sde1500
Active member
:headwally: Yea, not a totally unsubstantiated claim haha.
Air Scrubbing New Craze on Facebook....?
- Thread starter Tang and Chips
- Start date
:headwally: Yea, not a totally unsubstantiated claim haha.
Devaji108
New member
interesting... I like ppl experimenting like Reef frog said its what move the hobby forward, think of how much reefing as changed in the 15 to 30 years.
I dont know one way or the other and dont have an option either. but like exploring new ideas. be nice to see some lab tests done on this. at the very least it could be a useful tool to get organics from the rocks. if it does indeed to that.
keep us posted...
I dont know one way or the other and dont have an option either. but like exploring new ideas. be nice to see some lab tests done on this. at the very least it could be a useful tool to get organics from the rocks. if it does indeed to that.
keep us posted...
OllieNZ
New member
I'm not sure how an air stone will achieve the desired bubble size?
Afaik you need electrolysis or high pressure air through a pollen glass type diffuser to achieve nano bubbles.
As I said the Twinstar device purports to do this. I've never tried one and probably never will but they are becoming more popular in planted aquaria circles due to their algaecidal properties.
http://www.twinstar-europe.com/en/
And a discussion from UK planted aquarium society .....
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/twinstar-what-is-it.28335/
Afaik you need electrolysis or high pressure air through a pollen glass type diffuser to achieve nano bubbles.
As I said the Twinstar device purports to do this. I've never tried one and probably never will but they are becoming more popular in planted aquaria circles due to their algaecidal properties.
http://www.twinstar-europe.com/en/
And a discussion from UK planted aquarium society .....
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/twinstar-what-is-it.28335/
roosterchef
New member
Seems to me that not much of what is currently "canon law" about reef keeping in this hobby was derived by double-blind, peer-reviewed studies, in other words - rigorous science. Doubt there are many scientists with proper lab facilities and such that are going to spend research dollars and time on improving the aquarium hobby. (Yes I know the big public aquariums have staff scientists who do this.)
That said, I've always been a believer in letting other people be on the bleeding edge. I'm content to wait and see how it develops. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't think it COULD turn out to be legit, and the mechanisms by which it works will eventually be sussed out.
I think the discussion and experiments should continue. It always seems to take a couple years before a new idea is either accepted because of overwhelming anecdotal evidence, or proven bunk. That's my $.02
That said, I've always been a believer in letting other people be on the bleeding edge. I'm content to wait and see how it develops. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't think it COULD turn out to be legit, and the mechanisms by which it works will eventually be sussed out.
I think the discussion and experiments should continue. It always seems to take a couple years before a new idea is either accepted because of overwhelming anecdotal evidence, or proven bunk. That's my $.02
Yep. Shenanigans!
roosterchef
New member
Bpb
New member
This has been pretty widely experimented on, especially among one of my local reef clubs and on several other national forums. Whether you care to try it or not, you can't really say it's "cheesy marketing." Nobody is selling anything. It's free advice. The only equipment needed to run it, is an air pump, a limewood airstone, and flow. The folks that first began experimenting heavily and sharing their results with this practice sell none of those items, and it is merely advised as a possible way to improve the overall health of your tank. Not to earn Elegant Corals a boost in air pumps sales, and not stating that their bubble scrubbed corals are somehow better than non-bubble scrubbed corals. It's a methodology that has been practiced by some experienced folks in the hobby that have noticed positive responses from their livestock as a result of it. Nobody is selling anything.
OllieNZ
New member
Another link this time specific to nano bubbles a bit of very basic background.
http://www.azonano.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=3151
I still maintain you cannot produce them with an aquarium air pump and air stone .
http://www.azonano.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=3151
I still maintain you cannot produce them with an aquarium air pump and air stone .
Devaji108
New member
regardless if this works or not lets be civil honor ppl ideas and passion to move the hobby forward. just think someone out there could have an idea to revolutionize reefing but might be afraid to try as they might get flamed publicly.
so I was thinking about this concept and the idea it can lift organics off the rock ( if I am understanding this at all ....haha) to be taking out by what ever filtration you have. ppl with old tanks or dirty tanks is there a risk of to much to fast??
so I was thinking about this concept and the idea it can lift organics off the rock ( if I am understanding this at all ....haha) to be taking out by what ever filtration you have. ppl with old tanks or dirty tanks is there a risk of to much to fast??
Has anyone in this thread NOT been civil? No silly name calling or testy exchanges that I can see. I'm all for experimentation and exploration; doesn't mean that we should take these things on face value only though, and in this particular case I think it's not likely to be the next breakthrough. I'll be the first to say I'm wrong if it is, however. Remember, it's part of the scientific method to challenge assumptions.
vikinglord13
New member
I'm tagging along to this thread because I find this topic quite interesting myself. I think many discount what the purpose of microscrubbing is. Some think it's only meant to oxegenate the water (oh my skimmer does that). Sure, if a skimmer does, I'd rather spend $20 on an air pump system than a couple hundred on a quality skimmer. Another purpose of microscrubbing is to agitate corals and help them discharge their gunk.
Check out this video on youtube, it's enough to get me interested. It seems the only time this would actually be harmful is in a seahorse tank.
Check out this video on youtube, it's enough to get me interested. It seems the only time this would actually be harmful is in a seahorse tank.
vikinglord13
New member
For those of you who like results rather than hearsay consider this video from Fish of Hex. He talks about the effects microscrubbing had on his tank.
I've been doing it every night for about 6-8hrs for a week now. My tank has responded positively. There's actually a lot of research by some Japanese scientists and such. There's also a lot of people who do it that won't chime in cause there's so many skeptics that want to bash people for it.
It's basically a $30 setup that a lot of people have had good luck with.
I run a lee 3" wood air block about 2 inches from my return pump and it pulls in the fine bubbles. Some people go crazy and completely fill their tank with bubbles but I don't think there's a significant difference in what you will see.
I started cause I was hopeful it would help with the red slime I get in my sandbed.
What I have noticed
Sand bed has cleared up
Water is clearer and I have even taken carbon and gfo offline.
Skimmer pulls thicker skimmate
Filter socks fill up faster
Nitrates have dropped from 2 to 0 in just a few days despite taking gfo and carbon offline
The science behind it... Dont care. My tank looks better and it cost me basically nothing.
I think a lot of people think a skimmer will do the same thing but it's the bubbles coming in contact with corals and organics in the display that is the difference.
My theory is that you could most likely have the same results by having a large cleanup crew, heavy flow, heavy skimming, lots of beneficial bacteria etc. basically a very well setup tank that processes organics really well.
For me, I don't have much cleanup crew, the tank is young and my skimmer is under rated for my bioload so it has helped a whole lot in a short period.
It's basically a $30 setup that a lot of people have had good luck with.
I run a lee 3" wood air block about 2 inches from my return pump and it pulls in the fine bubbles. Some people go crazy and completely fill their tank with bubbles but I don't think there's a significant difference in what you will see.
I started cause I was hopeful it would help with the red slime I get in my sandbed.
What I have noticed
Sand bed has cleared up
Water is clearer and I have even taken carbon and gfo offline.
Skimmer pulls thicker skimmate
Filter socks fill up faster
Nitrates have dropped from 2 to 0 in just a few days despite taking gfo and carbon offline
The science behind it... Dont care. My tank looks better and it cost me basically nothing.
I think a lot of people think a skimmer will do the same thing but it's the bubbles coming in contact with corals and organics in the display that is the difference.
My theory is that you could most likely have the same results by having a large cleanup crew, heavy flow, heavy skimming, lots of beneficial bacteria etc. basically a very well setup tank that processes organics really well.
For me, I don't have much cleanup crew, the tank is young and my skimmer is under rated for my bioload so it has helped a whole lot in a short period.
I was interested in learning about the various overflow styles the other day and I looked up the original Herbie thread here on RC. I was shocked to find that the first several pages were filled with people calling BS on his "silent" claims, and going on and on about what he was claiming was impossible. Obviously in hind-sight he was right, and as people starting trying it they posted saying, "he's telling the truth, I tried it." The naysayers kept at it, and it was a good long while before they all ate crow. Now, it's one of the gold standard methods.
My point is, skepticism is healthy, but announcing your skepticism in a post where someone is trying to share a new idea is rarely helpful. I know everyone wants to be the cool guy that knows everything on the internet, but the fact is, no one does - especially in this hobby. Given that we can surely all acknowledge that there is a lot of room for improvement in this hobby, maybe we should reserve judgment more often in an effort to encourage experimentation? Otherwise, this form will become just another echo chamber, and we'll all be the last to know about innovations.
My point is, skepticism is healthy, but announcing your skepticism in a post where someone is trying to share a new idea is rarely helpful. I know everyone wants to be the cool guy that knows everything on the internet, but the fact is, no one does - especially in this hobby. Given that we can surely all acknowledge that there is a lot of room for improvement in this hobby, maybe we should reserve judgment more often in an effort to encourage experimentation? Otherwise, this form will become just another echo chamber, and we'll all be the last to know about innovations.
Just want to point out that your nitrates could have dropped as a result of taking gfo offline, since an increase in phosphate could encourage growth of algae or other organisms that take up phosphate and nitrate.
also how do you know it was the microbubbles that caused the changes in your tank and not the fact that you took gfo and carbon offline? or did you remove gfo and carbon as a reaction to the changes in your tank?
My nitrates have been 2-5 for a few months now. I don't have any issues with it at those levels and am pretty anti gfo normally. I have been dealing with pretty bad and worsening red slime in my sand bed though so I thought I would run a bit and see what happens with it. It did nothing positive for any algae and my colors seemed to have gotten a little worse.
flash forward a few weeks and I started reading a post made by a scientist on the "other" forum He links to a lot of articles that have people experimenting with nano scrubbing in the ocean and other bodies of water. Some cool theories thrown around but not actual solid proof that it has any specific benefits on our tanks that can not be accomplished in other ways.
So I threw a wood block in my tank with a air pump and tried it. I have only been doing it a few days now but in two days my tank showed significant positive results and nitrates dropped to 0 so I figured I would take the gfo and carbon offline. four days after taking them offline and still no nitrates even though I am feeding the tank extremely heavily.
flash forward a few weeks and I started reading a post made by a scientist on the "other" forum He links to a lot of articles that have people experimenting with nano scrubbing in the ocean and other bodies of water. Some cool theories thrown around but not actual solid proof that it has any specific benefits on our tanks that can not be accomplished in other ways.
So I threw a wood block in my tank with a air pump and tried it. I have only been doing it a few days now but in two days my tank showed significant positive results and nitrates dropped to 0 so I figured I would take the gfo and carbon offline. four days after taking them offline and still no nitrates even though I am feeding the tank extremely heavily.
ThRoewer
New member
This was kind of the way in the old days before the first Tunze Turbelle pumps came out. It really just makes a major mess all around the tank. I wouldn't do it even if it actually had a huge benefit.
As for bubbles dissolving - not gonna happen with air even if all oxygen would be dissolved as only 20% of air is actually oxygen. 78% is nitrogen. The rest is largely argon with traces of neon, helium and increasingly CO2.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
As for bubbles dissolving - not gonna happen with air even if all oxygen would be dissolved as only 20% of air is actually oxygen. 78% is nitrogen. The rest is largely argon with traces of neon, helium and increasingly CO2.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Where's the mess?
I run mine on a timer for a few hours at night. when I wake up my tank looks great.
