A Splash of Color

[abhishek@1985]

Well I definitely did way overdose in my young tank with only 1 inch frags .
Everyday dosed to the full amount of 2-3 drops in a 80 gallon .
Along with that ,I always soak my mysis and other frozen food in selcon
which contains vitamins too especially B12 .
So , every chance that overdosing caused the yellow to over power the green zooxanthalae .
Gonna do 15-20% water change and keep away from dosing for a week to see any difference .

Regards,
Abhishek

 

[reefmutt]

The beauty, challenge and greatest source for frustration/exhilaration in this hobby is that there is more than one path to success.
There is certainly a group of 'must dos' to maintain a base line for health but beyond that, each system is so unique from a chemical and biological point of view that it is often impossible to copy exactly what another successful reefer does and achieve similar success.
I say this because the more reefers who try different things and have success, the more we all learn..
And you are right, Andrew, I will try Vitality.. eventually. But at the moment, I am two weeks into my path (which does include some vitamins) and I am biting my tongue and keeping myself from getting too excited by the initial signs of very positive results.. it's a bit too early..
As to your comment about adding Zinc, manganese etc, neither Joe nor Matt (nor I) are condoning adding excess amounts (I don't think). I think the intention of dosing and icp testing is to come up with a dosing regimen that maintains acceptable levels for good coral health and not necessarily high doses..
Now, what do you mean by 'lightening' of corals after dosing the vitamins?
Not sure you mentioned.. are you dosing the AF recommended dose?
Also, way back in nov-dec of 2015 (pretty sure my memory serves me serves me correctly) when you started your secret dosing of biggles juice, there was a significant darkening/enriching of the corals in your tank. I remember it so well. I even remember which hockey arena I was sitting in when a bunch of then new photos from your tank blew me away.
Just saying, don't discount the trace minerals completely. I went into that summer following your lead with my version of biggles juice and also had very positive results. The fear is, or concern is getting the right levels and not over shooting..
Ok (good natured and positive feelings!) rant finished.

Your blues and purples continue to give me the shits! Not your opinions on trace minerals. Just crazy.
Question: when facing the end of your tank, there is an island in the right side with a pink tabler and a blue stag. What is that pink tabler? I want it.. now! Looks like a hyacinthus from Fiji, although I can't really see how fine the branches are.
Your thread is a deep treasure trove of information and experimentation. And like any dense source of general information, people must not take it all in blindly, they have to constantly be thoughtful and evaluative of the information here.. like any thread. Like any source of information based on experience and theory..
There, got my caffeine fix and my therapeutic catharsis all in my favorite thread!

 

[biggles]

Thank you for the link Andrew and also thank you for your dosing suggestions. My bottle should arrive on Monday. While looking at the link, the site suggested another article. I thought I should share it in case some folks may be interested.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7499632_Algae_acquire_Vitamin_B12_through_a_symbiotic_relationship_with_bacteria

Thanks for the link Bulent, i'm glad you're giving it a go mate. It mike have a positive impact on some of your colors i hope, at worst you'll see nothing bad from the half strength dosing.

I ordered a bottle of salifert strontium today after your advice mate, i also ordered salifert boron after spying on Matty's journal today lol........ :beer:

Well I definitely did way overdose in my young tank with only 1 inch frags .
Everyday dosed to the full amount of 2-3 drops in a 80 gallon .
Along with that ,I always soak my mysis and other frozen food in selcon
which contains vitamins too especially B12 .
So , every chance that overdosing caused the yellow to over power the green zooxanthalae .
Gonna do 15-20% water change and keep away from dosing for a week to see any difference .

Regards,
Abhishek

Hi Abhishek, i want you to look at how many acros and the size of them in relation to yours acro 'weight' if you like. I dose 3 drops daily...........

In regards to AF stuff like the aminos, vitamins, energy and build i would strongly recommend you don't use their 1 drop per 100L dose unless you are starting with a reef stocked fairly well with acros, twenty 2" frags don't consume what twenty 3-4" mini colonies will.
Just a thought but the 1 drop per 100ml is good in so far as you dose this rate across the entire range - less chance of people making mistakes. As far as how much you actually put in - think about how many hungry acro mouths you are really feeding. As your acros grow (mine don't) you can then increase your per 100ml doses across the range of potions you're using.

Less is more in relation to ANY new additive you're trying so always start anything at half dose or less and wait a couple of weeks before assessing things

I will continue to do whatever i feel like but for everyone else - be careful with potions !

The beauty, challenge and greatest source for frustration/exhilaration in this hobby is that there is more than one path to success.
There is certainly a group of 'must dos' to maintain a base line for health but beyond that, each system is so unique from a chemical and biological point of view that it is often impossible to copy exactly what another successful reefer does and achieve similar success.
I say this because the more reefers who try different things and have success, the more we all learn..
And you are right, Andrew, I will try Vitality.. eventually. But at the moment, I am two weeks into my path (which does include some vitamins) and I am biting my tongue and keeping myself from getting too excited by the initial signs of very positive results.. it's a bit too early..
As to your comment about adding Zinc, manganese etc, neither Joe nor Matt (nor I) are condoning adding excess amounts (I don't think). I think the intention of dosing and icp testing is to come up with a dosing regimen that maintains acceptable levels for good coral health and not necessarily high doses..
Now, what do you mean by 'lightening' of corals after dosing the vitamins?
Not sure you mentioned.. are you dosing the AF recommended dose?
Also, way back in nov-dec of 2015 (pretty sure my memory serves me serves me correctly) when you started your secret dosing of biggles juice, there was a significant darkening/enriching of the corals in your tank. I remember it so well. I even remember which hockey arena I was sitting in when a bunch of then new photos from your tank blew me away.
Just saying, don't discount the trace minerals completely. I went into that summer following your lead with my version of biggles juice and also had very positive results. The fear is, or concern is getting the right levels and not over shooting..
Ok (good natured and positive feelings!) rant finished.

Your blues and purples continue to give me the shits! Not your opinions on trace minerals. Just crazy.
Question: when facing the end of your tank, there is an island in the right side with a pink tabler and a blue stag. What is that pink tabler? I want it.. now! Looks like a hyacinthus from Fiji, although I can't really see how fine the branches are.
Your thread is a deep treasure trove of information and experimentation. And like any dense source of general information, people must not take it all in blindly, they have to constantly be thoughtful and evaluative of the information here.. like any thread. Like any source of information based on experience and theory..
There, got my caffeine fix and my therapeutic catharsis all in my favorite thread!

Thanks Matt, since both Matt and Joe monitor their levels to keep NSW parameters i wanted to point out that wasn't what i meant by using copper to keep unnaturally low levels of zoox. Anyway, you said everything way better than i did so thanks for the pep talk mate - appreciate it

Manganese is the element that causes 'deepening' of colors, in particular reds, pinks and purples (half red). It isn't a 'pop' but those particular pigments seem to show the most response and or effect. It won't make reds appear if your water is up the sh$t, if you have red colors such as the reds/pinks on SSC's then you might see them looking more deeper minty green with very red highlights rather than pink and pale wishy washy green.
Hard to explain but if you have some decent reds and pinks i'd be surprised if two nights dosing just manganese wouldn't give you a very onvious visual result. It's like when a sudden nitrate spike makes everything deepen just before the drabness hits - the deepening isn't brown zoox numbers and or loss of coral pigment though, it's a different effect entirely.

Probably confused everyone with that little ramble. Anyway, because i was also dosing a heap of copper and zinc via the salifert trace hard i saw crazy 'deep pastels', remember when i would describe some purples as looking like purple wax crayons - that's because the red zoox numbers were way less than normal (healthy) due to those high heavy metal levels. I know that photo was way over bright and not perfect but i can't believe how copper poisoned pale i was keeping stuff lol. The annoying part is i had close to 190ml a day draw back then :hammer:

By lightening after using vitamins i should have said an increase in color definition. I saw a sudden clarity much like when a big dose of copper is used but no lightening, just more clarity in polyp to pigment contrasts etc.
It's hard to explain but if vitamins work for your particular system i'm sure you'll notice it withing days tbh. If nothing is visually apparent after a couple of weeks then i doubt it's helping.

I think you mean the acro i moved from the left islad because it was getting too much light i think. It's only been on that rock in the back right corner for a week but i'll get a pic for you - it's annoying me more and more as every lack luster day passes.......:twitch:

I killed my Matt's Madness and i've been waiting for something worthy of being your namesake Matt. Pink and yellow stag has your name written all over it, just need a new name with some pizazz !

Pretty sure it was collected in 15-20 mtrs off the Western Australian coast. I will ask Dave next time i visit to find out for sure.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Thanks for the link Bulent, i'm glad you're giving it a go mate. It mike have a positive impact on some of your colors i hope, at worst you'll see nothing bad from the half strength dosing.

I ordered a bottle of salifert strontium today after your advice mate, i also ordered salifert boron after spying on Matty's journal today lol........ :beer:

Hi Andrew,

I dosed the first drop last night. Since my tank is 250 litres, it is awkward to dose half the strength (1.25 drops). For this reason, this is what I have decided to do:

Day 1- 1 drop
Day 3- 1 drop
Day 5- 2 drops
Day 7- 1 drop
=========
5 drops = 4 X 1.25 drops

What do you think?

I have created a Note on my Facebook page and will be recording any changes (positive or negative).

On a separate note, why do you need to dose boron? Do you have a pH problem? Sorry if you mentioned this before.

Regards

Bulent

 

[biggles]

Hey Bulent, your dosing sounds fine mate. I don't know if i'm wasting vitamins or not dosing enough tbh, just trying it out for a while after what i thought were promising results.

Both Boron and Strontium were low on my old triton test and since Joe and Matt use it for growth as one aim i believe, i thought i would order both at the one time so i can make sure neither of those is giving me grief in regards to poor growth. Anyway, it's too late to stop me Bulent, they'll be here next week !

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Hey Bulent, your dosing sounds fine mate. I don't know if i'm wasting vitamins or not dosing enough tbh, just trying it out for a while after what i thought were promising results.

Both Boron and Strontium were low on my old triton test and since Joe and Matt use it for growth as one aim i believe, i thought i would order both at the one time so i can make sure neither of those is giving me grief in regards to poor growth. Anyway, it's too late to stop me Bulent, they'll be here next week !

I think I will need to have an ICP test done too. I am getting curious about my water parameters after dosing so many potions into it. Some of my corals are recently showing unusually very good polyp extension all over during light hours. I can even see my red dragon extending polyps, but not as long as the one that Matt has. I am trying to find out what I am doing right.

We have now two choices for ICP testing in the UK as ATI has started an ICP test service too. They even check your RODI water at no extra cost as well as alkalinity and nitrates.

As for vitamin dosing, if it does not work, I will send you my invoice. Please let me know your postal address Andrew. I may even deliver it to you in person by myself. :twitch:

Finally, I wanted to start testing a Tropic Marin product called Reef Mud Vital, but sadly I was too slow to add it to my existing order. By the time I got my acts together, Germans had already shipped my goods. :deadhorse:

In his tank thread, Paul B talked very highly of adding mud to his 40+ year-old-tank regularly. He said it rejuvenated his tank (possibly due to fresh bacteria and other stuff in mud). I wanted to see if it would make any difference to my animals too. I will now have to pay extra delivery charge to have it delivered separately.:facepalm:

 

[biggles]

I think I will need to have an ICP test done too. I am getting curious about my water parameters after dosing so many potions into it. Some of my corals are recently showing unusually very good polyp extension all over during light hours. I can even see my red dragon extending polyps, but not as long as the one that Matt has. I am trying to find out what I am doing right.

We have now two choices for ICP testing in the UK as ATI has started an ICP test service too. They even check your RODI water at no extra cost as well as alkalinity and nitrates.

As for vitamin dosing, if it does not work, I will send you my invoice. Please let me know your postal address Andrew. I may even deliver it to you in person by myself. :twitch:

Finally, I wanted to start testing a Tropic Marin product called Reef Mud Vital, but sadly I was too slow to add it to my existing order. By the time I got my acts together, Germans had already shipped my goods. :deadhorse:

In his tank thread, Paul B talked very highly of adding mud to his 40+ year-old-tank regularly. He said it rejuvenated his tank (possibly due to fresh bacteria and other stuff in mud). I wanted to see if it would make any difference to my animals too. I will now have to pay extra delivery charge to have it delivered separately.:facepalm:

I have never seen the daytime PE i do since starting the vitamins Bulent, a big part of the visual change i noticed is seeing more colors with many more colorful polyps out for much more contrast and shimmer on many polyps. Better colors with better display of them also is what i am trying to say may happen to varying degrees depending on your setup.

Your better PE might have started before the vitamins i realise Bulent but it reminded me of an important thing that really improved - daytime PE on almost everything is way better.

Don't put dirt in the sump please Bulent............... before it is mud it starts out as dry mud - dirt .............:hammer:

 

[DiscusHeckel]

Don't put dirt in the sump please Bulent............... before it is mud it starts out as dry mud - dirt .............:hammer:

No, I won't :thumbsup:

 

[Kurt03]

Any recommendations on coloring up browned/greened frags faster? I had some qt tank issues and then a nutrient spike in my main tank which is now under control. Several acros have been slow to get the colors back. New growth has the proper colors. Am I right to just wait it out and the rest of the colony will follow or is there anything that can speed it up? Maybe for a short time run more nutrient poor?

 

[maxwell]

Hi Andrew
I started adding the vitality and stopped after 3 days on re thinking whats in my salt as I'm using TM bio actif . I read it already had minerals and vits added but not sure do you or others have any knowledge on this salt.

thanks Bill

 

[reefmutt]

I looked up that FM Reef Mud.. seems like such an odd product. And the directions for use seem even more odd.
At first I thought it was like Miracle mud- which I understand. You add it as a temporary bed in a sump and it releases its minerals etc and aids in denitrification. After a certain period of time, you replace it.
But the FM product, you are supposed to broadcast throughout your system via high flow. I get the beneficial addition of minerals and I actually like the idea of introducing new natural organisms to your reef but the actual particulates of this mud end up everywhere.
I don't get that part. It's like spraying.. well.. like Andrew said: dirt all over your reef tank.
Bulent, am I missing something?

 

[maxxII]

Hey Bulent, your dosing sounds fine mate. I don't know if i'm wasting vitamins or not dosing enough tbh, just trying it out for a while after what i thought were promising results.

Both Boron and Strontium were low on my old triton test and since Joe and Matt use it for growth as one aim i believe, i thought i would order both at the one time so i can make sure neither of those is giving me grief in regards to poor growth. Anyway, it's too late to stop me Bulent, they'll be here next week !

I dont want to speak for Joe, but I believe he's keeping up on the boron for his Chaeto reactor. Low boron levels will stunt chaeto growth.
There might additional reasons for dosing boron, but I have discussed the chaeto bit with him.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

RHF wrote on Boron in 2002.

He also compared Salifert Boron test kit against his own ICP machine the following year.

 

[biggles]

No, I won't :thumbsup:

You're lying aren't you Bulent..........

Any recommendations on coloring up browned/greened frags faster? I had some qt tank issues and then a nutrient spike in my main tank which is now under control. Several acros have been slow to get the colors back. New growth has the proper colors. Am I right to just wait it out and the rest of the colony will follow or is there anything that can speed it up? Maybe for a short time run more nutrient poor?

Hi mate, it usually comes down to some acros being sulky for longer after mistreatment. If 90% of your stuff is ok then don't mess with the water to rush the other 10% back. Better of waiting and buying a couple of new frags to watch instead

Hi Andrew
I started adding the vitality and stopped after 3 days on re thinking whats in my salt as I'm using TM bio actif . I read it already had minerals and vits added but not sure do you or others have any knowledge on this salt.

thanks Bill

Hey Bill, the vitamins from your water change are gone withing a day or so from the skimmer and lights most likely. That's why i believe dosing say 3 drops nightly will give very different results to dosing 21 drops once a week.

Your salt is 'bio actif' for a day or two Bill, after that it's probably just salt..............

Bulent, am I missing something?

I'm pretty sure it's not quite as bad as you make it sound Matt, knowing how careful an SPS keeper Bulent is i'm sure he's going to sieve out the worms and snails etc prior to dirt dosing. :reading:

I dont want to speak for Joe, but I believe he's keeping up on the boron for his Chaeto reactor. Low boron levels will stunt chaeto growth.
There might additional reasons for dosing boron, but I have discussed the chaeto bit with him.

Pretty much what Bulent pointed out, any time i see a very good SPS reefer mate using something different i read all about it and sometimes it gets you thinking about this and that......... plus Christian from sustainable reefs doses it and his latest batch of frags looked like they were photoshopped in real life

RHF wrote on Boron in 2002.

He also compared Salifert Boron test kit against his own ICP machine the following year.

Thanks a lot Bulent

Anytime any of you consider following mine or anyone else's advice you owe it to your acros and fish to at least have a quick read of a few articles easily googled to see what's what from your own perspective. Especially consider the state of your water and nutrients along with lighting differences.

ALWAYS check that you aren't already adding some of the same stuff with other potions you're using, exactly like Bill did

 

[DiscusHeckel]

You're lying aren't you Bulent..........

I am telling the truth I always follow good advice. :wave:

I received my order from Germany this morning. I received no Blue+ tubes (I ordered two) and two purple+ tubes instead. :uzi:

 

[PatrikD]

Biggles, I stumbled across this coral. I have bought one thick branched coral before and it didn't end well. Do you have any advice?

 

[biggles]

I am telling the truth I always follow good advice. :wave:

I received my order from Germany this morning. I received no Blue+ tubes (I ordered two) and two purple+ tubes instead. :uzi:

Was just stirring you mate

I wouldn't be happy either if i were you Bulent, not exactly a good replacement lol.........:deadhorse1:

Biggles, I stumbled across this coral. I have bought one thick branched coral before and it didn't end well. Do you have any advice?

Considering i have kept the exact same color variant A. gemmifera as the one you stumbled across i do have some advice for you Patrik.

It needs medium to high light and lots of flow. They are stout growing to survive the overhead wave surging flow that comes with high light living on the reef.
It is metallic greeny/gold skinned with purple corallite lips and growing tips. The polyps are red and the very top of each growing tip will be bright light blue. Pretty sure the growing axial tips have blue polyps from memory.

It's not a run of the mill gemmifera mate, i see purples and blues all the time but you have the one with multi colored everything. Your pic only shows half the colors your eye will see if you make it shine - very cool score Patrik :thumbsup:

 

[alessandro]

Hi Andrew,
Great thread and many interesting things!
Last night I started to dose AF Vitality, started with 5 drops for my 1000 liters SPS tank.
This night and the next days I plan to dose 2 drops/day.
Will see..
Do you think we can diluite in Rodi water AF Vitality to avoid manual dosing ?
I am too lazy to dose it every night...

 

[PatrikD]

Thanks Biggles for your cool comments about my Gemmifera. Good to have expertise to ask!

The colourful coral in your post, what is it?

 

[drawman]

Shoot now you're making me want to pick up AF Vitamins Andrew. The Energy and Aminos are doing well for me so far but striving for better colors always!