AEFW: In-Tank Whoopin

[jda]

Here is what I did to kill the AEFW in my tank. Do whatever you want with this - take it, leave it or whatever. I am not a trained scientist. This is the best that I can do in my basement and office, but please feel free to take some experiments to the next level.

Please read through the log for more details, but here is the summary:
Used the same stuff that is in Flatworm Exit* - Levamisole Hydrochloride in the form of Prohibit. You can easily search for safeness of Flatworm Exit here or on the web. The time period for the treatment needed to be extended - my hypothesis is that AEFW are capable of "sliming up" and waiting out a short treatment and that longer exposure and more flow (to remove the slime) will kill them. When they get stressed, the get circular, stop moving and develop slime.

You can buy Prohibit on eBay for pretty cheap and they ship worldwide. It is a livestock de-wormer.

Everything in my test tank is as-alive as it was before except for the AEFW, bristle worms and probably some other micro worms.

Here is my only WARNING: if you are currently feeding an active bacterial bed and then plan on starting to kill things at the same time that you are turning off their export mechanism, then you are asking for trouble. Stop dosing your vodka, biopellets, etc. while you are doing anything like this. 30 days might be a good start to get the bacterial bed gone - if somebody would like to start and link a tread on this, then please do so. Some of the issues on past threads with flatworm (AEFW and generic Red Planaria) can likely be attributed to likely oxygen starvation from this very phenomenon. Here is the scientific formula:
UnmeasuredIncreaseDeath=UnmeasuredFuel
UnmeasuredFuel+ActiveAggressiveBacterialBed-ExportMechanism = Disaster

Log:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1VKY6gWZWmjZG1FYzhrOHQ5cE0/edit?usp=sharing

Freshly caught AEFW a few minutes after I treated the tank - elongated and moving around:


Hunkering down after a few hours - starting to slime:


Starting to die - supposing?:


Stages of Death - white is dead:


Same three, just more dead:


*source for Flatworm Exit contents:
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924487
from
http://wamas.org/forums/topic/41809-salifert-fwe-flatworm-exit-ingredients/?p=352680

 

[rovster]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Tweaked]

ditto, anyway we can continue the fight on these vile creatures is a huge leap forward.

 

[Piper27]

I think if I am not mistaken there was a large thread where people tried this stuff as in tank treatments. I think a lot of people were having problems with multiple doses and the tank not doing well afterwards. Also I think they kept coming back. Not sure if I am right, I can't remember the thread to search for it.

 

[ormet]

Thanks for sharing!

 

[jda]

I think if I am not mistaken there was a large thread where people tried this stuff as in tank treatments. I think a lot of people were having problems with multiple doses and the tank not doing well afterwards. Also I think they kept coming back. Not sure if I am right, I can't remember the thread to search for it.

Did you read my log? There is info in there about this. They treated for 4 (or so) hours at a time - not nearly long enough to kill them. It is also a different dose although I cannot 100% certainly know how much is different since I don't have a gram scale. There are also successes on that thread.

 

[Piper27]

I haven't read it yet, I plan to when I get off. Sounds like the thread I mentioned. Yes I saw people did succeed doing it that way too. I am rooting you you or anyone for thst matter to figure out the right dosage and program to rid them with in tank treatments!!! Thanks for documenting it, I will read further tonight.

 

[Av8bluewater]

Good stuff thanks.

 

[glaukos]

Thanks for sharing jda:thumbsup:

 

[Av8bluewater]

Do you have shrimp and crabs? Ant effect?

 

[jda]

Only worms suffered - AEFW, Bristle and some micro worms.

 

[dadummy]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2027706

 

[trueblackpercula]

Outstanding finally a thread on killing aefw in tank treatment. I don't have them but at least I now no what to do and recommend to others.

5 star thread for sure

Michael

 

[dowtish]

Interesting read for sure. Thanks for typing up the notes.

 

[AquamanE]

jda- good job, we thank you for biting the bullet.

I read the log, but with all due respect it can be hard to follow at times.

Summary- you dosed your "potion" with tank off line except flow for 24 hours at a time. then repeated a few times 7-10 days apart? with same thing "potion" tank offline for 24 hours then back on line with charcoal, and protein skimming.

Is this correct?

Thank God, I dont have any at current moment but south florida seems to have a few with it. We are a tight knot community of sharers, so need to be prepared.

 

[Big E]

I'd suggest reading the link dadummy posted, especially the warning on the first page which summarizes the results from using it back then.

Looking over Jda's notes I'm not sure anything was done differently or new.

jda are you aware of that thread? Maybe you can state some differences in your dosing procedure or timing that may be different.

 

[jda]

It is all in there - even comparisons with old studies to get you started. I am not going to give out a formula and timeline - I believe that this is one of the things that lead to some of the issues later on in some of the old threads. I think that it is easier to be successful if you read up and make your own decisions and "earn" the knowledge that you are about to apply. "Take two of these and call me in the morning" is dangerous IMO.

The bottom line is that Levaiasole can kill nearly any worm at nearly any dose if you have enough exposure time. Texas A&M and K-State and some other ag colleges have extensive studies on this stuff to kill livestock worms (and other worms in labs) - basically, the harsher the environment and the longer the exposure time, the better the results. The old reef threads tried to treat more like a red bug treatment which do not have the ability to protect themselves with a slime coat... not long enough.

There are plenty of threads to read about with no-issues months later after using Flatworm Exit for the same timeframe that I did. Those are worth reading IMO.

If you read some of those old threads with "soft eyes," you can start to see patterns of why people had some of the issues that they had. You can also PM the folks that had success and see if they ended up killing the worms - lots did. You need to remove the "noise" from the threads yourself based on your own situation since all of lack enough control to do it for every situation.

FWIW - there are all kinds of threads on the interwebs that say that MBE crashed their tank when treating for red bugs, but these are mostly noise to me as well since I have seen MBE work flawlessly with my own eyes. There are all kinds of results for everything. All that I can tell you is that a month later, there are no AEFW in my experiment tank, all the inhabitants (except for worms) are fine and there were even unhatched eggs found on some of the colonies when I took them out to dip them a month later to check for worms.

 

[Av8bluewater]

CAn you explain a bit about why to turn off biopellets?
Thanks.

 

[Av8bluewater]

So was your dose of 1tsp per 500ml a weaker dose than the guys in that other threads?
Nevermind biopellet question.. I see now.

 

[chrismhaase]

jda - awesome writeup. Thanks for sharing.