Algae Scrubber Basics

[Coral C's]

Thank you for all the great info on here, I have now started an attempt at building my own ATS. Here is the link to the build so if anyone has any idea's or see's that I am doing something wrong please let me know.
Thanks
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1990868

 

[fppf]

That is not true, rated lamp life is not "until it burns out".
Most manufactures rate there bulbs until they hit a percent of initial output, say 50%. Hard part is every manufacture uses a different end point. I would be interested in seeing some par data, initial, 10 hours, 100 hours, 500 hours, 1000 hours. The output decline is typically not linear.

 

[salty joe]

I mentioned the given lifespan of a lamp, not "until it burns out" so I think it is true.


I'd like to see PAR data too. But like I mentioned earlier, I can't even get a spectral graph of the PlantMax T5s I bought.

 

[Tautog]

Hey everyone. I pm'd with SRUSSO the other night regarding the whole ATS thing. I am in the process of a new 75 build with a bean animal overflow and a 40 breeder for a sump. I will be transferring everything in my current tank which is a 90 sumpless system. I am intregiued by the whole ATS thing and would like to get a couple of answers on some issues im struggling with. How many of you have employed an ATS on a transfer like this and what type of negative effects are going to occur? Also one thing I have heard from quite a few people is that if your algae dies off, you can pretty much consider your tank finished. What's the opinion/verdict on that statement?

 

[Coral C's]

I am building a splash guard for the ATS I am building, I just found that I can not use silicone but does anyone know if I can use PVC primer and glue to attach the acrylic? I was told to use weld on but can't seem to find it other than on line and I am trying to avoid shipping.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

I am building a splash guard for the ATS I am building, I just found that I can not use silicone but does anyone know if I can use PVC primer and glue to attach the acrylic? I was told to use weld on but can't seem to find it other than on line and I am trying to avoid shipping.

Lowes carries some Locktite epoxy that "welds" acrylic together. I used it on my LED housing, tough stuff. Prob not as good as weld on but it works. Why cant you use silicon? PVC primer i wouldnt think would work as Acrylic isnt made of the same plastic material. But i have never tried it.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

Hey everyone. I pm'd with SRUSSO the other night regarding the whole ATS thing. I am in the process of a new 75 build with a bean animal overflow and a 40 breeder for a sump. I will be transferring everything in my current tank which is a 90 sumpless system. I am intregiued by the whole ATS thing and would like to get a couple of answers on some issues im struggling with. How many of you have employed an ATS on a transfer like this and what type of negative effects are going to occur? Also one thing I have heard from quite a few people is that if your algae dies off, you can pretty much consider your tank finished. What's the opinion/verdict on that statement?

When you say algae dies off i'm going to assume that you mean from the screen? It doesnt really mean that you are finished but that you need to raise some levels in your tank by excessively feeding a little. Algae likes things like ammonia, PO4 i think, and basically all the junk you want out of your tank.

I have started my screen over twice on my 300g tank and had no adverse effects. Some of the levels raised a little but not enough to be concerned, though my tank size could have helped with that. It would be best to start a scrubber on your other tank so that it has a little coverage and then move the screen to the next tank or at least run a skimmer till the algae takes off. It's been taking about a week or less for algae to show up on my screen's, but some have reported up to 19 weeks!! Crazy, i know. But thats why you dont want to cold turkey a tank till you are sure you have algae growing or know that your algae is taking off pretty soon.

 

[travis32]

Here's my build pics:
I ended up having to use my marineland submersable pump. It's rated at 350 - 475 GPH.

I installed a Ball valve (Was planning to for ease of servicing) and I'm glad I did. I have to reduce the flow so, it's not so strong. Almost flowed faster than the drain could handle. Everything looks good. One mistake I made is I cut the PVC for the canvas a little to close to the PVC elbow joint. Where it sits on top of the acryllic enclosure, it wouldn't take much for water to come out the side. I'll probably fill that in a little with aquarium silicone.

The canvas and flow look good and fit good in the box otherwise.

Without further ado, build pics.

This the 1inch barbed flex hose connector for the overflow or return pump:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9717815452.jpg


Test fitting the acryllic box and pvc, left the protective covering on for this:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9717828104.jpg

Test fitting a light fixture with the box:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9717853744.jpg

Another test fit shot:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9717939320.jpg

Drain plug, instead of an elbow though, I got just a threaded straight up / down connector for inside the box. So slightly different, but I drilled out the hole myself so was testing the drain out:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9732591211.jpg

Acryllic / drain shot:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9732639519.jpg


Assembled and operational closeup:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9785442849.jpg

Pump hose to the ATS (got extra length curled up on my ATO bucket, just in case, hose was $15.00):
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9785482155.jpg

ATS pump is on the bottom left reactor pump is bottom right:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9785489778.jpg

Closeup:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9785514426.jpg

Fully assembled:
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...9785428575.jpg


I was gone for 3 days after building and having it run overnight one night. In 3 days the canvas screen is covered in green algae. I'll post pics of that tomorrow.

I have one major set back though. I got back and the floor around the tank is soaked. (I had someone checking the tank for me while I was gone.) but, I think I identified the culprit.

I cut the slit for the canvas too close to the pvc Elbow I'm using. I filled it in with plumbers putty.

It looked like the water was following the plumbers putty back out of the acrilic enclosure. I rotated the pipe a little bit, scooted it onto the acrylic box more, and moved the box slightly. I dried the side off that looked like it was wet from dripping.

I then, placed a paper towell next to the area it looked like it was dripping for 2 purposes. To absorb the water as it drips, and to detect if any leakage is still occuring.

I may end up having to redo the PVC build I did. Shouldn't be too hard. Everything is working great otherwise.

So, what does it mean if the canvas is green in 3 days? Will it be able to outperform the growth in the tank?

What if the growth on the canvas grows great, but the algae in the tank continues to grow?

 

[Coral C's]

Silicone isn't holding and I was told over time it will not hold up at all. If I can't find the weld on locally I will go back to Lowes to see if I can find the locktite epoxy

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

Silicone isn't holding and I was told over time it will not hold up at all. If I can't find the weld on locally I will go back to Lowes to see if I can find the locktite epoxy

Lowes sells a Silicon adhesive, that should work well depending on how much abuse you want it to handle. When you use silicon, you have to rough up the surface with some 220 grit sand paper so it has a nice surface to grip onto. Bit i personally would, if anything, try the locktite as i havent tried the silicon adhesive. The Locktite is called Plastic Bonder. Its wrapped in a maroon plastic. Here it is near the paints/stains

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Hey everyone. I pm'd with SRUSSO the other night regarding the whole ATS thing. I am in the process of a new 75 build with a bean animal overflow and a 40 breeder for a sump. I will be transferring everything in my current tank which is a 90 sumpless system. I am intregiued by the whole ATS thing and would like to get a couple of answers on some issues im struggling with. How many of you have employed an ATS on a transfer like this and what type of negative effects are going to occur? Also one thing I have heard from quite a few people is that if your algae dies off, you can pretty much consider your tank finished. What's the opinion/verdict on that statement?

I guess it depends on the type of filtration system you're using now. With no sump, are you relying on a HOB skimmer/refugium, or just tons of LR and an HOB filter?

Regarding algae die-off, what type of die-off are you referring to? If you are referring to die-off as a result of a power outage, your tank will be toast from O2 depletion before your algae screen will die from lack of water. If you're talking about the algae on the screen dying, that can only happen if you forget to feed and/or turn the lights on. I suppose there is another way, like dipping it in bleach or something

I am building a splash guard for the ATS I am building, I just found that I can not use silicone but does anyone know if I can use PVC primer and glue to attach the acrylic? I was told to use weld on but can't seem to find it other than on line and I am trying to avoid shipping.

silicone won't bond acrylic. You need to get weld-on 16, it's gel-like and fills in imperfections better. Weld-on 3 will work too, but it's very runny and you need perfectly square and even cuts. If you're just trying to make a splashguard, 16 will work fine. If you're trying to make a watertight enclosure (one that will hold water, like a box) then you need clean edges too and either will work.

Silicone isn't holding and I was told over time it will not hold up at all. If I can't find the weld on locally I will go back to Lowes to see if I can find the locktite epoxy

Never tried the loctite epoxy. Might try searching for a local acrylic supplier. Mine carries weld-on 16.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

Floyd, isnt it the silicon sealant that doesnt hold up well? I thought the adhesive did really well from what i read. though i have never tried it. But yeah, it doesnt BOND acrylic, but it can still make it water tight but you have to be careful with how much abuse you give it.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

It will probably make it watertight and may suffice as a shield as long as your intention is not to create a box that will hold water, because that will fail. Silicone caulk for sealing a glass aquarium acts like glue, so there is a bond formed. This same bond does not form with acrylic. Acrylic is bonded by the welding process. Acrylic held together by silicone and then placed under pressure (i.e. weight at a perpendicular torsion of a joint) may or may not hold over time. Leaning towards not. It will just tear away, and not slowly, it would likely happen all at once (catastrophic failure of joint)

 

[salty joe]

I am building a splash guard for the ATS I am building, I just found that I can not use silicone but does anyone know if I can use PVC primer and glue to attach the acrylic? I was told to use weld on but can't seem to find it other than on line and I am trying to avoid shipping.

If it does not need to be waterproof, you can use silicone. Drill matching holes in both pieces of acrylic and force silicone through the holes and let the silicone droop out of the holes. When it cures, it's kind of like having it bolted together. I'd also give the acrylic some tooth by roughing it up with course sandpaper. Forget PVC glue. HTH.

 

[trueperc]

I am about set up my two ats, one for a 210 and one for a 150 frag tank. This may have been brought up before but it concerns the light lifespan that was discussed earlier. Has anyone thought of or used the leds bulbs you can buy as lowes or homedepot? Would they not work just as well or better, exspecially since the idea is that the lifespan would be that much better. I know they have them in the kalvin rating we want.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

I am about set up my two ats, one for a 210 and one for a 150 frag tank. This may have been brought up before but it concerns the light lifespan that was discussed earlier. Has anyone thought of or used the leds bulbs you can buy as lowes or homedepot? Would they not work just as well or better, exspecially since the idea is that the lifespan would be that much better. I know they have them in the kalvin rating we want.

Using LEDs to mee, seems to be a grey area. No one really knows so someone is going to have to take the financial plunge and try it. I would do it but i currently have enough going on as it is.

Going to build another 300g marine plywood tank, LED lighting, algae scrubber, clam breeding, school, business. Once i knock off some of these then i was going to atempt it.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

There have been several that have tried LED but results seem to indicate something is missing. T5HO and CFL produce a wide spectrum of light, LED produce a very narrow bandwidth. So CFL and T5HO cover all the spectra the algae grow under, and LEDs do not. Human perception of the difference is noticeable, but color rendering is all that matter to our eyes. It is totally different for algae. So the short answer is don't buy LED lights from Lowes, your algae growth will be negligible.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

There have been several that have tried LED but results seem to indicate something is missing. T5HO and CFL produce a wide spectrum of light, LED produce a very narrow bandwidth. So CFL and T5HO cover all the spectra the algae grow under, and LEDs do not. Human perception of the difference is noticeable, but color rendering is all that matter to our eyes. It is totally different for algae. So the short answer is don't buy LED lights from Lowes, your algae growth will be negligible.

I would suggest prob checking into what kind of LEDs are used in the LED bulb first before recommending not trying it. All the ones that i have seen using LEDs are using the cheap 5mm or 10mm LEDs. Though if i remember correctly, back within the first 10 pages, someone posted a red and blue LED setup that had some success. Maybe it would be better if it were more intense (using the CREE leds that we currently use for corals) or adding some other colors to it. I'm sure the answer to "whats missing" is out there. I just havent had time to look for it. I too though doubt that the Lowes bulb will help, but setting up a little test screen wouldnt hurt and if it doesnt work, you can use the bulb in the house somewhere.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

speak of the devil:

http://en.phyco.org/wiki/Algal_Light_Requirements

but according to this makes me wonder why our 2700k bulbs seem to grow better than 6500k daylights. Though i had pretty good success with 6500k daylight CFL's.

 

[dogstar74]

Travis32,

I would love to see you're pics, but you need to insert them with an image tag. Here's how to get them to be seen.

[img ]http:thelinkgoesheredotcom[ /img]

Just remove the spaces within the brackets.

Hope this helps.
Aaron