AC Program

[clp]

No, the 2 osc statements are going to conflict with each other. You could use the timer statement to have the desired result:

OSC 15/345 On/Off Then Mix On
OSC 60/300 On/Off Then FOO Off
OSC 1/004 On/Off Then Top On
If Timer FOO = OFF Then Top OFF

The timer name FOO does need to point to real control address; it is just used as an intermiate variable to hold state.

Curt

 

[alrha]

oooh, great idea, you're good!
i'll have to tie my light fan in with the VHO outlet to free up a space.

 

[kbecker]

Well that is good to know about the max change statments as I was just following how they were used in the manual in my programs.

 

[alrha]

or maybe i an just use a max change to work with the pH spike (easier).

OSC 15/345 On/Off Then Mix On
OSC 60/300 On/Off Then Top Off
If pH > 8.4 Then Top Off
Max Change 005 M Then Top Off

unless there is a way to use max change to let it be ON for a max of 1 min.

 

[alrha]

ok, here is my latest:

LtL = 10 K MH (400W) A01
VHO = 2x60" VHO Actinic (280W) A02
Mlt = 4xMoonlights A03
Fan = 2xFans (sump & canopy) A04
LtC = 10 K MH (400W) A05
Rfg = Refugium/Sump light (96W) A06
Top = Top-off via KalkReactor A07
Mix = Mixing pump for KalkReactor A08
LtR = 10 K MH (400W) A09
LtF = Fans in light fixture A10
Htr = Heater (300W) A11
Alm = Alarm Module A12

If Time > 19:00 Then VHO On
If Time > 22:00 Then LtR On
If TIme > 22:15 Then LtC On
If TIme > 22:30 Then LtL On
If Time > 23:00 Then Rfg Off
If Time > 05:00 Then Rfg On
If Time > 05:30 Then LtR Off
If Time > 05:45 Then LtC Off
If Time > 06:00 Then LtL Off
If Time > 09:00 Then VHO Off
If Timer VHO = On Then LtF On
If Timer VHO = Off Then LtF Off
If Timer VHO = On Then Mlt Off
If Timer VHO = Off Then Mlt On

If Temp < 76.5 Then Htr On
If Temp > 77.0 Then Htr Off
If Temp > 77.5 Then Fan On
If Temp < 77.0 Then Fan Off
If Temp > 81.0 Then LtR Off
Max Change 030 M Then LtR Off
If Temp > 81.5 Then LtC Off
Max Change 030 M Then LtC Off
If Temp > 82.0 Then LtL Off
Max Change 030 M Then LtL Off
If Temp < 65 Then Htr Off
If Timer Htr = On Then LtF Off

OSC 15/345 On/Off Then Mix On
OSC 60/300 On/Off Then Top Off
If pH > 8.4 Then Top Off
Max Change 005 M Then Top Off

If Time > 00:00 Then Alm Off
If Temp > 83 Then Alm On
If Temp < 76 Then Alm On
If pH > 8.5 Then Alm On
If pH < 8.1 Then Alm On
Max Change 015 Then Alm Off

If Feed cycle Then Top Off
If Feed cycle Then Mix Off

 

[alrha]

seems like my osc commands were wrong. even when doing the "TOP OFF" line, i still need to first put how many minutes ON then how many off.

here is the full current code:

If Time > 19:00 Then VHO ON
If Time > 22:00 Then LtR ON
If Time > 22:15 Then LtC ON
If Time > 22:30 Then LtL ON
If Time > 23:00 Then Rfg OFF
If Time > 05:00 Then Rfg ON
If Time > 05:30 Then LtR OFF
If Time > 05:45 Then LtC OFF
If Time > 06:00 Then LtL OFF
If Time > 09:00 Then VHO OFF
If Tmr VHO = ON Then LtF ON
If Tmr VHO = OFF Then LtF OFF
If Tmr VHO = ON Then Mlt OFF
If Tmr VHO = OFF Then Mlt ON

If Temp < 76.0 Then Htr ON
If Temp > 76.5 Then Htr OFF
If Temp > 77.0 Then Fan ON
If Temp < 76.5 Then Fan OFF
If Temp > 81.0 Then LtR OFF
Max Change 030 M Then LtR OFF
If Temp > 81.5 Then LtC OFF
Max Change 030 M Then LtC OFF
If Temp > 82.0 Then LtL OFF
Max Change 030 M Then LtL OFF
If Temp < 65 Then Htr OFF
If Tmr Htr = ON Then LtF OFF

OSC 15/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
OSC 210/60 ON/OFF Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF
Max Change 002 M Then Top OFF

If Time > 00:00 Then Alm OFF
If Temp > 84 Then Alm ON
If Temp < 76 Then Alm ON
If pH > 8.6 Then Alm ON
If pH < 8.1 Then Alm ON
Max Change 015 Then Alm OFF

If Feed cycle Then Top OFF
If Feed cycle Then Mix OFF
If Feed cycle Then Alm OFF
If Feed cycle Then Fan OFF
If Feed cycle Then Rfg ON

 

[alrha]

ok, still having trouble with:
OSC 15/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
OSC 210/60 ON/OFF Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF

seems like once the pH is above 8.6 "Top" shuts off and doesnt come back on (probably waits till the next ON command which will be 210 minutes later). so it ends up adding very little till the localized pH jumps then stays off. I tried to add a command If pH < 8.5 Then Top ON, but then it just turns on and off based on the pH and ignores the OSC command (which means it Tops off even while Mix is on).

It seems i can either control my top-off by OSC (and have it turn on and off after waiting for the reactor to settle, but risk pH spikes) OR i can control it by pH (and set it to be OFF if the reactor (Mix) is on, but cant wait for it to settle).

I wish there would be a way to somehow embed these two commands together so that it can wait for the reactor to settle and then dose based on pH.

 

[johns]

alrha-

I'm just thinking while i write here...i dont know how to write these commands perfectly yet. But could you try something with the "If Timer X On Then..." command instead (eliminate the OSC command for the Top). Maybe it will work better??

Like:
OSC 15/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF
Max Change 060M Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF

Will these work in combination with one another correctly?

 

[alrha]

yes, that is pretty much how i am currently running it.
Just two points:
1) dont forget to add "If pH < 8.5 Then Top ON" or it will never turn on. This probably should also be before "If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF" so that it does not override it - as i believe the program will follow the latest command in the sequence.
2) the max change command might also pose a problem if dosing into the sump as i do. by nature, when the kalkwasser is dosed, the local pH jumps right away, then slowly falls back down as it is mixed in with the tank water. so in my case it turns on for about a minute then shuts and waits for the pH to settle then does it again. with that max change command, it would wait a full hour every time it put in a little kalkwasser.

Perhaps an alternative to this would be to place my pH probe by the drain and the kalkwasser by the return so that it will continue to dose until the drain (or entire system) as an elevated pH level. the downside to this is that it will dose a lot faster and a lot at a time rather than the stop and go (slower) dosing i prefer.

I think for now i will just have it set based on pH and wont have the luxury of waiting for it to settle after being mixed. Maybe if I increase the frequency and decrease the duration of the mixing it may prevent undisolved kalk from reaching the top of the reactor.

If you do have an extra slot available (personally i dont want to waste a slot on this as i use all my slots) you can set up a dummy such as "OSC 60/210 ON/OFF Then Dum On" and then "If Timer Dum = ON then Top OFF"

 

[johns]

Here's how I would do it:

First off, I dose the kalkreactor directly into the overflow box in the tank and not in the sump (dosing a kalk reactor to you sump could sometimes be a problem - if the water level of your reservoir is higher than the level in your sump, you could create a siphon). My pH probe is in the sump in the return area, far enough away that I dont get very fast localized pH spikes. This way, I also give the kalk more time to mix well before going into the tank.

In my case I would run the command like this (I'm not actually doing this yet, but thinking about how I would set it up):

OSC 5/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF
Max Change 030M Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF

I think 5 minutes of mixing in the reactor every 4 hours is good enough in my case. 30 minutes for the kalk to settle is probably good enough too. After this 30 minutes, the reactor is allowed to top off undisturbed (mine tops off according to evaporation via a tunze osmolator - is your setup similar?)

In my case the "If pH > ..." command is not being used to CONTROL the kalk addition (my kalk addition is already being controlled as a slow addition because of the osmolator), but instead it acts as a SAFEGUARD so that in those rare instances when water level drops drastically and I forget to turn the osmolator off, I wont add gallons of kalk at one time.

What I want to find out is this:

Is it really true that you need another command for If pH < 8.5 Then Top ON?? Can anyone confirm this? I was thinking that if the pH ever got above 8.6, the TOP would turn off for the 30 min Max change duration, then turn back on after the 30 minutes is up, because the pH should have dropped by then.

Is it really true it wont ever turn on again? It has to turn on again at some point right? When does it check again?

 

[alrha]

if there is no command to turn it back on, why would it turn on. you must at least have "If Time > 0:00 Then Top ON" or something to tell it to turn on.

i have my top-off pump plugged into a float switch.

what kind of reactor do you have? i have the PM Kalkreactor. and come to think of it, i have never noticed the top of the reactor being cloudy, it usually stays pretty clear as the lower portion is mixed.

 

[johns]

Yes, I think you may be right. I guess I dont see how it would turn on either. So would this work?

If Time > 00:00, then Top ON
OSC 5/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF
Max Change 030M Then Top OFF

I'm only trying to avoid the 'If pH < 8.5 then Top ON' statement because I dont want the reactor turning on and off continuously as controlled by pH. I have too many questions about how it all works with those commands in there. It gets confusing for me. For instance, if the pH drops below 8.5 but the Max Change 30 minutes isnt up yet, will the pH command override the other, turning the reactor on? Or if the pH drops below 8.5 but the reactor has just mixed, is it going to start adding. In my case I always want it to wait 30 minutes, because it means that either the reactor has just mixed or the pH has spiked (not a good thing in my case)

BTW, I have a Reef-tek Nilsen reactor and it ALWAYS gets cloudy up to the top within a few seconds of mixing. However, mine was custom-made and it's a bit shorter than the normal unit so this might be part of the reason why.

 

[clp]

Suppose this is the program:

If pH < 8.5 Then Top ON
OSC 5/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF
Max Change 030M Then Top OFF

The Max Change statement has the highest priority so Top will stay off for 30 minutes even if the pH dropped below 8.5.

Curt

 

[johns]

clp- thanks for the response. is there anything inherently wrong with doing it this way instead, using the time for the initial ON command. there are other reason I didnt want to necessarily control it with the pH commands (I just dont trust using pH quite yet). SO I was wondering what you thought aboput controlling this way:

If Time > 00:00, then Top ON
OSC 5/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF
Max Change 030M Then Top OFF

 

[clp]

It will work, but you don't have the hysterisys from the delta in on/off pH values.

Curt

 

[johns]

It will work, but you don't have the hysterisys from the delta in on/off pH values.

Right. I dont necessarily want to turn it on/off via pH commands. The switch on the osmolator work ok for the normal on/off via evaporation. And if you are trying to keep the sump volume consistent via the auto top-off, there are too many questions regarding the control of kalkwater via pH (ie. how do you best match the fluctuating evaporation rate to keep the sump volume consistent via contol by pH?).

I just want to be able to turn it OFF after the kalk stirs, and in the case of a too high pH spike as a safeguard. And keep it off for 30 minutes or so after either event.

 

[alrha]

johns, the other advantgae of using the pH to turn it on (as Curt suggests) rather than the time is that if your pH is in the 8.55 range, do you want to add kalk? controlling it by pH would give you a little more buffer (pun intended) from reaching your maximum desired level.

 

[johns]

alrha-

I agree with you that there is some benefit to controling kalk vs. pH, namely stable pH. The problem in my situation is in matching the evaporation rate. What happens if I am not around for a long period of time and pH is not matching evaporation evenly - I could run the risk of running the sump dry if I happen to be running at higher than normal pH. Or even overflowing the sump if I'm running at very low pH (I do have a backup float switch, but you get the idea)

I perfer to simply control the kalk via evaporation. pH seems stable enough this way. I only want to avoid dumping a bunch of kalk in by mistake or while it is mixing. Those are generally the only times I get huge spikes and then major fluctuations for a few days. If I can avoid that, I'm pretty confident my pH will remain reasonably stable and I'll be keeping the sump volume consistent at the same time (which will help aid in stability as well, I might add)

 

[alrha]

your sump will only run dry if your pH is running higher than 8.6 for the entire time it would take for it to all evaporate out (2 weeks?). in all that time you would notice the level droping and be able to add fresh water if needed.
and regarding an overflow, that is what the float switch is for. if the level is at the high water mark, the float switch will cut the power and keep you from adding any more.

 

[johns]

alrha- I cant really argue with you because I pretty much agree with everything you are saying.

I am just more comfortable with consistent water volumes. With that, I am relatively confident I will achieve stable pH, salinity, Ca, etc, etc as well as piece of mind.

But this is really your thread anyway. Hope I didnt hi-jack it from you. But I was still hoping I would hear a final word from clp on the final question I had written meant for him above:

clp- thanks for the response. is there anything inherently wrong with doing it this way instead, using the time for the initial ON command. there are other reason I didnt want to necessarily control it with the pH commands (I just dont trust using pH quite yet). SO I was wondering what you thought aboput controlling this way:

If Time > 00:00, then Top ON
OSC 5/255 ON/OFF Then Mix ON
If Timer Mix = On, Then Top OFF
If pH > 8.6 Then Top OFF
Max Change 030M Then Top OFF