Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just to be clear, you take the + wire on the driver to the + on the first LED, then from the - on that to the + on the next LED and so on. Current flows into the + and out of the -. Holes flow the other way. If you don't know what that means, then disregard that last sentence and stamp NERD on my forehead. If you do know what that means, then you're a nerd.

 

[nanomania]

here are the pics of diff connection....

 

[nanomania]

1st or second?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Can't tell from those dark fuzzy pics which terminal is + and which is -. This is a very basic question though, here are a few pic to expand on my answer.

In the above pic, the long red wire at the top is the from the (+) of the driver. The long black wire goes to the (-) of the driver.

In this close-up of the left half, you can see that the long red wire goes into the (+) terminal of the first LED.

Then the series chain continues from the (-) terminal of the first LED to the (+) terminal of the second. Current flows from the (+) terminal of the driver to into the (+) terminal (pad) of the LED, then out of the (-) terminal of the first LED to the (+) terminal of the next LED, and so on.

Don't get confused by the double-wire connection in the middle. Those are 2 blues wired in parallel within the series to act as a current divider so that they run at 1/2 power. It's what I do to knock down the intensity of the blue and I have never seen anyone wire LEDs like this before, so unless you understand what is done here, don't do it.

 

[nanomania]

dont wana take any risk, ill let the led guy do it...

 

[nanomania]

hey guys, got 2 problems...

1) i can only add the 660nm on 1 side, on the other side is the 30w cfl 6500k bulb... there is a space issue.. is that ok, has anyone used/done something like this?? will it make any diff.?

2) if i build U shape ATS, for a 4"screen, howmuch flow should be there or should i apply same 35g per inch rule?

 

[nanomania]

hey guys, got 2 problems...

1) i can only add the 660nm on 1 side, on the other side is the 30w cfl 6500k bulb... there is a space issue.. is that ok, has anyone used/done something like this?? will it make any diff.?

2) if i build U shape ATS, for a 4"screen, howmuch flow should be there or should i apply same 35g per inch rule?

 

[nanomania]

anyone??

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

What is a U shape scrubber?

As for the screen with 2 different types of lights, I would think the LEDs would take up less room than the CFL, so what is your question? Confused. 6500K is the wrong spectrum - you want 2700-3000K or "warm" white for CFL.

 

[nanomania]

well im making the scrubber in fuge and my sump has a lid.. i have cheato growing in the fuge under CFL. so on one side there will be CFL and on the other side will be led and in between will be the screen...

U shape means:

 

[nanomania]

well im making the scrubber in fuge and my sump has a lid.. i have cheato growing in the fuge under CFL. so on one side there will be CFL and on the other side will be led and in between will be the screen...

U shape means:

 

[nanomania]

will load a video of my sump if you want.....

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

The guideline is the same, 35 GPH/in of screen width.

 

[nanomania]

ok... thanks...

 

[_shorty_]

fine tune? or add some other methods?

fine tune? or add some other methods?

Okay - so I've run an ATS for over 2.5 years (what I'd consider as) successfully. Based off of semi-recent sizing guidline changes - When I moved from my 29gallon livestock to my new 115gal, I was basically able to use the same screen. It's basically a 5 x 8 screen lit on both sides. I feed probably the equivalent of 2 - 2.5 cubes a day. I get good growth on the scrubber. Within two week period on one side, I get 3d growth that comes out at least a 3/8 inch or sometimes better just on one side.

The scrubber seems to keep nitrates at virtually 0. Maybe 1 or 2 - just a tiny bit of color to the test solution. Phosphates is a similar story - just a little bit of color in the test solution, so somewhere between 0 and I think the lowest color comparison is .225ppm on my kit.

During initial tank cycle - I left lights on, and I had a lot of GHA develop in display. If I did again - I would definitely keep lights OFF. That GHA in DT is very slowly dwindling down and some even browning out a little. I don't think I'm seeing new GHA growth in the display. I am now dealing with cyano and diatoms. I know this is supposed to be a 'natural' part of the tank maturing process, but the diatoms grow pretty rapidly. I had continuous cyano problem in the 29gal, and I attributed it to lack of flow in DT, build up of detritus in rockwork and sump, and odd light spectrum of marineland LED fixture. All of which I've corrected with my new 115 gallon setup. I believe some cyano hitchhiked on the rocks into my new tank - even though I brushed them off. However it has been growing too, just not as quick as the diatoms.

I am not arguing the affectiveness of scrubbers by any means... I love them. I'm just trying to figure out what else I need to do to clean up/'pretty-fy' my DT, and protect my current frags from getting covered with cyano and/or diatoms. My new tank cycled for about 6-7 weeks, and I've had livestock in it for about 5 weeks with very low nitrates and phosphates.

1) Protiens? - I know skimmers operate at the beginning of the nitrification cycle, in comparison to the scrubber working at the end of the cycle. Does anyone notice 'thick' water? Do you notice this contributes to any problems? Say Cyano or Diatoms?.. I guess what I'm getting at is: that maybe there are extra untested nutrients in the water?

2) in addition to the 'thick' water - it's often slightly yellowed. If I throw a bag of carbon in my sump this helps clear it up. Do others have this issue? When I clean I thoroughly rinse the other still growing side until it all runs clear.

3) Does anyone with a scrubber still have to run GFO? My old (29 gal) tank was 2.5 years old... phosphates were always 'close enough' to 0, but never actually 0. Should I just run some GFO?

Considering all of this... any comments or suggestions?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

shorty , with a new system, or a move from one system to another, you're always going to have a cycle, whether that is detectable or not. There is a die-off and recolonization of bacterial and periphyton (sponges, etc) whenever you move rocks or change flow. So what you are seeing is in many cases unavoidable. Time will balance things out. I wish I could say "your scrubber will fix it" but that's just not necessarily true. Maintaining consistent water parameters (alk cal mag, etc) is what is critical to stability long term. Algae/cyano in the tank seem to take advantage of instability.

The yellowing of the water is typically a result of not cleaning the screen early enough - the roots/base of the algae mat starts to die, and then releases it's stored nutrients into the water.

I've been running one of 3 different versions of scrubbers for over 2 years now and no yellow water in sight - and I just did a PWC a few weeks back (first in a year) and the water was crystal clear in a white bucket. Poured it in the toilet and it looked as if I had just flushed - clear. So that tells me that something might be missing in your construction or maintenance of the scrubber.

Instead of running GFO, you might want to test your Potassium and dose that if it is too low. Salifert makes a good kit, easy to use, relatively accurate. Boost K and your algae growth can get better, P will drop (because the algae could be limited in growth by deficient K) and corals will like it as well. 390-410 is where you want it.

Some people are reporting that running a skimmer can actually contribute to scrubber growth, because the added CO2 and O2 just from the skimmer pump can aid in keeping Alk in range, as algae will suck all the CO2 out of the water then go after carbonate (or is it bicarbonate, my mind is not functioning today) which drops Alk faster than normal. Also you can run a skimmer pump (needlewheel) to feed the scrubber, or get air injected into the flow to the scrubber to help balance alk uptake (or rather to reduce it)

All that being said, there are some that ore of the school of thought that there should be some N and P available in the system. I have heard speakers state that they prefer to keep N around 10 and P around 0.02 actually. I don't know if I believe that or not, but I've heard it from more than one person.

 

[_shorty_]

Thanks Floyd!

I have been working at keeping parameters stable. Currently using manual Dosing methods and testing every 3-4 days. Been keeping calc at 500 and alk at 10.5. PH seems stable between 8.1 and 8.2

I have definitely noticed the uptake of bicarbonates with ATS style scrubber as i have to dose a lot more to keep alk in line than calc. In planning for the future, as my coral grows and I need to switch to some more automated Dosing method, I have considered the need for adding more CO2 back into the system either via skimmer or making the switch to a UAS style scrubber. However, I have also made the assumption that currently, my pH swing is probably a lot less drastic at night than most tanks due to the reverse light cycle on the scrubber plus the overall assumed lack of CO2. I need to test a few times with lights off just to see how much. I have also considered that low N and P levels might actually be healthy.. So Ive never been that concerned, other thn the cyano issue I'm having.

I clean one side of the screen every 7 days on average... I'll play with shorter cleaning cycles.

I will also check potassium! It my take ome time to get in a kit, but I think I read on this thread or advanced of omeone using potassium pills from the drug store?

thanks for your input!

Edit: in addition - I've been Dosing my alk with sachem reef buffer, which I've read can contribute to raised phosphates and therefor increased cyano. I was going to switch to baking soda and try that instead? I'm also increasing my cleaning crew by about 1000% tomorrow, which I'm hoping should help keep some of these diatoms at lest in check. Ordered from reef cleaners.net and it comes in tomorrow. Excited about that, cause there's no place round here to get cleaners.

 

[rrasco]

Update on mine. Here is one on a 105, I let it run for 3 or 4 weeks trying to get thicker growth, but this is all I got. Its more bubbly than hairy.



This one its on a 150 FOWLR. I think I installed it three weeks ago. Going to start cleaning it weekly now. Had lots of red in it.



Any suggestions for these?

 

[nanomania]

shorty , with a new system, or a move from one system to another, you're always going to have a cycle, whether that is detectable or not. There is a die-off and recolonization of bacterial and periphyton (sponges, etc) whenever you move rocks or change flow. So what you are seeing is in many cases unavoidable. Time will balance things out. I wish I could say "your scrubber will fix it" but that's just not necessarily true. Maintaining consistent water parameters (alk cal mag, etc) is what is critical to stability long term. Algae/cyano in the tank seem to take advantage of instability.

The yellowing of the water is typically a result of not cleaning the screen early enough - the roots/base of the algae mat starts to die, and then releases it's stored nutrients into the water.

I've been running one of 3 different versions of scrubbers for over 2 years now and no yellow water in sight - and I just did a PWC a few weeks back (first in a year) and the water was crystal clear in a white bucket. Poured it in the toilet and it looked as if I had just flushed - clear. So that tells me that something might be missing in your construction or maintenance of the scrubber.

Instead of running GFO, you might want to test your Potassium and dose that if it is too low. Salifert makes a good kit, easy to use, relatively accurate. Boost K and your algae growth can get better, P will drop (because the algae could be limited in growth by deficient K) and corals will like it as well. 390-410 is where you want it.

Some people are reporting that running a skimmer can actually contribute to scrubber growth, because the added CO2 and O2 just from the skimmer pump can aid in keeping Alk in range, as algae will suck all the CO2 out of the water then go after carbonate (or is it bicarbonate, my mind is not functioning today) which drops Alk faster than normal. Also you can run a skimmer pump (needlewheel) to feed the scrubber, or get air injected into the flow to the scrubber to help balance alk uptake (or rather to reduce it)

All that being said, there are some that ore of the school of thought that there should be some N and P available in the system. I have heard speakers state that they prefer to keep N around 10 and P around 0.02 actually. I don't know if I believe that or not, but I've heard it from more than one person.

how to add potassium? can i use potassium chloride? do you have a system that has no filteration xcpt ATS? like no gfo/carbon, no skimmer,no cheato, etc.??

 

[_shorty_]

yep i mis-spoke... Looking back at logs, my pH stays between 8.2 and 8.3. Just tested half way through night period, and it's still at about 8.2, or maybe just a tad under. Does pH in the ocean swing at night? You'd almost wonder how it doesn't...