a miracle delivery... need advice

[solRNY]

the tint in the glass?

she says its looks more greenish, but i think its looks more frosted, what do i know about colors

Starphire front and sides, regular glass on back.

hi mark, you are correct about the starphire, i know no difference until my wife pointed it out, and am now stuck noticing it, seems to be more pronouce as someone mentioned with thicker glass you see more of the difference...

okay to the basement with you and get the floor supported !

heheh, as my wife is not home i tend to procrastinate a lot more

but i did manage to create this drawing, its a very rough sketch, since we want a humidity sealed fish room i figure the room framing can aid to support the fish tank instead, doing it this way i have no obstruction in the room to place things...

i think it should work, being that the sytrofoam didnt even get crushed under 500lbs due to distrubtion of weight i figure if i distrubute the weight on lots of 2x4s(maybe 2x6?) that i dont need to support directly under the tank, let me know what you guys/gals think as i tend to do things wrong the first time.. and the second time

 

[Henry Colf]

I can't wait to see this thing filled and in action.....

 

[toddmh]

I can't wait to see this thing filled and in action.....

+1 this tank is pure epic goodness lol

 

[Henry Colf]

Man you ain't kiddin......

 

[Av8bluewater]

Great ideas. Thanks for sharing.
I love the vortech dry box but like said it may not be optimal flow.

 

[aquadonkey]

Maybe you would get more help with the technical stuff in the DIY section.
We all just want you to fill it!
Fill it!!!

 

[matt & pam]

How tall is your basement ceiling?

My tank is starphire glass, be careful b/c it does scratch easier than normal glass. It's worth every penny to have the clearer visual though.

 

[superkat]

here's my question before responding to the bracing deal....when was your house built?

 

[solRNY]

Its definitely a big difference!!!

too bad there wasnt a number scale for these type of things

I can't wait to see this thing filled and in action.....

me too, but i think there is another obstacle coming up sortly...

+1 this tank is pure epic goodness lol

wow, thanks you so much! i hope it turns out ok

Man you ain't kiddin......

Great ideas. Thanks for sharing.
I love the vortech dry box but like said it may not be optimal flow.

the dry box idea is not my own, i had thought about building one for my 30gal a while back but never implemented it, there a video on youtube with a tank that has over 10x mp40s in his two dry box, also, theres another thread on RC that has a cube tank with a dry box implemented as well, his (D2MINI, i think) design is much better in that it can not flood the mp40s,

i am playing with the mp40s as of now in a 10gal, cant not really study its flow in such a small tank, so hopefully there is an option built in this setup that will give me adequate flow

i find the new driver to be soooo confusing as it uses colors for different modes, pink and light pink! arg! i also find it to be loud, especially in nutrient export mode(two rapid short pulses), i think the dry box will make them sound even louder...

and also, like many of you have pointed out, these do get hot, and it seem to keep the 10gal water very warm, yikes!

Maybe you would get more help with the technical stuff in the DIY section.
We all just want you to fill it!
Fill it!!!

hehehe i too want to see if it will hold water, more so how high the water line is, possible enough for a small wave, and the waterfall effect from the overflow

How tall is your basement ceiling?

My tank is starphire glass, be careful b/c it does scratch easier than normal glass. It's worth every penny to have the clearer visual though.

the basement ceiling is 9ft,
thanks for the heads up, are you using any special type of a "magfloat", ones especially made for starphire?

here's my question before responding to the bracing deal....when was your house built?

our home was built in 2004, the joist are engineering i-beams, i could not find how much weight these can with stand, from the drawing there is already 3 of the of these i-beams directly under the tank and 2 near it, so that might be good enough? but i think i am needing more assurance by means of more reinforcments just in case

cant wait to hear what you think

i did manage to seal up some hair line cracks on the basement walls today, this is going way too slow i was reading on how to remodel the basement and there are a ton of ways to do it, so i am now left confused more than ever...

 

[superkat]

ok...2004 is good as far as the construction being new...here's the thing that worries me...over the course of the years with the tank being in the center of the floor, and as the floor settles, which, in older houses, most of the settling has already taken place, you are going to get fluctuations in the leveling of the tank itself. Where the beams you plan on adding might be sufficient, in fact, they probably are...the tank is not sitting on a support wall and is a good deal away from the support beams. I understand your desire of wanting to not break up space in the basement...believe me, i didn't want to either...

the 120g is sitting on a support wall...but the front is not...and rather than have to deal with it later...years later...although the effects of settling, even gradually will start to show on your water line at the top of the tank...i decided to be safe than sorry. So we went with the support beam in the basement, as well as adding to the existing beams directly underneath. Ok, so this was a month ago. We had to adjust the bracing once already...and with a full tank? Not so easy. I would hate to see the slightest bit of settling disrupt the integrity of how the tank sat...

if you can live with it... i'd brace it...if not..the next best thing would be to do as you illustrated and also reinforce the crossbeams directly under the tank that run in the opposite direction. I also would recommend implementing "jacks" (basically 1x4's angled and crossed) at alternating intersections under the tank.

if you can email me a workable drawing (like the one you posted) i may be able to illustrate what i mean if what i just said makes no sense to anyone but me....lol.

 

[stone.david]

would love to see some updates and pictures

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

our home was built in 2004, the joist are engineering i-beams, i could not find how much weight these can with stand, from the drawing there is already 3 of the of these i-beams directly under the tank and 2 near it, so that might be good enough? but i think i am needing more assurance by means of more reinforcments just in case

Can you post the dimensions? Is there any blocking between the beams? What's the distance the beams span?

It's probably not going to be a problem, assuming they're correctly sized and correctly blocked. Modern home construction techniques are vastly more stable (i.e. resistant to sagging, going out of level, etc) than anything typically built in the past. My home is typical of an "old" home in that it has a post-and-beam frame that was assembled from gigantic raw lumber, and a mosty-dry set stone foundation. It shows - the house is crooked. :lol: A modern home built with composite beams and a stable foundation shouldn't change over time to anywhere near the same degree.

Then again, many modern homes aren't nearly built to code, so you never know. . .

 

[matt & pam]

I use a hammerhead float magnet for glass. Just be sure to change out the velcro relatively often so you don't have calcarious stuff growing in it that will cause the scratches. And do not let sand get in the velcro as you clean.

 

[solRNY]

ok...2004 is good as far as the construction being new...here's the thing that worries me...over the course of the years with the tank being in the center of the floor, and as the floor settles, which, in older houses, most of the settling has already taken place, you are going to get fluctuations in the leveling of the tank itself. Where the beams you plan on adding might be sufficient, in fact, they probably are...the tank is not sitting on a support wall and is a good deal away from the support beams. I understand your desire of wanting to not break up space in the basement...believe me, i didn't want to either...

the 120g is sitting on a support wall...but the front is not...and rather than have to deal with it later...years later...although the effects of settling, even gradually will start to show on your water line at the top of the tank...i decided to be safe than sorry. So we went with the support beam in the basement, as well as adding to the existing beams directly underneath. Ok, so this was a month ago. We had to adjust the bracing once already...and with a full tank? Not so easy. I would hate to see the slightest bit of settling disrupt the integrity of how the tank sat...

if you can live with it... i'd brace it...if not..the next best thing would be to do as you illustrated and also reinforce the crossbeams directly under the tank that run in the opposite direction. I also would recommend implementing "jacks" (basically 1x4's angled and crossed) at alternating intersections under the tank.

if you can email me a workable drawing (like the one you posted) i may be able to illustrate what i mean if what i just said makes no sense to anyone but me....lol.

thanks kate for your detailed thoughts as always it is much appreiciated , i did not realize it continues to settle for sometime, having something adjustable is almost a must, so i meet up with a few poeple this past monday including our contractor, we decided to go LOTS and STRONG and came up with this:

we will install 4x 16'1/3" engineer ibeams(violet) to those exiting(gray), trying to do all the calculation but its soo confusing, maybe after some more coffee the brain cells will start working

i finally found the datasheet, the ibeams are the nordic 11 7/8 NI-40X:
http://www.zytechtruss.com/downloads/Nordic/CCMC_evaluation.pdf

Can you post the dimensions? Is there any blocking between the beams? What's the distance the beams span?

It's probably not going to be a problem, assuming they're correctly sized and correctly blocked. Modern home construction techniques are vastly more stable (i.e. resistant to sagging, going out of level, etc) than anything typically built in the past. My home is typical of an "old" home in that it has a post-and-beam frame that was assembled from gigantic raw lumber, and a mosty-dry set stone foundation. It shows - the house is crooked. :lol: A modern home built with composite beams and a stable foundation shouldn't change over time to anywhere near the same degree.

Then again, many modern homes aren't nearly built to code, so you never know. . .

hi there der, the ibeams are 11 7/8" x 2.5", there nothing blocking between beams, the beams span are 16" on center, i fgure we have 2 options: either try to install the exact dimensions beams(left side image) or go with something shorter and sheem the ends(right side image), i perfer the first.

i do agree with homes not being built to code as i can see some evidence of that, i tend to think the builder and inspector often have lunch together...

I use a hammerhead float magnet for glass. Just be sure to change out the velcro relatively often so you don't have calcarious stuff growing in it that will cause the scratches. And do not let sand get in the velcro as you clean.

i was going to get the mag float for acrylic, come to think about it i dont think you can change out the pad, thanks for the advice!

 

[superkat]

this is great news...i'm so glad you got in touch with someone! that is exactly what i was talking about...and the I beams in illustration #1 would also be my recommendation. I know it's alot of extra work...but in the future, you will be glad you did it!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I use a hammerhead float magnet for glass. Just be sure to change out the velcro relatively often so you don't have calcarious stuff growing in it that will cause the scratches. And do not let sand get in the velcro as you clean.

here's a tip:

(for ALL brands of magnets) purchase some acrylic safe (or regular) aquarium cleaning pads and stick them to the wet side (velcro) before using your magnet. Remove and clean the removable pad after each use. The velcro will last forever and your glass (or acrylic) will be less prone to get scratched.

 

[Haffs09]

Your build is progressing nicely! When I reinforced the floors for my tank, I sistered 2x8 along 3 or 4 of the 2x8 joists. Let me tell you, going from your 2nd beam position from the left to the vertical position was a major PITA on both ends (on the foundation wall side and the I beam side)! I was successful, but it took a lot of time, sweat, hammering and clamps to get it there!

Along my joist that was against an outside wall, there was no space to get a 2x8 in there, so I used a 2x6 like you have illustrated on the right. That was way easier.

My advice...unless you or your contractor have a good way to get the beams in the vertical position, would be to go for something a bit smaller and shim the ends. I would then sister the new beams with the existing beams, glue and lag them together. I would also cross brace them with 2x12 at multiple points along the span. I would have no worries doing it this way.

Good luck!

 

[Haffs09]

Oh yeah for a magnet, there are many options out there. I picked up a mighty magnet F-4 for my tank that has the same glass thickness as yours. Check it out, you may like it. I haven't used it yet, because I'm still dry!

 

[solRNY]

would love to see some updates and pictures

hi there, as of now forward progress is really slow but we are keeping at it , as for pictures, i have tons, i can post some more

this is great news...i'm so glad you got in touch with someone! that is exactly what i was talking about...and the I beams in illustration #1 would also be my recommendation. I know it's alot of extra work...but in the future, you will be glad you did it!

i am hoping the contractor can get to it sooner as i would like to start the basement framing, hate to sit around it seems like every part of this project is a project in itself!

here's a tip:

(for ALL brands of magnets) purchase some acrylic safe (or regular) aquarium cleaning pads and stick them to the wet side (velcro) before using your magnet. Remove and clean the removable pad after each use. The velcro will last forever and your glass (or acrylic) will be less prone to get scratched.

great idea, i always like the look of the magfloat.. being white it matches with our stand

update:
talked to nathan at miracles, sounds like a great guy, probably someone that i can have a beer or two with

this past monday i also meet with nathan(middle), and salso(right), the STAR tank builders from Miracles, really great guys, and incredibley nice!

i know i have said it far tooo many times, i am confident that Miracles customer service is second to none in this industry or at least comes very close to that, as evident they would go great distance to provide such service, i hope they continue this

 

[solRNY]

Your build is progressing nicely! When I reinforced the floors for my tank, I sistered 2x8 along 3 or 4 of the 2x8 joists. Let me tell you, going from your 2nd beam position from the left to the vertical position was a major PITA on both ends (on the foundation wall side and the I beam side)! I was successful, but it took a lot of time, sweat, hammering and clamps to get it there!

Along my joist that was against an outside wall, there was no space to get a 2x8 in there, so I used a 2x6 like you have illustrated on the right. That was way easier.

My advice...unless you or your contractor have a good way to get the beams in the vertical position, would be to go for something a bit smaller and shim the ends. I would then sister the new beams with the existing beams, glue and lag them together. I would also cross brace them with 2x12 at multiple points along the span. I would have no worries doing it this way.

Good luck!

thanks so much for your advice, you have givin me assurance that this will work out!

both you and kat has mention about the cross brace but i am not sure if you can do this with ibeams? i know nothing about ibeams, but if it can be done i will add that to the to-do-list for the contractor do you happen to have any pictures?

Oh yeah for a magnet, there are many options out there. I picked up a mighty magnet F-4 for my tank that has the same glass thickness as yours. Check it out, you may like it. I haven't used it yet, because I'm still dry!

i just googled the F-4, they are incredibly expensive too, but they are white
sounds like you have a mysteriously great build going, do you have a build thread or pictures?!! would love to see your 3/4" glass box you have as i have tons of questions...