A.Theillei ,anybody tried it?

[Clownfishfan]

Wow really?I wonder why they haven't removed them?

 

[WDLV]

Bruce confirmed the above mentioned details and took the time to raise the bar a bit by providing this video. What a guy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH60BaB5SvE&feature=youtu.be

 

[Winwood]

This is very fascinating. I used to think that both A. thielli and leucokranos were pretty much obvious hybrids due to their rarity in nature and a generalized lack of uniformity in specimens. In the case of A. thielli, it appears to be extremely rare and I strongly believe this species to be a hybrid.

In the case of A. leucokranos, I am not so certain anymore. I posted this video I found on youtube a while back that shows atleast 4 leukokranos inhabiting several H. crispa that appear to be growing in a colonial form (also strange). Here it is for those who didn't see it the first time around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdoSWr5Lg04

Let me just state for the record that this is not my video and that I just stumbled upon it because I like watching anemonefish in their natural habitat.

In this video however, all the leucs seem to be rather uniform. It raises several questions in my mind. The obvious one being is leucokranos a valid species? I also wonder if leucokranos is a relatively common hybrid but with a preference to spawn with similar hybrids? Another obvious question, especially if one watches both videos is, if leucs are hybrids, then does perideraion play a large role? In the case of the orange skunks that have marking on their gill plates, how often do perideraion and sandaracinos hybridize because they share a very common and abundant host in H. crispa? I also would suspect these two species to be good candidates for hybridization because of their poor swimming ability and strong tendency to stay within the direct vicinity of their hosts.

Anyways these are things that really stick out in my mind and I share them merely as food for thought.

 

[WDLV]

I have seen photos of paired leucs sharing an anemone and subsequent collection.... possible the same specimens. I don't think this is evidence for them not being a hybrid. Further evidence (referenced above) from Fernando's breeding success furthers this belief. Then of course there is their general association with chrysopterus and sandaracinos in the wild.
That said, I believe that this is one reason we have 28... 29... 30 anemonefish species (or whatever the count is this month.) I believe that hybridization is a key to species creation with these fishes. At what point a species can be said to be a species I leave up to the biologists and geneticists to mull over.

 

[WDLV]

...and your video is exactly the kind of association that I think probably leads to hybridization. More interestingly... It begs the question as to whether H. crispa is asexually reproducing. That's a heck of a cluster.
...and I count five species inhabiting that cluster not including the damsels.
1. A. leucokranos
2. A. melanopus
3. A perideriaon
4. A. sandaracinos
5. A. clarkii (melanistic)


In my interest over the details I almost forgot to say I liked the video. Thanks for sharing!

 

[MarinaP]

It begs the question as to whether H. crispa is asexually reproducing.

Probably

I moved it to another system and these buds dissapeared.

 

[WDLV]

Nice.

 

[phender]

I had a guy on this forum several years ago send me pics of his H. crispa and babies that he said had budded off. The pics of the babies were not very clear and it was hard to see whether or not they might have just been aptasia, but he seemed convinced they they were exactly like the parent. Unfortunately he disappeared before I could ask more questions.

 

[Arati]

here is my theory and yes I have tried pairing sandy/occy with no success once the female was ready to spawn the relationship always fell apart.

I always tried with small juvys when i did it I belive in the hybred pair theory.


Now I belive in the hybred unpaired theory.

here is the scenario as illustrated in the video's above many clownfish migrating around in a field of anemones. Some male/female bonds occur and breeding takes place as usual. these pair are imo exclusively same species. (I also belive the classifications of clowns needs to be reworked, but another post for that).

Some fish begin to mature unpaired and they are males who roam the anemone field. These males will cut in on spawning pairs. maybe only for a second before being driven off. eventually unpaired males become female and choose a mate. The numbers of hybreds are kept low because not a ton of anemone fish share hosts, and the time a fish is a male is short. not to mention the difficulty in cutting in.

I belive it is highly likely that fish of a certain region share recessive genes and it is within any combination of these fish that Theille or even Leuk are created from.

Also I think it is highly likely that Theille are polymnus not occy

this is the fish I belive is responsible for Theille

but we see many kinds of hybreds

 

[Clownfishfan]

@ arati I thought it was Polymnus/sand too originally until putting 2 picture side by side.

IMO leuc could possibly be chrys/nigripes ,chrys/sand,or chrys/periderain ,if you notice in the vid that leuc is a rather light orange while some pics I've seen they have a dull brown(nigripes?)or somewhere between the 2. Maybe that's why they show up more?

Nice nem Marina !

This guy claims he could pair the 2 a get leuc and theillei
If someone could post the pics here or pm me that would be great
http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/f10/le-mystere-a-revele-a-leucokranos-and-a-thiellei-4093/

 

[Clownfishfan]

Double post
Is there any way to tell if a lone skunk is a male/female? I would assume not.

 

[Winwood]

I am pretty sure nigripes is out of the equation due its restricted geographical distribution (primarily the Maldives and Sri Lanka).

 

[Clownfishfan]

You may just be right....

What kind of nem would sand/occy share in the wild?
How hard are hard are haddoni nems to keep(I know they are as easy a bubble tips)? I know gigantica are really hard but wasn't sure about Haddoni. How often do sandys accept bubble tips as hosts?

 

[WDLV]

You may just be right....

What kind of nem would sand/occy share in the wild?
How hard are hard are haddoni nems to keep(I know they are as easy a bubble tips)? I know gigantica are really hard but wasn't sure about Haddoni. How often do sandys accept bubble tips as hosts?

S. mertensii is common to both.

 

[WDLV]

here is my theory and yes I have tried pairing sandy/occy with no success once the female was ready to spawn the relationship always fell apart.
I always tried with small juvys when i did it I belive in the hybred pair theory.

Now I belive in the hybred unpaired theory.
here is the scenario as illustrated in the video's above many clownfish migrating around in a field of anemones. Some male/female bonds occur and breeding takes place as usual. these pair are imo exclusively same species. (I also belive the classifications of clowns needs to be reworked, but another post for that.)
Some fish begin to mature unpaired and they are males who roam the anemone field. These males will cut in on spawning pairs. maybe only for a second before being driven off. eventually unpaired males become female and choose a mate. The numbers of hybreds are kept low because not a ton of anemone fish share hosts, and the time a fish is a male is short. not to mention the difficulty in cutting in.
I belive it is highly likely that fish of a certain region share recessive genes and it is within any combination of these fish that Theille or even Leuk are created from.

I too am a proponent of that theory. In fact, at the moment I'd say it's my prevailing theory, though I wouldn't say it is the only theory to which I'd give creedance.

Also I think it is highly likely that Theille are polymnus not occy this is the fish I belive is responsible for Theille

I considered the possibility more than once that A. polymnus might be a contributor. The second was when I saw the above picture of a Philippine variant. However, looking at A. sandaracinos, A. polymnus and A. thiellei, the questions that come to mind are:
- Where does the orange base color originate?
- Where does the consistant white mark at the caudal peduncle originate?
- Why don't they seem to get any larger than a male sandaracinos? Mine are the largest I've seen to date, though Mike thielle's might be the same size and his female has been in captivity for close to two decades.
- Why is there no common host anemone between the two purposed parent species?

 

[WDLV]

I just don't see it.

 

[WDLV]

 

[Clownfishfan]

Think they would settle for a haddoni or rbta ...

Nice pics! I like the second one!

I found out that the occy is almost 10 years old and has never had an anemone,do you think it will be hard for it to adjust to one?

 

[velvetelvis]

Those are some beautiful fish.

 

[WDLV]

IME thiellei has no problem with BTA. I think if sandaracinos male will go in, the ocellaris will follow. I used to use juvi clarkiis to show other clowns that an anemone was safe.