Addiction wins, 450 gallon system begins

[Hop]

Dudester: Thanks bud... And I was kidding about being easy! I knew it was going to be a big chunk of work. In fact, despite a few friends helping to move the tank in, a plumber friend and my wife helping here and there, I have done everything myself. I enjoy doing it and have learned a ton along the way thus far

I hear you about melev. He and weatherson have certainly caused my wallet to become very flat. I wonder how many husbands and wives have argued, seperated or filed legal documents based on thier motivating threads:eek2: JJ

And I'll keep the pics coming as I have time. I was going to get some up tonight, but I decided that it was a really good time to get into the crawl space and get the supports under the tank started. I got the framework done and two of the four supports under there. I also marked my plumbing routes and got a head start on tomorrows projects. Who know, if things go smooth, I may be testing the overflow by lunch:rollface:

Thanks again to everyone!

 

[Hop]

Whew... Been working on this thing since 8:00 this moring. Got the plumbing into the wetroom done and am filling the tank as I type. I'll try to get some pictures loaded up here after dinner and the real testing! Man this is taking forever to fill with tap water, I think it's going to take two weeks to fill with RODI

 

[jnarowe]

Those initial fills take forever. I know when I do my first RO/DI fill, it will take at least 10 days. But there's always something to do while you wait right?

My wife told me today that I need to put in colorful fish if I want her to look at the tank. I mean really! I don't care if she looks at it.--J

 

[Hop]

Those initial fills take forever. I know when I do my first RO/DI fill, it will take at least 10 days. But there's always something to do while you wait right?

My wife told me today that I need to put in colorful fish if I want her to look at the tank. I mean really! I don't care if she looks at it.--J

Yeah... Even when the RODI is filling I have to plumb in the top off and build the lightrack. I had to order the aluminum pieces and they should be in Thursday or friday.

A colorful fish??? It's a reef tank.. There's going to be a bit of color regardless what you fill it with...LOL. Just wait your goign to start coming home and finding her all snuggled in on the couch, watching the tank and reading a book in no time

 

[jnarowe]

couch...hmmm...I guess I better get one of those. LOL--I already told her that once the tank is running I will remodel the rest of the downstairs. I had originally planned a large flat screen where the tank is going. Screw it...We have enough TV's anyway. I'll build in bench seating, heated flooring, a couple of high-back recliners, and lazer tag collars for the fish.--J

 

[Hop]

Well the OM is working perfect, by I'm having problems with my overflow and drain. No matter what I do, I keep getting a toilet type flush every few minutes and then it stops draining and it starts to overflow.... I've got some serious homework to do tonight

 

[kimoyo]

No matter what I do, I keep getting a toilet type flush every few minutes and then it stops draining and it starts to overflow.... I've got some serious homework to do tonight

Sounds like you don't have enough air going into your durso (you have a durso?). This depends on the flow of water in your drain vs the drain pipe size, and the amount of air needed to take up the leftover space. So if you only have water going thru your pipe it will siphon (like whats happening to you) and drain too fast for your pump (which is always better than your pump going faster than your drain ).

If you have a larger pipe you will need a larger amount of water going thru (flow) it for a certain amount of air, space not taken up by water has to be taken up by air. If you have a smaller pipe you have a smaller amount of water for the same amount of air.

So all you need to do is let more air in your durso (open the valve bigger or get a bigger valve).

 

[jnarowe]

Wow! That sounds tough. Let us know what is wrong and how you solve it.--J

 

[melev]

Man this is taking forever to fill with tap water, I think it's going to take two weeks to fill with RODI

Sounds like you could have started collecting RO water in the tank before you started the plumbing.

If the water is colder the 76F going into the unit, it slows production. Also, older filters will slow down things. Have you ever read this: [rodifaq]

 

[Hop]

Sounds like you could have started collecting RO water in the tank before you started the plumbing.

If the water is colder the 76F going into the unit, it slows production. Also, older filters will slow down things. Have you ever read this: <a href="http://reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=2">RO/DI FAQ</a>

One of the first things I read... Spent several days on your site! I'm actually a little ahead of schedule and not really in as big of a hurry as I sound Yeah right.

Ok, I got the toilet flushing to stop by adding a second adjustment valve and hole on the durso, but the water is still too high and it seems like I'm only getting half as much flow as I should be getting... Grrrr. But closer.

 

[Broodingwolf]

" I was actually suposed to finish the rest of the woodwork before I started the tank...Ooops."

hmmm someone not finishing the woodworking before the tank? HMmmmmmmm why does this sound so familiar <eyes Melev> hmmmmmm

Awesome start, thanks for taking the time to document all your choices -- its a great learning experience for everyone who reads your thread! I've seen your freshwater setup before, and I am very excited to see your tank up and running!

I started out in planted tanks, and now I have one of each (a very neglected and not aquascaped at all fresh tank, but I love it and my fish spawn in there all the time, so I'm happy even if its not gorgeous like yours!) I have to say, I couldn't stand not having one of each, there's nothing to rival the endless fascinating hours I can spend staring at the reef tank, but man there's an equally strong pull of an afternoon chilling on my bed, watching my peacefull box o'green and the little fishies flitting between the plants. Very relaxing and zen I think. And that's for an ugly overgrown algae ridden tank like mine, I can't imagine how nice it would be to have gorgeous planted tanks like yours!

Well enough rambling, I wish you the best with your reef tank and will be watching this thread for sure!

 

[kimoyo]

The flow of the overflow will be approximately 1600 gph, but is capable for nearly 2000 gph.

I have a 1" drain that is rated for 600GPH but can do 800GPH easy. Size one 1.5" has more area than two 1" drains you should be able to do 1600gph with one 1.5" drain very very easy. Since you have two 1.5" drains you should be able to do at least 3200GPH.

Ok, I got the toilet flushing to stop by adding a second adjustment valve and hole on the durso, but the water is still too high and it seems like I'm only getting half as much flow as I should be getting... Grrrr. But closer.

It would be good for you to show a picture of your drain plumbing so we can make sure you don't have any backpressure going into the sump or other problems.

But assuming your other plumbing is correct, you now have to close your air valves so you get less air in and more water, you have to balance it. The closer you get your flow to 3200gph the less air you will need in your drain pipe.

You can also get needle valves which give you more precise air flow control. I'm about to do an update about this in my thread Photo journal of my MCA 120 if you want to see a needle valve.

Paul

 

[melev]

Hop, that link I gave you was the FAQ page TeamRC worked on about two years ago, and it is linked to a spot here on RC, not my site. So if you didn't click on it before, you might read it as you have time.

 

[Hop]

I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow, I'm beat right now, 15 hours on this thing. I'm sure I have a bit of back pressure due to the fact that after the pipes run in the crawl space, they have to go back up about three feet and into the sump. I did vent the return at the highest point and when things are dialed in the return into the sump is above the waterline. Right now I've only got the one durso piped in, I was only going for about 1200-1600 and was going to use the second as a backup drain.

I've had everything balanced when I shut it down and it was pretty quiet. The only noise is coming from the durso and it's not too bad. The thing that concerns me is that the durso is maxed at maybe 800 gph. The water level is right near the top of the outside of the pipe. Regardles how much air I put to it, aside from closing all the air off, which obviosly starts the syphon and starts the flushing again.

I'm goign to go drink some coffee, take a shower and ponder for a bit.

 

[Airman]

Hop,

I'm a little confuse about your draining problem. I always thought overflows were painless and simple. But it is nice to hear about having water in the tank. Myself and others who are following this thread wants to see everything working. I think I get more excited about the water flow than the tank. Do you have any vibrations in the wet room? Perhaps someday the Lord will bless me with a monster tank.

 

[kimoyo]

Okay, that explains it. It won't matter how much you vary the valve unless you siphon it (which is possible since you have a second drain, check out this thread). I'm surprised your not getting air burps from the air being forced back up the drain pipe. Because your taking the water down, back up and down again you forcing the water to gather somewhere in the pipe until it has enough volume to push over the hump to clear itself. This is happening very quickly but your not going to get the flow rates I was talking about before. You could not plumb it thru the crawl space so you are taking the water only down to the sump, use the second drain as a drain, or use Herbie's SOS.

 

[Hop]

Airman: Thanks! I don't think this drain issue is going to hold anything up too long. I've got a couple ideas I'm goign to try first thing tomorrow.

And there are no vibrations that I've noticed anywhere. Infact the loudest piece of equipment is the Gen X pump. The Dart under the tank is almost silent. Once the cabinetry is done I bet you won't be able to hear it at all. I was going to run some spa-flex, but I would have had to order it. So I hard-plumbed everything and it seems to be doing pretty well.

kimoyo: Thanks again for your help! I may give that a whirl. I've got a couple additional ideas I'm going to throw at it in the morning. I really think that I'm right about where I need to be, I just think that the valve I have is horrible. I played with it and it seems to be either on or off, ne real adjustment. I guess I'll have to spend more than $0.49 for quality:lol: Like you said, I should be getting more bubbles back, but really I only get a few every four to six minutes. But if my ideas fail I'll definately look into Herbies!

melev: Sorry I almost missed your post... I guess I was having a case of the one-track mind when you posted that. I'll make sure I read it here tonight on in the AM. Thanks again!

 

[Hop]

Oh and here are some not so great pics of the OM test last week. The pics I took tonight look like a tank with water in it You can't see the OM working because I had zero micro buble issues!!!! But we'll see what happens when the salts running free and the skimmers a-skimmin

 

[Hop]

Studid Idea=success

Studid Idea=success

How I thought of this I don't know, nor why. But while getting ready for bed last night I had a bit of a vision that gave way to a little experiment today since I had a TON of extra supplies and well....It worked

First thing I did was built an exact duplicate Durso. Sorry about Durso #1 and it's dreadlock appearence, but that was from playing last night. I still need to replace the cap or build another one as I only need one hole now.

Then I T-d the 1 1/2" drain lines into a single 2" drain... I had a ton of 2" sitting around.

I then ran the 2" all the way to the wetroom and plugged it in. In the back of this pic you can see the 1 1/2" vent at the highest point of the drains return line. it goes about 6" from the ceiling making it 1' taller than the tank in the house.

And into the sump with no issues.

Why this is working, I don't know. The flushing is gone and now I can control the air/water mixture by adjusting a single valve. It's pretty quier considering. This is a huge load off my mind as I was able to crank the flow up to I would say 1200-1400 gph and still have room to spare!!!

So I guess I'm going to clean the garage and get ready for some painting today and tomorrow

Authors cautionary note: Please don't follow the authors poor electrical demonstration with wires hanging over water, wrapped around valve etc. The autor is an idiot and realized in looking at his pictures he needs to do some more cleaning before testing:lol:

 

[jnarowe]

yeah, nice wiring! I don't think you should be building yachts!

Anyway, that vent scares the crap out of me. On my system I am planning 3-2" returns, 1 to the skimmer and 2 to the sump, no vents. But I am also not going down and coming back up either. Just straight down to near floor level.

Is a foot really enough? Maybe you could build a catch around it like for a skimmer with a line going into the sump?--J