Robert Patterso
New member
San Diego is a great town. Used to go fishing out of Fishermans Landing on the Qualifier 105 for tuna. Lived in Ventura for 35 yrs.. sure do miss it
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
San Diego is a great town. Used to go fishing out of Fishermans Landing on the Qualifier 105 for tuna. Lived in Ventura for 35 yrs.. sure do miss it
mrbncal
New member
Just made an upgrade to my ATS..I was initially using (2) 25 watt JBJ macrogro CF lights but i just switched to (2) Coralife T5 mini-aqualights. I switched the the stock T5 bulbs to 3,000K bulbs.i guess ill see in a few days if theres a difference in algae growth(the CF lights were 6400k)
I like the design you have there. Any more photos of the build or your system would be appreciated.
reefkeeper78
New member
So I've read alot of this thread and have some questions/seeking advice....
I have a 120g dt with 125g basement sump, combined total of about 180g water volume with 130lbs live rock, 3" fine sand bed. I have a diy led fixture, mixed assorment of corals, mostly softies and LPS but have a couple sps. At this point I have about 10 fish most are under 2" at this time. The tank is about 14 months old but the rock much older from my previous smaller tanks. I have a large skimmer in the sump with a refugium housing basketball size of chaeto and sand with some rock in there too.
I've got a light coating of cyno on the sand and at times on the back walls of the tank, primarily on the overflow walls. The fish seem to take care of the sides of the tank and the rock work but don't do much for the sand. Also noticed some small spots of green turf algae starting to grow. I've tried most every approach found on the web as a solution for the problem. Honestly most have had some success but none have truly rid the tank of the problem algae/cyno.
What I've tried were these: GFO/Carbon reactors, Had a good result for reducing the build up on the glass and some result on the rocks but not the end all be all. Tried sock filters with bleach cleaning once a week with a good rinse and airing, polished the water well. Built a refugium in the sump, this made a huge difference in the smaller tank when it came to the turf algae and has really kept it out of my larger tank but didn't do much for the cyno. Tried nasuris snails to help stir the sand, not much change or stirring but neat to look at. Have also employed many other varieties of snails and hermits. Tried a lawnmower blenny to help remove the cyno from the rocks, did a pretty good job, though doesn't show much intrtest in the sand. Put a Kole tang in there, my overflows, back glass and rocks have never looked so good, almost spot less. Also as an added bonus, much to the blennies dismay, he has invoked some stirring of the sand. The tang finds the lawnmower blenny a direct competitor for his food source which there in invokes a chase which usually ends in the blenny rapidly moving under a rock, which in turn stirs the sand. I've tried going sockless as well hoping the chaeto and skimmer would do better, no real changes.
My nitrates, nitrites, phostphates all read 0. my ph is pretty steady at 81-8.2, temp is consitent at 78 with little swings to 79 on occasion. I don't beleive that I over feed and after reading how some feed in their tanks in this thread can safely say that I don't overfeed. I feed well rinsed mysis shrimp by means of target feedings once a week with all pumps off. I feed small sheets of nori, and small pelets of briste worms for all other fish. 95-98% gets eaten every time.
My plans are for much more fish but not sure I should due to cyno at this point. Thinking of trying an ATS but want to know what some others have for suggestions. I'm guessing that I would need a 10x10 or 12x12 screen with 4 cfl lights. But how much flow do I need? I multiplied the 144 square inches by 35 gph and came up with 5040 gph's. That can't be right..... my main pump runs at aproximately 1100 gph split into two returns. I could easily modify one line to feed an ATS, would this be adequate for my tank? Do I put the ATS in line with the return meaning that basicly the line will go horizontal over the ATS then dump the excess water into the sump via outlet on the other side. I know that my tank has to have both returns running at full tilt or it over flows rapidly.... don't ask how I know this. Just becuase of this reason I think I would feel better about a pump fed ATS so there isn't a motive for my death at the hands of my wife. I would sleep better if I could safely close both eyes at night!
I have a 120g dt with 125g basement sump, combined total of about 180g water volume with 130lbs live rock, 3" fine sand bed. I have a diy led fixture, mixed assorment of corals, mostly softies and LPS but have a couple sps. At this point I have about 10 fish most are under 2" at this time. The tank is about 14 months old but the rock much older from my previous smaller tanks. I have a large skimmer in the sump with a refugium housing basketball size of chaeto and sand with some rock in there too.
I've got a light coating of cyno on the sand and at times on the back walls of the tank, primarily on the overflow walls. The fish seem to take care of the sides of the tank and the rock work but don't do much for the sand. Also noticed some small spots of green turf algae starting to grow. I've tried most every approach found on the web as a solution for the problem. Honestly most have had some success but none have truly rid the tank of the problem algae/cyno.
What I've tried were these: GFO/Carbon reactors, Had a good result for reducing the build up on the glass and some result on the rocks but not the end all be all. Tried sock filters with bleach cleaning once a week with a good rinse and airing, polished the water well. Built a refugium in the sump, this made a huge difference in the smaller tank when it came to the turf algae and has really kept it out of my larger tank but didn't do much for the cyno. Tried nasuris snails to help stir the sand, not much change or stirring but neat to look at. Have also employed many other varieties of snails and hermits. Tried a lawnmower blenny to help remove the cyno from the rocks, did a pretty good job, though doesn't show much intrtest in the sand. Put a Kole tang in there, my overflows, back glass and rocks have never looked so good, almost spot less. Also as an added bonus, much to the blennies dismay, he has invoked some stirring of the sand. The tang finds the lawnmower blenny a direct competitor for his food source which there in invokes a chase which usually ends in the blenny rapidly moving under a rock, which in turn stirs the sand. I've tried going sockless as well hoping the chaeto and skimmer would do better, no real changes.
My nitrates, nitrites, phostphates all read 0. my ph is pretty steady at 81-8.2, temp is consitent at 78 with little swings to 79 on occasion. I don't beleive that I over feed and after reading how some feed in their tanks in this thread can safely say that I don't overfeed. I feed well rinsed mysis shrimp by means of target feedings once a week with all pumps off. I feed small sheets of nori, and small pelets of briste worms for all other fish. 95-98% gets eaten every time.
My plans are for much more fish but not sure I should due to cyno at this point. Thinking of trying an ATS but want to know what some others have for suggestions. I'm guessing that I would need a 10x10 or 12x12 screen with 4 cfl lights. But how much flow do I need? I multiplied the 144 square inches by 35 gph and came up with 5040 gph's. That can't be right..... my main pump runs at aproximately 1100 gph split into two returns. I could easily modify one line to feed an ATS, would this be adequate for my tank? Do I put the ATS in line with the return meaning that basicly the line will go horizontal over the ATS then dump the excess water into the sump via outlet on the other side. I know that my tank has to have both returns running at full tilt or it over flows rapidly.... don't ask how I know this. Just becuase of this reason I think I would feel better about a pump fed ATS so there isn't a motive for my death at the hands of my wife. I would sleep better if I could safely close both eyes at night!
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tyler91913
New member
reefkeeper: I think the idea is that you divide your GPH by 35 in order to calculate screen width. So if your actual (not advertised) GPH is 1100, then you want a screen width of about 32 inches.
Also, I think most people feed the ATS either from the line leading from the display tank to sump, OR they do it with a separate pump as a standalone system, as you say. I don't know of many people who feed the ATS from a T in the return pump, although I think it has been done.
As for screen size, there seem to be two ways of calculating it. One is to take the volume of your display and get that in square inches (so for a 120 gallon display, you need 120 square inches--something like a 10x12" sheet should be fine). The second way is to size the screen to match how much food you put in the tank. See the post one or two pages back regarding this idea. It will probably mean you can get away with a smaller screen.
As for bulbs, you want actual watts in roughly a one-to-one proportion to your screen size. So 4 CFLs may be what you need, depending on the wattage. You'd probably be off to a good start if you had 4x 23watt CFLs on a 10x10 screen (two to a side). But 4x 7 watt CFLs would be a waste of time--see what I mean?
Anyways, good luck. And note that I'm not very experienced with ATS technology (I just installed my first ATS today), but I've read a ton about them. The people here are great resources for ya'.
Also, I think most people feed the ATS either from the line leading from the display tank to sump, OR they do it with a separate pump as a standalone system, as you say. I don't know of many people who feed the ATS from a T in the return pump, although I think it has been done.
As for screen size, there seem to be two ways of calculating it. One is to take the volume of your display and get that in square inches (so for a 120 gallon display, you need 120 square inches--something like a 10x12" sheet should be fine). The second way is to size the screen to match how much food you put in the tank. See the post one or two pages back regarding this idea. It will probably mean you can get away with a smaller screen.
As for bulbs, you want actual watts in roughly a one-to-one proportion to your screen size. So 4 CFLs may be what you need, depending on the wattage. You'd probably be off to a good start if you had 4x 23watt CFLs on a 10x10 screen (two to a side). But 4x 7 watt CFLs would be a waste of time--see what I mean?
Anyways, good luck. And note that I'm not very experienced with ATS technology (I just installed my first ATS today), but I've read a ton about them. The people here are great resources for ya'.
tyler91913
New member
As promised, here are some pics of my brand new ATS. I'm sick of working on it, but I'm already thinking of things to do differently in version 2.0. I'd be happy for more feedback or questions though, if these pictures come through. Excuse the quality, they're lousy cell-phone pics.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...AAKg/-Y2NJaWRUNk/s720/IMG_20110905_232218.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AAKk/kT3xLLiXwlQ/s720/IMG_20110905_232233.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...AAKg/-Y2NJaWRUNk/s720/IMG_20110905_232218.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-...AAKk/kT3xLLiXwlQ/s720/IMG_20110905_232233.jpg
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Those reflectors are way, way too small. That is definitely part of your problem.
Yes
I would try 12 hours/day and if you get green growth, increase it. If you get yellow growth, decrease it. Refer to my post about a week or so back about this.
reefkeeper covered the screen size/flow issue pretty well. Although you have a large sump and more than 120g system water, so if you have a fish/invert refugium you may want to take that into consideration.
Based on your questions, I suggest you read the summary on posts 2001-2010. Pay attention to the pump flow testing in particular. As for your flow needing to be maxed out in the overflows, that may be related to the type of overflow (durso, open standpipe, etc) and the length and path of the plumbing. If you have lots of elbows and a long horizontal run without proper slope that could cause issues, or it could be siphoning and flushing which will affect flow rate over a short period of time. Regardless, I would probably plumb the ATS off a separate pump, or fix the flow issue. 2 standpipes (probably 1") running at full siphon with a 36" vertical drop can handle over 2000 GPH, so something is amiss.
tyler91913
New member
how much does it speed things up to start with a "seeded" screen? I ask because I don't have any algae in the display (a dusting on the glass maybe once a week) and, although I feel a little wierd about introducing algae, I wonder if this would help jump start things...
papagimp
COMAS Rocks!
alrighty.. reading through this thread for awhile now and decided to give the ATS method a go. Took an old HOB refugium, hacked it up, and tossed this together. Screen size is roughly 10 x 12. I've also picked up a larger 10" reflector and much larger spiral cf ~ 2700k.
Got a mag 7 running full open and this seems to keep the overflow fed screen covered decently although I'll probably make a few more slit attempts to see if I can improve upon it. Also going to rough up a different screen tonight, the one shown is a quick job for no other reason than leak testing the system. It's no where near rough enough i'm sure.
thoughts? questions? suggestions? poke fun at the newbie? let er rip!
Got a mag 7 running full open and this seems to keep the overflow fed screen covered decently although I'll probably make a few more slit attempts to see if I can improve upon it. Also going to rough up a different screen tonight, the one shown is a quick job for no other reason than leak testing the system. It's no where near rough enough i'm sure.
thoughts? questions? suggestions? poke fun at the newbie? let er rip!
TheFishMan65
New member
tyler, IIRC starting with a seeded screen does not help. Algae growth goes through phases (depending on N and P available). Now if the tank matches the phase of the screen good. Otherwise the algae will over run the screen to match the phase. At least that was the way I understood/remember it.
When in doubt rough it up
How far is the light from the screen.
When in doubt rough it up
How far is the light from the screen.JohnnyB in SD
New member
papaG,
10x12 lit on one side is supposed to be good for 60gl worth of filtering. Looks like you could light it from both sides if you moved it?
srusso has a nice light setup with the bulbs parallel to the screen with side reflectors, looks like it spreads the light better than the cone shaped reflectors.
Doubt you're getting 420gph (for a 12" width?) out of the Mag7 by the time it returns to your ATS.
Very clever and inexpensive build though.
My first one also broke some basic rules in the interest of doing something quick & cheap to see what this ATS business is really all about. Still worked good enough to convince me of the value of ATS filtering, I'm working on improved version now.
10x12 lit on one side is supposed to be good for 60gl worth of filtering. Looks like you could light it from both sides if you moved it?
srusso has a nice light setup with the bulbs parallel to the screen with side reflectors, looks like it spreads the light better than the cone shaped reflectors.
Doubt you're getting 420gph (for a 12" width?) out of the Mag7 by the time it returns to your ATS.
Very clever and inexpensive build though.
My first one also broke some basic rules in the interest of doing something quick & cheap to see what this ATS business is really all about. Still worked good enough to convince me of the value of ATS filtering, I'm working on improved version now.
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srusso
Active member
I attempted this, and although it seemed to make a difference after the first week of growth. The second week was very close to that of a normal two week old screen.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
My screen started up quick enough. I wouldn't recommend seeded screens to anyone beyond rubbing some algae on a new one.
SPotter
Active member
reefkeeper.....i would either have it fed by your overflow or a totally separate pump. I just built one that is fed off of my return pump from a manifold. My sump is in the basement as well and what I am noticing is that its taking away flow to the dt on the main floor. Its also difficult to determine the gph. I am in the process of building a larger tank that will use an ats and that will be fed by overflow.
srusso
Active member
alrighty.. reading through this thread for awhile now and decided to give the ATS method a go. Took an old HOB refugium, hacked it up, and tossed this together. Screen size is roughly 10 x 12. I've also picked up a larger 10" reflector and much larger spiral cf ~ 2700k.
Got a mag 7 running full open and this seems to keep the overflow fed screen covered decently although I'll probably make a few more slit attempts to see if I can improve upon it. Also going to rough up a different screen tonight, the one shown is a quick job for no other reason than leak testing the system. It's no where near rough enough i'm sure.
thoughts? questions? suggestions? poke fun at the newbie? let er rip!
It's a good start, great splash guard.
What size tank is this for? You will need a second lamp.
jrp1588
New member
I've got a 700gph glass holes overflow on order. I plan to push about 500gph though it, and the screen is 7" wide. That's about 70gph/in, about double what is recommended. The screen has matured to the point where it's producing green hair algae, so I won't have the nasty black stuff detaching.
Should I be ok with this much flow? I assuming I'll have to widen the slot to reduce noise.
Should I be ok with this much flow? I assuming I'll have to widen the slot to reduce noise.
Thanks although i take no credit for the build as i bought it from another reefer who stopped using it... I simply modified the lighting. Heres a vid of it in action from the original owner
reefkeeper78
New member
Well my thought would be to tee off the return pump. Its turned back about 25% so I could use that 25% to feed the ATS, and being the ATS is in the basement with the sump, it would have decent flow. If I were to cap the end of the pipe with the slot and put a valve before it, I could adjust the amount of flow to a desired amount and make a measurement of flow easier. If it took away some of the flow to the DT, it might cut down some of the noise of the mega flow overflows. I didn't dare turn the pump back more than the 25% its at now.
Also, will an ATS help me reduce the brownish red crap on the sand or will I still have that problem with the ATS. Can an ATS be run with a skimmer, if so before or after the skimmer? Sorry for all the basic questions.
Also, will an ATS help me reduce the brownish red crap on the sand or will I still have that problem with the ATS. Can an ATS be run with a skimmer, if so before or after the skimmer? Sorry for all the basic questions.
tyler91913
New member
Huh. I thought seeded just meant rubbing algae on it. But I guess it actually means using a screen that has algae growing on it? Okay. I guess I was asking about whether or not it would help to rub it with some algae.
tyler, IIRC starting with a seeded screen does not help. Algae growth goes through phases (depending on N and P available). Now if the tank matches the phase of the screen good. Otherwise the algae will over run the screen to match the phase. At least that was the way I understood/remember it.
When in doubt rough it up
Ditto to above. Thanks for the advice. What does IIRC stand for? The light is about 4 inches on one side and about 6 inches on the other. I'd move it closer on the 6 inch side, except the handle from my gate valve is in the way.
Here's a question about roughing the screen. I purposely left the bottom 5 inches of a 13x10" screen unroughed, because an 8x10" screen is plenty for what I've got in there and is suited to my lighting, but I wanted the end of the screen to sit in the water to avoid the waterfall effect. Tell me, is what I have the equivalent of an 8x10? I mean, I'm sure the smooth bottom part will grow some algae eventually, but not the way the rough top will. Thoughts?
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