Ok guys I'm going to attempt my first ats on a 75g tank with a 20 gal sump I have about 21 inches wide total for the ats and didn't really want to go over the tank with it incase of spray that would leave me with about 13 inches high but I need to do a single sided one from what I can tell I would need 18x18 screen the only way I could do this is to drop the screen all the way to the bottom of the tank and go up but wasn't wanting to go that high because it almost hits my drawer for the stand is there another way?
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
Dustin1300
Reefaholic
Thought I'd share with the others that use CFLs in ATS or house...Here's a great deal on them:
http://www.bensoutlet.com/products/3-pack-compact-florescent-cfl-bare-spiral-light-bulbs
http://www.bensoutlet.com/products/3-pack-compact-florescent-cfl-bare-spiral-light-bulbs
srusso
Active member
Thras, this is the current sizing info
Planning your Algae Scrubber
There are 2 basic ways of supplying flow to an Algae Scrubber: directly from the overflow, or from a dedicated pump.
The above diagram does not illustrate the top-of-tank Algae Scrubber, which would apply to someone running a sumpless system, however this is just a modification of the pump-driven Algae Scrubber with the pump in the display tank.
The very first step you need to do before buying, measuring, or sketching up anything, is to decide how you are going to supply your Algae Scrubber, and determine what your available flow rate is.
Available Flow
In any case, you need to measure the flow rate. Do this step. It is critical. Do not, I repeat, do not calculate the flow rate based on pump curves and head-feet of pressure. This may sound like a total pain in the behind, but just trust me on this one. Would you rather go through all the effort of building an Algae Scrubber, only to have problems and find out that you didn't have as much flow as you thought you did? Believe me, I've been there.
If you've been reading this thread, you will see that at some point I started making a big deal about this. The reason is that it is a big deal and I think many people don't realize that their pump does not pump at the rated flow, and in the majority of cases, it doesn't come close to the flow calculated by using a standard head-foot calculator program or table. So I have chosen to make it the #1 priority for an Algae Scrubber design, hands down. You have to know your actual flow.
For a drain fed Algae Scrubber, fill a pitcher with the water entering the sump. You will probably need to rig up a temporary pipe or routing configuration so that you can fill the container. For a pump-fed Algae Scrubber, set up the pump in a sink filled with water to the same level as your pump will be submerged, and connect the tubing required to reach the height of the connection to the horizontal slot tube, so that you mimic as best as possible the actual conditions. Backpressure created by the slot/screen is negligible unless your flow rate significantly exceeds 35 GPH per inch of slot length.
Now that you've done all this, fill the container and record the time it takes to fill it. Do this at least a dozen times. The way I do this is by using a recording device, like a digital voice recorder, and just calling out "Go" and "Stop", then afterward, playing it back and using a stopwatch to get the time intervals. You could also have someone else run the stopwatch and write down the times. Average out the times and then figure out how many gallons per hour of flow you are actually getting. If you have multiple drains, measure and extrapolate GPH for each individually, and then add together.
For instance, if you are using a 1/2 gallon pitcher, and it takes 4.5 seconds to fill it, then you would have (0.5 gallons / 4.5 seconds) x (3600 seconds / 1 hour) which would be 400 GPH.
Don't be surprised if you have a lot less flow from your pump than you thought you had. I had less than 1/2 of what I thought it was. Head-feet calculations are usually way off, because most people don't use big enough return hose or have other restrictions in the plumbing. Some of it is inherent to reef-ready aquarium design (1" drain, 3/4" return, Danner Mag-Drive 9.5 and larger pumps need 1.5" return, see a problem?). So don't feel bad. A lot of people are in your situation, but they just don't know it.
Start with a clean pump. If your pump is not clean, soak it in vinegar for 15 minutes and scrub it good. After running an Algae Scrubber for about 4-5 months, your pump flow will drop about 15%, and by 6 months, it will have dropped by 25%, so you want to know your best-case flow and build around that. It's a lot easier to start with a throttled-back clean pump and open it a little when the flow rate decreases. Figure out your system flow rate, multiply by 80%, and that will be a good starting point. But, it's not going to kill you to start at full flow, and end up with a little less over time. You might just want to clean your pump a little more often, say every 3 months. So it's up to you. Just being aware of your system conditions puts you miles ahead.
Big Basic Change #1 - Screen Size
Originally, the standard method used to calculate the screen size required was based on the size of the tank. Around September 2011, that method was revised to be based on feeding amount. This is a very important change, because not only does it mean an Algae Scrubber screen is more appropriately sized, it also means you will get better growth results. As it turns out, bigger is not necessarily better when it comes to your algae screen – the algae on a screen that is too large compared to the amount being fed will become nutrient deficient over time as the algae will want to grow across the entire screen. Concentrating this algae growth down to the appropriate size in accordance with the amount fed means you will typically get more green growth, and green hair algae is what filters the best (and smells the least, I might add).
The good news here is that this means that in most cases, you can get away with a significantly smaller screen, and guesstimating your bio-load specific to your system is completely unnecessary.
Once you figure out your available flow, then it's time to figure out your optimal screen dimensions.
There are 2 ways of looking at this: square inches based on length and width dimension, and square inches based on illuminated surface area. The latter is technically more accurate, but since most people light both sides, the former is usually referenced.
The new rule is based on cube-equivalent amount of food fed daily, regardless of how many gallons you have in the system. You need 12 square inches of screen illuminated on BOTH SIDES with a total of 12 watts of fluorescent light for 18 hours/day for each cube-equivalent fed into the system per day. That means 6 watts per side of real wattage, not equivalent wattage. LED wattage is addressed separately as it has a different set of rules.
The cube-equivalent is defined as any ONE of the following:
1 frozen cube
10 pinches of flake food
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food
3.25 mL of liquid coral food
If you feed something else and are having a hard time determining the cube-equivalent, then take the daily amount of food, put it in a blender with some water and puree it well, then strain it using a coffee filter (or a rotifer sieve if you happen to have a spare one laying around) and pour the food into an empty Ocean Nutrition or other cube-type food tray, and you will have the cube-equivalent for that amount of food.
If you light the screen from only one side, double the dimensional measurement of the screen; light requirement is the same, it’s just all on one side.
For a non-vertical screen, double the dimensional measurement again. Any screen that is not 100% vertical is treated as a horizontal screen (even if it’s only slightly slanted). This is because of the channeling properties inherent to a slanted or horizontal screen; there is an immediate loss of efficiency when the screen is non-vertical.
So, just so we're 100% clear on this:
Vertical, lit from both sides: 12 square inches of screen material per cube of food per day, 12 watts of light split between each side.
Vertical, lit from only one side: 24 square inches of screen material per cube of food per day, 12 watts of light on one side.
Non-vertical: 48 square inches of screen material per cube of food per day. Lighting must increase by a factor of 1.5 (discussed in the lighting section). In this case, a MINIMUM of 18 watts of light is needed, preferably much, much more.
percula99
New member
When I used to use air stones in my tank for my under gravel filter, I used wooden air stones. They provide a much finer bubble and dense bubble field than the store bought type you are using now. Wooden air stones do break down over time however and need to be replaced. The cost can be staggering. I went to the local lumber yard and bought myself a piece of basswood (called lime in Britain and linden or basswood in North America.) I cut my own on a table saw and had air stones to last a long long time. You could cut those to the size of the store bought stones.
Dustin1300
Reefaholic
I saw an article on RB in March and just got the link to the seller. They make wood airstones and are only $3.59 for a 3"X3/4" airstone. They mention in listing that they will build custom sizes so sounds like an option that would not be as unreliable as a common airstone.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Aquarium-Fish-/20754/i.html?nma=true&item=260974692834&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&si=j50wpF%252BJ%252FCqWd3B%252Fm3qHIxoeUqw%253D&hash=item3cc34dc9e2&_ssn=hoolko
***I am in no way affiliated with this seller, just thought I'd share. I'm not planning on using the new design as it would not work with my setup and I have the room for a 3D box which I'd like to build
srusso
Active member
Algae Scrubbers in the news!
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...-20120429_1_algae-bloom-harbor-water-scrubber
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...-20120429_1_algae-bloom-harbor-water-scrubber
faisal629
Coolest Member
Im planing on building a scrubber for my 60 gallon cube with a 20 gal sump, I have had major algae problems before even with water from a new ro/di filter, My DT will have lights on for 12-14 hrs (LED so on low power) I plan on keeping it heavily stocked and feed a lot, Ill run 6 660nm stars and 2 455nm led on each side, how big of a screen would you recommend?
and does everything else look fine?
and does everything else look fine?
srusso
Active member
Right now I assume it will be about the same give or take a few...
it is believed with the new design it will be able to handle far more light, b/c it will be very hard to burn the algae if possible at all. That will be tested over time.
srusso
Active member
Another week has past. Green growth all over the screen. Hard to see in the first pic, all yellow-ish growth is actually a very nice heathy green. In the second pic I turned the scrubber cfl on to get a better color.
It's a 30 gallon with 3 small mollies in it... Things are moving a little slow...
Saadatski
New member
I just set up my algae scrubber about two weeks ago, and i have not seen to many results from it, though i will not be critical this early. What am i doing wrong? My screen after two weeks does not look too dense and full of algae like you guys. It gets a lot of algae, but not thick like you guys.
Here is my setup. It is fed by the return pump, which t's off to the tank. The flow of the scrubber is controlled by a ball valve and whatever ater is left travels up to the tank.
Here is the screen and i have not seen too much growth after two weeks. I am due to clean it every Wednesday, so tomorrow.
Here is my setup. It is fed by the return pump, which t's off to the tank. The flow of the scrubber is controlled by a ball valve and whatever ater is left travels up to the tank.
Here is the screen and i have not seen too much growth after two weeks. I am due to clean it every Wednesday, so tomorrow.
looks just fine, they can take a couple of weeks to start maturing. I am 5 weeks in and only just started to get some good growth. This is normal, just give it a rinse to knock off any slimy crap and put it back in.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
need more info.
Dimensions of screen L x W?
Amount you feed daily on average?
Size of reflectors & lamp wattage?
How long do you run them?
Do the lamps extend past the refectors?
Did you rough up the screen thoroughly?
Estimated flow to the screen (total in GPH and/or GPH per inch of width)?
What are your N and P at?
Do you have lots of algae in the tank?
Dimensions of screen L x W?
Amount you feed daily on average?
Size of reflectors & lamp wattage?
How long do you run them?
Do the lamps extend past the refectors?
Did you rough up the screen thoroughly?
Estimated flow to the screen (total in GPH and/or GPH per inch of width)?
What are your N and P at?
Do you have lots of algae in the tank?
srusso
Active member
+1!! You have a nice build, you seemed to have the build proper and you completely understood that... Just wondering how you managed to build a good scrubber but not have read about maturing time?
Up to 4 weeks to start growing green
After a few months it will take a little more effort to remove the algae.
During first weeks don't over clean green, and rub off diatoms under running water with your hands.
Ps, is that held up by just that one red support? May want to rethink that, algae can get heavy...
Saadatski
New member
The Screen is 8x6 48" square inches.
I feed about one cube of mysis a day, but soon i will be feeding two cause of new fish.
The reflectors are the ones you get at Lowes, the smallest ones as i foudn no point to get bigger ones. I use two 23w CFL bulbs that are 2700k color.
I run them 18 hours a day
the lamps do extend like half an inch past the reflectors
Ruffed the screen like a mother lover lol
Very tough to measure since the pump is also a return also. I make the ball valve at like 45 degrees, so i guarantee you it is getting plenty of flow. I dont know if you can see it, but the scrubber is fed first and any water that the valve restricts goes up to the tank.
Nitrates last time i checked nitrates were at 15ppm, and i dont have a test for phosphates for the time being.
I did have a severe cyano outbreak last month that i controlled with siphoning and water changes. I also found that when i gave my skimmer a viniger bath, the cyano died out a bit. I do have some left of the sand and that was the reason i built the scrubber.
Thanks for the compliment! Yeah when i read this thread i saw no one tried to feed it from the return, and that was the best and cost effective plan for me since a new pump would have run me another $60. I also love it off the return because i get as much flow as i need and more. What happens is that it goes to a T joint, and at the end of it is the valve for the scrubber. Any water that does not go into the scrubber simply goes up to the tank.
Well since the build was cost effective (cause im cheap), I simply added a hook into the center beam of my stand. Then i just took 20 gauge wire, looped it and created a twist able knot. The more i twist the knot, the tighter the loop gets to lift up the scrubber. It surprisingly held well, and it holds tight. The scrubber can hold itself with the PVC supported by the top of the tank, but i use the wire to make sure the scrubber is leveled.
Thanks for the help!! I will wait the maturing time so i can get rid of that cyano and get some corals back in the tank!
I just set up mine week ago, seem lots of brown algea, that I can rub out with my fingers, then rinse the screen under tap water. Easy dry the screen with paper towel then back to operation. Note that I don't rub very well, kind of leave some on the screen. Is my cleaning process correct? thx
srusso
Active member
Perfect
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
You screen is sized for 4 cubes/day, so you're 4x oversized right now. Bigger is not better. If you plan on feeding 4 cubes/day in the near future, then you're fine. Otherwise I would trim in down. But that's not likely the reason it's not greening up.
Looks good
All the rest sounds good. I think your screen is 1) in the start-up phase, and it will take 4-6 weeks to really get 'cured' 2) oversized so you may have trouble growing green at some point (probably a few months down the road
Dustin1300
Reefaholic
With the above configuration, you have very little control of the flow that will go over the ATS. Trying to think of a different way to configure that and the easiest modification I would do is adding a gate valve after the Tee to the bubble reducer which will give you control of the flow going to the ATS.
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