Achilles Tang Primer

[Tracey2]

Ironwill, I actually have this med in my med cabinet. I used it when I first bought it and didn't like it for some reason, I just cant remember why, maybe amonia. If it kills beneficial bacteria I don't know how I would handle amonia in a tank my size?

 

[zukharla]

Curious how much Achillies Tangs are in USA/Canada? Over here in Australia, they are $700. I dont know if this is the norm or if they are just really hard to get here. Absolutely adore the fish but that's way too much for me to want to spend on something so touchy.

 

[Mike de Leon]

thanks Sanchoy, I might just do that, I have a qt set up but it has its own issues right now and has copper and prazi in it. I have read those stories too but have also read too many times where people move them to qt just to watch them die, I just don't know which is worse so thought I would start doing as much as I can with the dT. He looks better again this afternoon and is out eating nori and roger food, but again probably just the cycle of ich. I really don't know how I would catch him in my tank, I can't even reach to the back.

I would not touch that fish now if I were you. Turn the lights off and keep the water in pristine condition. Keep the temp up as well to speed the cycle of the ich. Keep feeding him and add selcon and garlic extreme to nori. Do not stress him out....

 

[geaux xman]

Curious how much Achillies Tangs are in USA/Canada? Over here in Australia, they are $700. I dont know if this is the norm or if they are just really hard to get here. Absolutely adore the fish but that's way too much for me to want to spend on something so touchy.

they typically go for $200-250 USD for small-med.

 

[ironwill723]

Ironwill, I actually have this med in my med cabinet. I used it when I first bought it and didn't like it for some reason, I just cant remember why, maybe amonia. If it kills beneficial bacteria I don't know how I would handle amonia in a tank my size?

Your biological filter should be fine and able to endure the medication period if you do not over medicate the system. Yes, you do need to monitor your ammonia levels with Crypto-Pro and be ready to do a water change if necessary. If your worried about ammonia get ammonia warning badges and make up some fresh saltwater beforehand just in case the levels begin to rise and you need to do a water change. All of this is still a better option than catching the fish and treating with copper or hypo in my opinion due to the specific fish you are treating. I personally would not treat this particular fish with copper or hypo. If you have the option to treat with Crypto I would. My second option would be to leave the fish be and keep the water conditions pristine.

Also, if you do decide to use Crypto-Pro be sure to keep the lights off or on a low setting as strong lights degrade the effectiveness of the medication.

 

[ryanrid]

Curious how much Achillies Tangs are in USA/Canada? Over here in Australia, they are $700. I dont know if this is the norm or if they are just really hard to get here. Absolutely adore the fish but that's way too much for me to want to spend on something so touchy.

i got mine for $400 she is small approx 6cm, usually in Sydney they are $500-$600. After 3 weeks in QT is doing well just want her to feed more aggresivley on frozen before adding to the DT.

 

[zukharla]

i got mine for $400 she is small approx 6cm, usually in Sydney they are $500-$600. After 3 weeks in QT is doing well just want her to feed more aggresivley on frozen before adding to the DT.

I'm in Brisbane. Only seen 3 for sale and all were around the $700 mark here. The one that the LFS has atm has been there for a couple of months so obviously doing fine but I got scolded for the $200 Angel purchase. Think I'd be pushing my luck with a $700 Tang :uzi:

 

[sanchoy]

You have probably read this, but if you have not here it is:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1986013

Just to reiterate from that thread, feeding your tang with high nutritious foods will not rid your problems with ick. The proper way is quarantine treatment and leave your tank fallow for an extended period of time without a host fish to feed the ick parasite.

With this sensitive specie of tangs (achilles), once ick gets hold of it, the situation will likely dim more. The horror stories where people say that they should have left their achilles tangs in the display despite being infected with ick, and when they tried treating the tang it died; those cases were a tad too late where the owners waited too long for the ick to takeover the host. And their last measure was taking out the tang to treat, in which the tang was going to die regardless.

Ick will constantly reappear if you do not treat your tank properly.

 

[ryanrid]

I'm in Brisbane. Only seen 3 for sale and all were around the $700 mark here. The one that the LFS has atm has been there for a couple of months so obviously doing fine but I got scolded for the $200 Angel purchase. Think I'd be pushing my luck with a $700 Tang :uzi:

call darren from reef secrets in the goldie may save you some $, they should also be getting cheaper with the exchange rate. should is the key word.

 

[Tracey2]

Sanchoy, do you have an ich free tank? I ask because I have tried twice to remove fish for 8 weeks treating with hypo and copper and leaving the tank fallow of 8 weeks and the ich returns. It has always made sense to me that its just a parasite that we should be able to eradicate but I certainly haven't been successful. I think you would have to leave the tank fallow for over 8weeks and quarantine all fish and coral for that period too? Thanks for your help.

My achillies is out eating today looking better, I have now done 3-50g water changes and salinity is at 1.019. I have not ruled out pulling him if I can or removing my rock and dropping the salinity in the display to 1.009. All advice is appreciated.

 

[Mike de Leon]

Sanchoy, do you have an ich free tank? I ask because I have tried twice to remove fish for 8 weeks treating with hypo and copper and leaving the tank fallow of 8 weeks and the ich returns. It has always made sense to me that its just a parasite that we should be able to eradicate but I certainly haven't been successful. I think you would have to leave the tank fallow for over 8weeks and quarantine all fish and coral for that period too? Thanks for your help.

My achillies is out eating today looking better, I have now done 3-50g water changes and salinity is at 1.019. I have not ruled out pulling him if I can or removing my rock and dropping the salinity in the display to 1.009. All advice is appreciated.

I have also tried ridding ich from several displays I had in the past with no success keeping tanks fallow for 13 weeks! I also did full quarantine in a 90 gallon tank and lost 2 Achilles tangs. The only way one can get rid of the ich from a tank is by starting with dry rocks and sticking every new addition in qt with either copper or cupramine. I dont even believe in hypo. Tried that too and lost a really nice PBT. The swim bladder gets affected big time.

My Achilles grew to 7 inches in my tank before I had to get rid of it due to his size. He had at least two bouts of very bad ich that he recovered from.
One cause was reaquascaping the tank that really stressed him out.

Mine is only from experience and has no scientific backbone to support.

 

[Recty]

From what I recall, in a laboratory environment fish with ich were placed in aquariums and allowed to live for a couple weeks. Those fish were then removed and water samples from the tanks were examined weekly under a microscope... the last traces of ich were discovered in a tank 13 weeks after the tank was fallow. Now, most of the tank were ich free within 2 months, but a couple stubborn tanks kept it for another 5 weeks longer...

I've searched around the web and cant find that again, but I specifically remember reading a paper on this within the last 3 years.

In my mind, if you're really going to eradicate ich by the fallow method in your main tank, you need to do it for 3 months. I'd also treat your fish immediately in the QT tank so that you can watch them over the course of the three months and see if they redevelop ich again or if you've truly wiped it all out.

 

[zukharla]

call darren from reef secrets in the goldie may save you some $, they should also be getting cheaper with the exchange rate. should is the key word.

Not really prepared to risk 'wasting' the money if it is too sensitive. I'll just admire the ones on this forum

 

[Tracey2]

Update on my achillies, he is acting normal, not swimming in front of the powerhead anymore, he is eating well, nori and I found another brand of frozen plankton and his favourite flake, everything soaked in garlic and selcon. He still has ich on him and sometimes when he is signalling the cleaner wrasse (when he is white/grey, it looks like he has black spots (maybe black ich) other times he looks like he has velvet but I'm sure that can't be or he would be dead by now. I really would like to get my lights on again. My QT is still ready and waiting if he were to look any worse.

UV is running and I have slowed but am doing a 50g wc/week. Knock on wood, he looks like he will beat this but I really wish I could rid my tank of ich altogether but I don't want to medicate this tank and I have already tried the fallow thing twice also I don't want to move my achillies, I guess my only other option is trying a diatom filter or hypo in the DT. All suggestions are appreciated and if anyone has a diatom filter they want to sell, please pm.

 

[Mike de Leon]

Update on my achillies, he is acting normal, not swimming in front of the powerhead anymore, he is eating well, nori and I found another brand of frozen plankton and his favourite flake, everything soaked in garlic and selcon. He still has ich on him and sometimes when he is signalling the cleaner wrasse (when he is white/grey, it looks like he has black spots (maybe black ich) other times he looks like he has velvet but I'm sure that can't be or he would be dead by now. I really would like to get my lights on again. My QT is still ready and waiting if he were to look any worse.

UV is running and I have slowed but am doing a 50g wc/week. Knock on wood, he looks like he will beat this but I really wish I could rid my tank of ich altogether but I don't want to medicate this tank and I have already tried the fallow thing twice also I don't want to move my achillies, I guess my only other option is trying a diatom filter or hypo in the DT. All suggestions are appreciated and if anyone has a diatom filter they want to sell, please pm.

Any pics? Looks like you're gonna beat this one. Turn the lights on for shorter periods...

 

[ironwill723]

Tracey-
Ozone might be easier for you to run through your skimmer, less maintenance than a diatom filter. BRS sells the ozotech model which is perfect for hobbyist size tanks. If you go the diatom filter route, Vortex is the gold standard for those filters and you can get diatom powder from HomeDepot for super cheap. I ordered my XL diatom filter for a decent price from Big Al's using a coupon code as well. Anything else I can do to help let me know, sounds like the achilles is doing better, good job, it is a super tough fish to keep.

 

[Tracey2]

Thanks Mike de Leon, do you know if light has an effect on the cycle or breeding of ich or if the lights out is just to reduce stress to fish? I posted a lousy pic earlier in this thread but will try to get another tomorrow when I turn the lights on for a bit.

Thanks Ironwill, I thought the diatom filter would actually filter out ich but does ozone effect the cycle of ich in any way or just keep the water super clean?

 

[ironwill723]

Ozone works by disinfecting (killing the ich parasite)the tank water that passes through the skimmer body. Similar to UV it can only kill the ich that passes through the skimmer, but it does also improve overall water conditions/clarity, while also raising ORP levels which is good for the fish and corals. Almost all wholesalers, public zoos, and better LFS are utilizing some form of ozone and/or UV sterilization. Diatom filters filter out the ich parasite because the ich can not pass through the diatomous earth that coats the filter bag in the filter. Either method you are basically trying to reduce the amount of ich parasites in your system through dilution of the parasite. The diatom filter is more maintanence because the bag gets dirty quickly but I have had great results with it because you can actually lightly vacuum your sand bed and really reduce your ich population this way.

 

[Tracey2]

Thanks Ironwill, I want them both now, ha. Sounds like the diatom filter would be more effective considering I am already running uv but would be more work, I'll have to give this some thought.

You did remind me to say, in doing my water changes I have been vacuuming the sand bed and taking a powerhead to the rock to keep ich suspended in the water, hopefully thats helping.

 

[ironwill723]

Thanks Ironwill, I want them both now, ha. Sounds like the diatom filter would be more effective considering I am already running uv but would be more work, I'll have to give this some thought.

You did remind me to say, in doing my water changes I have been vacuuming the sand bed and taking a powerhead to the rock to keep ich suspended in the water, hopefully thats helping.

Ahhh...keep doing that then with the vacuuming. Anthony Calfo once told me at a reef club meeting that he basically had eliminated ich in one of his tanks by vacuuming the sand for 8 days straight. Never tried it for that many days but it does work in my experience for reducing the numbers of ich regardless.