A.Theillei ,anybody tried it?

[MarinaP]

Not an urban myth, just different results than yours.

Yet his results from a single batch are commonly used as a proof that leucs are hybrids and they produce offsprings that split 33%. Even Walt in his post above states that as a fact. I just want to point out that not enough breeding in captivity took place to use Fernando's results as a reference point to support hybridization theory in this species.

 

[WDLV]

I have Fernando's article if you want to look over the pictures.... The exerpt I refer to is as follows.
“Pigmentation types of tank-reared A. leucokranos and percent occurrence from a total of 32 individuals.
Leucokranos type – 28.1 percent
Chrysopterus type – 12.5 percent
Sandaracinos type – 15.6 percent
Perideraion type – 9.4 percent
Interdeterminate – 34.4 percent”

As for Alexandre's results, I think these go a little further than a simple misbar.

 

[MarinaP]

This leucs' argument is like Christmas - happens once a year here

 

[WDLV]

I still need to pick your brain in person. You are obviously are doing something right.

 

[phender]

I understand. At the time of the article I believe he was the only one to have raised any babies. If the hypothesis is that they are a species, you could have 100 breedings that turned out like yours, but it only takes one like Fernando's to disprove the hypothesis. In addition there is yet to be published DNA research that is being done through Gerald Allen by Jimmy O'Donnell that shows that the DNA of leucs are just what you would expect if it were a hybrid. (personal communication)

 

[MarinaP]

I am totally with you, Phil. I am not supporting either species or hybrid theories, I simply do not know. I post about my experience to broaden the knowledge base.

How much does it cost to DNA a clown, I wonder?...

 

[Reefvette]

Marina it cost alot! I tried its like a couple grand. Its used to be 25000


I have a fish that throws a wrench in all of this. A orange skunk with luecokranos banding. Sold to me as a mis bar orange skunk.

She was a large female that showed up Doa

 

[Reefvette]

Stripe does reach the nose but its got something that youve seen in yor juvis marina but the orange is so vibrant

 

[MarinaP]

Here is a pair to her

It is eco-tropic's pic. He said it was a hybrid. The thread is somewhere in the archives here.

 

[Reefvette]

Crazyness! Lets all keep doing this anyone else!

 

[WDLV]

I've been amassing something of a pictoral archive.... There are a lot of these out there. On DNA, I thought I would be able to get a friend who runs a genetics lab for Hopkins to map them (thiellei) but it was quite expensive.

 

[WDLV]

I didn't mean to imply that all the current hybrids in the wild have come from one pair. I am saying that it is possible that the original cross only happened with one pair of fish that may have produced for 10-20 years. Since that time and during that time, the hybrid offspring produced more hybrids by breeding leuc x leuc, leuc x chrys, and leuc x sand.. Most of the leucs I see now look to be more chrysopterus-like than the pics of leucs I saw in the 80's. This would partially explain why leucs and theillei only occur in limited locales rather than everywhere the parent species ranges overlap.

Not a bad hypothesis... not to mention that were that the case, some of the offspring carrying the recessive trait would occasionally spit out a leuc/thiellei.

I am not sure how my logic fits into populations of ocellaris and clarki,(unless you mean because clarkis will go into any host anemone, where ocellaris only have a couple) but I know that clarki is much more widespread than ocellaris. I don't know about shear numbers, but I am guessing that clarkis would win out there as well.

The point was as they relate to the number of different hosts they inhabit and how common the species are. Clarkii clearly wins that comparison from a potential host standpoint.

 

[WDLV]

Hey Clownfishfan, are we off topic yet?

 

[Clownfishfan]

Wow so much info! I love it!

I wonder why percintage of theillei a occ/sand pair would produce considering a chrys/sand throws only a smallish amount of leucs ? Does anyone around here breed leucs ,I would like to know if they are any harder to raise vs percs,occys,and clarkii?

Well I should be able to get the occy next week,and I got the sandy last week, how long does it take for a clownfish to change to female?The sandarcinos has been at the store for about 1-3 months (I think closer to 1 but not sure).

@walt ,I'm glad it's kinda gone off topic this is great stuff!

P.s did ya here?ORA has a leuc pair now,it won't be long before we can get a cb leuc for less than $100.

 

[Clownfishfan]

Also thanks for all the great photos!

 

[WDLV]

Let me throw a monkey wrench out there. I bought this video from Bruce Carlson years back and wasn't able to view it at the time because my computer lacked the software to view it. I found it tonight looking for some Pics of Sanjay's tank at Penn State. In any event, I was able to view it and the reason I bought it from him. He said the following interaction was video taped by his wife and this leuc female was swimming back and forth between a chrysopterus harem and the one pictured here. I think that this sort of interaction may occasionally occur on the reef during spawning. Imagine a male doing the same thing between two adjacent anemones. I'm gonna confirm the above with Bruce and will post a correction if any of the details were recalled incorrectly.

 

[Clownfishfan]

Interesting.......

 

[WDLV]

P.s did ya here?ORA has a leuc pair now,it won't be long before we can get a cb leuc for less than $100.

I've had 7 leucs now. So, I'm not too pressed about it but I would like to see them more common in the industry so the collectors would leave them on the reef. It might seem to contrast my statement that I'm hoarding A. thiellei but I assure you, my intentions are aimed at proliferation in the hobby.... which is also aimed at conservation.

 

[Clownfishfan]

If you want more theillei ibluewater has 3.

 

[WDLV]

Those were sold like a year ago and some are misidentified.
This looks a whole lot like a leuc (given the body plan) but it's hard to tell because of the age/size. Also the price is about $100-$150 higher than typical market value.

This "pair" is IMO that of a thiellei (foreground) and a leucokranos (background.) I would not be surprised if both were actually leucs (due to the yellow-brown coloration.)
I think he'd have done well to pair them accordingly. I think he'd have done even better to have bred them himself and sold the babies. He says he collected them himself. If true, my hat's off to him.