Achilles Tang Primer

Also, with ich--especially if you have a UV--they settle on the substrate after they drop off to breed (hence, the common cycle of better one day then bad again, etc), so if you can get some flow moving over the bottom (obviously, in a very lateral way and not pointing down at it, which would just stir it up), then it will keep the parasites in the water column where they are more likely to be exposed to the UV.

A good soak regimen is extremely helpful too. I use hikari freeze-dried spirulina brine (very healthy just by itself), which acts like a sponge and actually absorbs what you soak it in. For me, I use BWA Garlic Power (which also has Vit C in it), BWA Vitamarin M (has a whole bunch of vits, including B's, zinc and C), and BWA Amin Omega (has amino acids, and omega 3 & 6 [HUFA's]). Tips: be careful not to crumble the brine, as it is very fragile in its freeze dried state. This way, after it absorbs the soak stuff, it retains its natural state and when you feed it (I just use the tip of a fork and lower it in front of a K4, which immediately disburses it throughout the tank).

You can do the same thing with pellets and seaweed, but you'll need to combine your soak ingredients first, then apply to seaweed, spread then let dry / make a small puddle on plate and roll pellets over until absorbed and then roll to dry part of plate to dry. These are also really effective because the nutrient don't rinse off when you put the food in the water. With freeze-dried / soak method, some of the surface soak will rinse but the absorbed won't.

This is an extremely effective method of getting very high nutrient content to the fish in a single feeding. Just like people, when you're sick, nutrition is a big part of recovery or even fighting off a bug before it knocks you down. I've found fish, especially tangs, to respond in very much the same manner. For what it's worth, in 10 years, I've never lost a tang to ich using this philosophy.
 
32flavors - thanks for your help, however the fish died a while ago. My water is perfect as I have such a small bio load on the tank. Just a ray.

The ray is constantly moving the sand to a point that the sand looks like it was put in the yesterday - so clean! However, I am certain the they can not move every section of sand.

I have given up the idea of getting an achilles tang for now. Unless I can find one form an established tank, I will stay away from them for now.

Vince


I am
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15072433#post15072433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefslugs
Hey, I'd like to see more pictures.

+1 ! Never too many pics of Achilles Tangs!

Vamero--sorry for your loss.... was responding to Hawkey's post just before mine. ;)
 
i'm still struggling with ich, my whole tank now has it and the achilles has it bad. Tonight he seems to be off the Nori but has been eating brine soaked in BW garlic and Vit C.

I'll keep the feeding regime going but I'm concerned I'm going to loose the whole stock.

SHould i consider catching all the fish and treat them together in a large tank. Or should I leave then to ride it through. Had ich for 3-4 weeks now. The poor achilles looks like he's covered in snow.

I really want to make sure i do everything possible.

Any help guys?
 
Hi Hawkey, I had the same problem last month. The ick in my tank kept getting worse and worse. I removed all of my fish and treated with cuppamine in a QT. However, my achilles died soon after putting him in the QT. They do not do well in the QT, so be prepared.

I felt like I had no other choice. My fish we getting sick, the achilles seemed to be getting worse not better, and I felt that I would rather not lose my entire tank.

I had two Aqua UV's running 24/7 also. One was 57 watt the other was a 40 watt. I also did the feeding garlic thing. Nothing worked for me. My achilles was covered and had in under his skin too!

I am not in any way an expert on these fish or any fish! This is just my personal experience.

Vince
 
hawkey--sorry to hear your news. on treating all of them, yes, if you can. a high quality hosp tank is easy to set up with powerheads (for the tangs) and live rock/base rock. people hesitate to put rock in a qt tank for a few reasons: that it absorb copper and affect concentration levels, which is true but easily handled with a high quality copper test; that the rock will never fully develop because of the copper, which is true but it's not in there to develop but to provide sanctuary and habitat for the fish; that it's expensive, which buying rock can be but rarely is more than restocking all of your fish--and is a onetime purchase, as even if you break the tank down in times of good health, you still have it on hand.

I had a similar situation 2 years ago. Against my better judgement, I brought home too many new fish at once--among them a Golden Angel and a pair of Maldives Clowns (the LFS either was tired of fielding the "sorry, already sold" inquiries or didn't like the pressure of maintaining such sensitive species. Either way, I brought them home along with some others--and the stress threw the whole tank into a tailspin. I fought it for weeks with nutrition and reduced lighting periods--corals sig lightened. I didn't have a UV at the time or the current my system has now, but everyone became so infected, I caved and set-up a qt. I lost several of the fish--ironically no tangs and just as ironically, the Mal Clowns were the last of those that died to go. BUT, I was able to save several.

Treating reef tanks recommends a fallow period of at least 6 weeks. To be safe, I let mine go fallow for 3 months. It was extremely stressful, and I didn't was to take any chances that the fallow period was in vain. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, but just to be sure--you remove ALL of the fish but not inverts. Ich and several other parasites can't reproduce off of inverts, so they are all safe, and since their reproduction cycle is totally cut off there is no need to deprive the Ich of light, so your tank can return to its normal lighting regimen.

The other advantages to a qt are that you can raise the temp and therefore accelerate the life-cycle of the parasite without worrying about stressing corals (this can be harder on the fish as the infection will increase before it subsides but it will subside faster); and you can provide a very low light enviro, which will sig reduce stress for a fish under siege.

Basically, you can attack the parasite on every front: chemically (copper); light/phot intensity and period; and thermally (their life-cycle is temp dependent, increasing temp increases the rate of their life-cycle).

Beware re thermal treatment: the higher the temp, the lower the dissolved O2 in the tank, so be sure to use an air pump--unsightly, I know, but it offsets the reduced dissolved O2. Again, I used thermal treatment, ramping up 1 degree per 8 hours until I hit 82 degrees along with an air pump. The powerheads ensure even dispersal of the dissolved O2 and contrary to intuition, the powerheads won't cause bubbles to be every where in the tank.

In my case, I used a second hand tank, a simple hang-on filter, an air pump/fine airstone, a heater, base rock (the tank actually looked like a regular tank with caves and arches, as I used rock typically used by people setting up freshwater cichlids--$1.5 a pound) with a bare bottom. The powerheads provided swimming current and maintained tank uniformity. During the 3 months, for water changes, I turned off the powerheads, and I did basic bare bottom siphoning of detritus.

It was worth it, as although I lost the golden and the mal clowns--most of the fish made it. AND, I haven't had any recurrences since repopulating my tank. I'm not saying you have to go 3 months--I was just really worn out and wanted to be certain the parasite had completely died off. I do recommend an 8 week fallow period which is the high end of the recommended 6-8 week period.

Also, some people advocate starting a qt tank with display water. I do not support that. Your display clearly has parasites in the water column. I believe it is better to simply recreate tank parameters in the new qt tank (matching pH, dkh, Ca, and at least initially--temp). If your display is on target--which I imagine a zeovit tank is--it shouldn't be hard to match param with your salt, which you'd have to mix up either way.

Good luck--and keep up with the nutrition. If it's this bad with it, imagine how bad it would be without it, and it will still help the animals. Achilles tangs aren't easy, but it sounds like you've got a strong specimen, you need only to get him through this highly-stressful period of acclimation to captive living.

Very important--where ever an achilles is, it needs STRONG current. MJ 1200's are ideal for creating a strong swimming channel, especially in a smaller space.

Best of luck!
 
this thread is very valuable, today was was at a fellow reefers place and really liked the achilles tang but after reading this I am discouraged . May be when I have a bigger setup at that time it would be more appropriate to have one
 
Same thing happened to me. I have a bigger setup and was determined to get an achilles until I read this thread. However, I went into an LFS yesterday and they had 2-nice fat ones and now I want one again... Very tough decision. I would like to hear back from Hawkey and Tc269 to see if theirs are still alive.
 
mine is doing great in my 90 gl tank!! still alive, no ich but mine never got ick even when it was shipped. Eats like a champ mysis, brine, and loves the red algea with garlic added. Some things that I think helped him stay health.

1. lots of flow in my tank! 2 koralia #4 and 2 koralia #3
2. Big skimmer (guess these guys like higher oxygen levels
3. I have my rock in the middle of my tank so plenty of swimming room front of tank and the back.

Any more questions dont be afraid to shoot me a PM good luck Ryshark
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15195017#post15195017 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tc269
mine is doing great... but mine never got ick even when it was shipped.

Who did you buy yours from?
 
excellent! I've been wondering what the actual quality of LA DD fish were. It's nice to hear this about one as fragile as an Achilles. And, better to pay hefty once, than a little less 2 or 3 times, possibly plus replacing other fish taken down. I really like what I've read about DD's quarantine and acclimation facility and procedures. Thanks.
 
hi there guys,.

Sad news I lost my Achilles the day after my last post 3weeks ago. Following day i lost my powder blue. On that day I setup a quarantine tank which ended up being a nightmare as I had to try and catch all the fish! ended up taking everything out to catch them!

So QT was setup, then I lost yellow tang and then both clowns. Then peacock wrasse and algae blenny

So i now have 1 lipstick, 1 yellow tang, 1 purple tang, 2 sargassam triggers, 1 algae blenny and 1 peacock wrasse.

Treated QT tank for 10days and white is now gone, remaining yellow looks a bit skinny and one sargassam look a little marked up on one side. So am feeding pellet, flake and frozen to try and build them up.

It will be 3 weeks this sunday since fish came out of tank. How long should I leave them out of tank for?

I@d really love another Achilles, but just not sure I could go through this all again. If there was a way to ensure i didn't get white spot again I'd buy one, but not sure I'm will to take the risk yet.

Cheers
Paul
 
First, I am SO SORRY to hear about your losses. Sounds a lot like whay I went through 2 summers ago. The good news is now you have an est qt.

As Tc269 posted, he got his from LA DD, making yet another buyer of Achilles from there to report the fish arriving healthy and staying healthy, and his is in a 90, I think. My point being that every Achilles buyer I have heard of from there got healthy specimens. Nothings absolute, but I told my LFS not to worry about getting me one because when I'm ready I/m just going to get it from there. They have amazing qt and captivity acclimation procedures and they don't sell fish until they are healthy, and swimming and eating normally. You have to wait a while, but if you aren't already, I would subscribe to the Diver's Den daily update--which is different from regular LA in-stock notification. Plus with DD, you get to see an actual pic of the exact fish that you are buying.

Also, a powder blue and an achilles would typically stress each other, especially if one was established. If possible, I would try getting them at the same time.

You've come this far, with your display being fallow. I would go ahead and wait at least another week. 4 weeks is the minimum "cure" period, 6 weeks is strongly recommended. As I said before, I went even longer than that--but was totally worth it. restocked into a problem free tank.

Also, since I last posted, there is another highly recommended option for Achilles.... Cleaner Wrasses and Gobies. The Hawiian Cleaner Wrasses are NOT recommended as they rarely take frozen foods as supplementary nutrition, but the Blue-lined Cleaner Wrasse and Cleaner Gobies are considered hearty recommendations. I've seen numerous photos both in the wild and in tanks of these wrasses and gobies (well, in the wild, mostly wrasses) cleaning them. I will be purchasing some at the same time. If your interested, I have a link to a great site of a guy who accidently discovered a now full-proof method of getting the wrasses to eat in cap. He's had several of them over a period of something like 10 years, and has only lost one, but I think he said it was pretty weak looking when he got it. This is, after all, how Achilles combat parasites in the wild. Food for thought.....

Bottom line, if you really want one, you're one of the people who should have one. A 350 g zeovit is an excellent holding environment. You just hit a really bad patch of luck.

You might try posting a thread, asking Achilles owners where they got theirs, what condition it was in, if qt'd and its survival. I've been meaning to post such a thread, but I'm not ready for an Achilles with a 75 anyway....

Good luck Paul!
 
Thanks Cheree, I think if I got another Achilles it would def be quarantined before I put him in for a long time
I'll keep current stock in quarantine for another 3weeks to make it 6. In the mine
Time I'm keeping my eye's peeled for some fish to replace the lost ones.

Last time I put all tangs in together so powder blue didn't bother Achilles, although both
These guys got the white spot the worst!

Am now trying to feed up fish in quarantine vat. Got small Kz skimmer running and some rock
Where the triggers hide. Plus chiller and strong pump moving water around.
My only concern is feeding them well in qrt and then water quality becoming poor, but hopefully
Skimmer seems to be pulling lots of crap out.

I was going to put my old zeolites in there for added bacteria, but am nervous I could
Add white spot back into the qrt tank via the stones.

Paul.
 
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