our tanks. Between the electrical, water use, jet fuel burnt... It's insane if someone tells you this hobby is good for reefs, the planet, or anything other than our own enjoyment. Will I stop ? Hell no I love it too much and also don't give a ....

+1

I don't think u can justify this hobby by saying "i'm educating". I think we just collect b/c we like having a beautiful reef in our living room. that's just the way it is for alot of us.

 

[Aimiel]

Should a species ever actually be saved by captive propagation and returned to the reef after being wiped out by bleaching, or some other tragedy, I'm sure we'll all try to take credit for it. =)

 

[KafudaFish]

I don't justify the hobby nor do I feel guilty for participating in it. I try and minimize the level of impacts I have to the natural systems but then again I see reefs as a resource that is available. How that resource is impacted is another subject just like timber harvesting etc.

No matter what we do we have an impact/carbon footprint. There was a recent article that stated that over a dog or cat's lifetime the impact of that animal is the same as owning a SUV due to the amount of land needed to grow the animal's food etc.

To me if I have to justify something it means that I am in the wrong (usually according to another).

 

[ibnozn]

its a hobby, you do not need to justify it, but if you have to look at everything you do in life. Everything humans do have an impact on others in the world. unless you are willing to live in a cave and forage for roots and berries...whatever. It is a luxury but many many things in our lives are. I do try to do my best and be energy efficient in everything i do, and buy i mostly aquaculture/maiculture, but i am still going to enjoy myself and that includes keeping a reef tank. The economic agrument is very real too, if we didn't pay local villagers $20 for farmed coral they'd dredge the reef for concrete. But the best way I like to justify it..."hey at least I'm not a golfer."

Exactly, especially the part about golf. I've seen far too many perfectly good woods get mowed down for golf courses. I'll feel guilty when that lets up and bottom trawling and longlining are banned too. Now excuse me, my shark fin soup is getting cold.

 

[kev24k]

The ocean has always made me think. I've had many great personal moments in and on the water. One of my most memorable thoughts was the realization of how insignificant we are as animals on this planet. Humans have always felt special. We feel we are the end all be all on this planet (the other side of this is extreme guilt). As if we can control what nature decides to do. That is very arrogant. Do we have an impact? Of course we do. The question is how significant is it? I feel we currently have no clue what our true impact is on this planet. We will eventually know, but this will be at least hundreds of years from now, if not more. We have only been here for a tiny fraction of earth. We know so little of how our planet actually works (inaccuracy of weather predictions basic example). I think if we stay rational and level headed everything will be fine. Just remember we aren't as important as we think we are.

 

[iamwrasseman]

um i beg to differ with you there Kev ,as we have made the largest changes to this earth by greenhouse gasses in quite a while .we have drastically changed the earths temp and its not going to get better as we keep up with our pollution and population growth . we are putting a strain on this earth by our fossil fuels being burned at an astonishing rate that will only get larger .weather predictions are so invariable because of how the wind is created by heat produced by the sun shinning on our multi shaded planet as its impossible to predict where the wind will blow and how hard it will for what time .yes we can predict the upper atmosphere as it doesn't react in such a way but where the weather is is just to turbulent to ever predict . we can however predict over the short future say 2 or three hours but the 24/48/72 hr predictions have way to many variables to even imagine . that being said yes we are small but our foot print is getting larger every day and it does leave a track .i will certainly agree that with or without us this place will freeze and then burn many many more times in its existance .

 

[GreshamH]

A haven't purchased any wild collected corals in many years. IMO they are not near as hearty. I have at one time contributed a few frags to garf for their re-population of the Palau Nephthea effort several years ago after an El Nino event near wiped out this coral in the wild.

I remember their collection effort from hobbyists but never ever saw any report of them being re-populated in Palau. Got a link?

 

[rollei]

Farming is incredibly environmentally destructive. I think you should stop eating.

 

[chaseg89]

There are many things that are detrimental to the ocean and coral reefs in particular that most people either dont care about...or are uneducated about. Through keeping reef aquariums we can both educate those (that are willing to be educated) about a whole ecosystem they might never have come into contact with as well as keeping certain species alive through captive breeding and propagating that might perish on actual coral reefs in the near or distant future. Think about the way zoos carry endangered species and try to breed them to up the population and possibly protect and entire species for a similar example. I do not think we should necessarily feel bad about reefing because I think that there are much worse things we all do to the environment anyways that have no positive aspects involved at all that are not going to change. Just my opinion hopefully some of yall agree.

 

[iamwrasseman]

i have a strong comment to make about what you are saying ,and you have just hit the nail directly on the head ! bravo ,many people that have written in this tread are so askew of the whole picture that they have opinions that become to complicated to even partially understand . its simple as you stated and thanks for such an easy reading opinion that said so much without all the mumbo jumbo ~

 

[fuzzyfred101]

Farming is incredibly environmentally destructive. I think you should stop eating.

Haha nice. I remember a few years back reading a couple of articles about farming destroying wildlife in the Chesapeake bay from runoff.

 

[chaseg89]

iamwrasseman if that comment was directed towards me then thank you I appreciate it :lolspin: BTW this seemed like the appropriate place to tell everybody HAPPY EARTH DAY!

 

[iamwrasseman]

yw chaseg89

 

[xmasia]

im with the op on this one. if it has to be justified you shouldnt be in it. just my .01