Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

Define thin? The knitting canvas we get here (I think it is the same stuff, is it made by Darice?) is only 1/16" thick, or about 1.5-2mm. It's tougher stuff than you think if it. I take a saw blade to each side for 5 minutes easy and I don't tear it. That's 5 minutes for each side of a 13" x 4" section, just like in the video.

 

[nanomania]

kool..... will do it this weekend.....

 

[crn005]

I hear a lot from people overseas that they have a hard time finding the knitting canvas that we over here use. From what I have seen over the years, it is the perfect material. It's almost like someone needs to setup a network of people in other countries to ship a bunch of this stuff to so that they can distribute it!!!

Yeah I wasn't able to find the exact mesh you guys are using back in The States. I would set myself up as the Asian distributor but I'll be back state side in a few weeks. I had a decent amount of success with the thinner stuff with a lower hole concentration. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

 

[radksa]

Wow, this is a great thread, so much information!

Now, I admit, I only recently became aware of the ats concept, but I really am excited to try this in my upcoming tank build. With 170+ pages, if this question has already been asked, I apologize. Has anyone tried to use the Kessil H150 grow lamps designed to grow plants? There is a red led unit, among others. With a closed box design, could you suspend 2 lamps from the stand frame in a side-lying position on either side of the ats? I realize there are probably cheaper led setups, but Kessil seems to be doing some great stuff with the leds, not just in the aquarium trade, but also in hydroponics, and if I can avoid soldering, I'd prefer to do so. Any thoughts would be great, thanks,
Scott

 

[crn005]

Wow, this is a great thread, so much information!

Now, I admit, I only recently became aware of the ats concept, but I really am excited to try this in my upcoming tank build. With 170+ pages, if this question has already been asked, I apologize. Has anyone tried to use the Kessil H150 grow lamps designed to grow plants? There is a red led unit, among others. With a closed box design, could you suspend 2 lamps from the stand frame in a side-lying position on either side of the ats? I realize there are probably cheaper led setups, but Kessil seems to be doing some great stuff with the leds, not just in the aquarium trade, but also in hydroponics, and if I can avoid soldering, I'd prefer to do so. Any thoughts would be great, thanks,
Scott

Welcome to the ats club! I have never heard of Kessil's growing lights before, but judging from their charts, the purple, magenta, and red should be able to produce the correct spectrum (magenta probably being the most effective considering it is heavier in the red spectrum and adds a bit of the lower spectrum as well). However, the problem you might encounter with these guys is that they don't disperse the light very well. You would need a decent amount of distance between the mesh and the light. They are spot lights after all. If that's not an issue for you then try them out!

 

[pat02026]

Hi everyone just want to share my plans for a new scrubber and have some experienced eyes look over and be sure I'm not missing anything here

average 3 cubes a day so heres the breakdown
36 square inches of screen
6"x6" square illuminated
72 watts total lighting (custom LED)
36 watts per side directly focused (attempting even distribution with several different optics until I am satisfied with coverage)
9x 660nm red and 3 450-465nm royal blues per side
I will calculate flow once I build the acrylic enclosure and have the slot tube finished. I have several different pumps to choose from, as well as the option to use a feed from my main system return pump if volume allows to achieve 35gph/inch

Thanks, Pat

 

[crn005]

Hi everyone just want to share my plans for a new scrubber and have some experienced eyes look over and be sure I'm not missing anything here

average 3 cubes a day so heres the breakdown
36 square inches of screen
6"x6" square illuminated
72 watts total lighting (custom LED)
36 watts per side directly focused (attempting even distribution with several different optics until I am satisfied with coverage)
9x 660nm red and 3 450-465nm royal blues per side
I will calculate flow once I build the acrylic enclosure and have the slot tube finished. I have several different pumps to choose from, as well as the option to use a feed from my main system return pump if volume allows to achieve 35gph/inch

Thanks, Pat

Hello Pat!

I would recommend two things. One, lose the optics. Unless you're planning on having the lights a decent distance away from the screen (which I wouldn't recommend doing), there's no reason for them. The more even the light distribution, the better. Two, I don't think you should have one blue for every 3 reds. The lower end of the light spectrum (blue) seems to be used much more efficiently and at a wider range of the spectrum for photosynthesis than at the higher end (reds). I would say two blues per side would be plenty enough. That's one blue for every 5 reds. Anything more than two per side would be wasted, imo.

 

[JDUBBS220]

ATS and Macro?

ATS and Macro?

Hello all. Recently back into the hobby after a 5 yr split.Setting up a 75g reef with a 30g sump w/fuge. In the planning stages and am not in a rush. Going to naturally cycle the tank 12 wks with 100lbs dry pukani rock (prob 10% live as well) and and aprox. 75 lbs. aragonite substrate in the display. Lighting for the display with be provided by 2x250w MH 15k bulbs and 4x65w PC 460 actinics. Kit will be hanging 1ft above tank no canopy. Schedule for lights will be :12p actinincs on,2p MH on, 8p MH off, 10p acticinics off and moonlights until next cycle. Over flows will filter to the undertank sump with fuge and macro algae.I will be running a skimmer at some point when I get fish.
That being said I am reading a lot about "ATS" and am interested in doing one for my system but am not sure if its more beneficial or even necessary if you are running a macro fuge with Chaeto. Can you run with both macro and "ATS" and if so where would the water be directed accordingly in sequence. Appreciate any and all advice about the above info and design of this system!

Thanks

 

[jwoyshnar]

Some say you can't, I have for years successfully. Best advice is to try it and watch it. Make adjustments as needed. I also feel the same about the "guidelines" with scrubbers

 

[_shorty_]

Hello all. Recently back into the hobby after a 5 yr split.Setting up a 75g reef with a 30g sump w/fuge. In the planning stages and am not in a rush. Going to naturally cycle the tank 12 wks with 100lbs dry pukani rock (prob 10% live as well) and and aprox. 75 lbs. aragonite substrate in the display. Lighting for the display with be provided by 2x250w MH 15k bulbs and 4x65w PC 460 actinics. Kit will be hanging 1ft above tank no canopy. Schedule for lights will be :12p actinincs on,2p MH on, 8p MH off, 10p acticinics off and moonlights until next cycle. Over flows will filter to the undertank sump with fuge and macro algae.I will be running a skimmer at some point when I get fish.
That being said I am reading a lot about "ATS" and am interested in doing one for my system but am not sure if its more beneficial or even necessary if you are running a macro fuge with Chaeto. Can you run with both macro and "ATS" and if so where would the water be directed accordingly in sequence. Appreciate any and all advice about the above info and design of this system!

Thanks

Hopefully, someone will chime in that's actually doing this - but you should be able to run both. However - once the ATS catches up, it will ultimately choke out nutrients and growth of macro algaes... you could potentially outfeed your scrubber and find that balance to be able to maintain both - but ultimately it's probably not necessary unless you're just wanting a source of food for herbivors. I've considered it for that reason, but haven't attempted it yet.

Oh - there you go - jwoyshnar is doing it.

 

[srusso]

I am reporting that using "NoSalt" as a potassium dosing method has not worked for my tank. "NoSalt" is mostly made of potassium chloride, the brightwell potassium product is made mostly from potassium sulfate.

In my findings are dosing potassium chloride did not have the same "blue-ing" effect that the brightwell dosing had on my blue corals. Also did not see the healthier growth I saw when using the brightwell potassium.

I will be ordering a one pound bag of potassium sulfate from aquarium ferts. to see if it has a similar effect as the brightwell.

I would NOT recommend dosing potassium chloride or "NoSalt" as we discussed in the past after completing my own tests... I do not believe it is a suitable potassium dosing method for replenishing a potassium limited, algae scrubbed aquarium.

 

[dirtycontour]

I'm in the process of making scrubber. Sorry if this has been discussed already; I'm only lighting one side, should I still rough both sides?

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Potassium Update

Potassium Update

What a coincidence, I was going to post my current Potassium status as well.
I have finally gotten my level to 400ppm ± 30ppm over the last month. Am trying to maintain it at a consistent 400 but haven't dialed the dosing in yet. Using about 400ml Brightwells every 2 weeks added to my ATO reservoir.
My 8x14 LED scrubber just put out it's best harvest since installation.

 

[srusso]

What a coincidence, I was going to post my current Potassium status as well.
I have finally gotten my level to 400ppm ± 30ppm over the last month. Am trying to maintain it at a consistent 400 but haven't dialed the dosing in yet. Using about 400ml Brightwells every 2 weeks added to my ATO reservoir.
My 8x14 LED scrubber just put out it's best harvest since installation.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! For helping me collect data on this!! This is fantastic news!!

Johnny you have defiantly helped the scrubber community greatly in these past years! Thank you for sticking around and helping gather data!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I am reporting that using "NoSalt" as a potassium dosing method has not worked for my tank. "NoSalt" is mostly made of potassium chloride, the brightwell potassium product is made mostly from potassium sulfate.

In my findings are dosing potassium chloride did not have the same "blue-ing" effect that the brightwell dosing had on my blue corals. Also did not see the healthier growth I saw when using the brightwell potassium.

I will be ordering a one pound bag of potassium sulfate from aquarium ferts. to see if it has a similar effect as the brightwell.

I would NOT recommend dosing potassium chloride or "NoSalt" as we discussed in the past after completing my own tests... I do not believe it is a suitable potassium dosing method for replenishing a potassium limited, algae scrubbed aquarium.

Hmmm, that's too bad - that was a cheap source of potassium from what I recall. I'll be interested to hear how the aquarium ferts stuff does. Now that Birghtwell is going out of business, can't rely on finding that stuff any more

Hello all. Recently back into the hobby after a 5 yr split.Setting up a 75g reef with a 30g sump w/fuge. In the planning stages and am not in a rush. Going to naturally cycle the tank 12 wks with 100lbs dry pukani rock (prob 10% live as well) and and aprox. 75 lbs. aragonite substrate in the display. Lighting for the display with be provided by 2x250w MH 15k bulbs and 4x65w PC 460 actinics. Kit will be hanging 1ft above tank no canopy. Schedule for lights will be :12p actinincs on,2p MH on, 8p MH off, 10p acticinics off and moonlights until next cycle. Over flows will filter to the undertank sump with fuge and macro algae.I will be running a skimmer at some point when I get fish.
That being said I am reading a lot about "ATS" and am interested in doing one for my system but am not sure if its more beneficial or even necessary if you are running a macro fuge with Chaeto. Can you run with both macro and "ATS" and if so where would the water be directed accordingly in sequence. Appreciate any and all advice about the above info and design of this system!

Thanks

Like J said you can run both if you balance it right. There may be a benefit to having the chaeto and macro but I personally haven't tried those to see what that might be.

At our recent frag fest we had Mark Vera as a speaker, he presented on algae and nutrient control. I didn't see his presentation but I had someone tell me that in his presentation he basically said that if you have the option of using a macro-based refugium vs and algae scrubber, do the algae scrubber. His reasoning was pretty much exactly what we in the pro-scrubber crowd have been touting for years - higher flow rate, boundary layer issues, better light proximity, less shading issues, etc. He did say that if you do run a refugium, that you have to prune almost daily or every other day to promote new growth and prevent shading, and if you feed the macro back to the tank (tangs) that you are essentially defeating the purpose of the macro if the intent is to reduce nutrients - you have to take it out of the system and throw it away (of course, if you're feeding less regular food because of it, then that's OK to feed it back in). So with all that being said, you can still run both, if you want to. What it would come down to is a combination of factors, like feeding vs how much flow and light are on both the scrubber and the fuge. More flow and light on the fuge will promote more growth, and cutting back on light (not flow) on the scrubber would limit its growth so that it would not out-complete the other macros.

 

[nanomania]

hey guys, my leds have finally come... im confused as to go for 3 or 4 led...

 

[nanomania]

and here is my heatsink glue but its cpu compound...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

That looks like thermal grease, not adhesive/epoxy. You need to drill holes and use screws to hold the LEDs in place if it is only grease.

3 LEDs should be good for a small screen - which is what you are planning to use, correct?

 

[nanomania]

That looks like thermal grease, not adhesive/epoxy. You need to drill holes and use screws to hold the LEDs in place if it is only grease.

3 LEDs should be good for a small screen - which is what you are planning to use, correct?

yup, the screen is small 4"x5"... using screws? or can i buy glue online? i dont know how to connect (wire) the leds... is it + to - or + to + ? guess ill have to go to a local led guy...

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Series is wired + to -
There is loads of advice and information specific to LED construction available in the DIY forum