Chris Abbott
New member
Wouldn't running things off the manifold also reduce overall flow through the system? Supplying the scrubber from overflow gives it first shot at nutrients and eliminates any additional work for your main pump.
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
MitchSutherland
Member
Hi I was wondering if anyone feeds their fish with the algae?(I got alot of tangs) I figured nitrate filled algae would not be very healthy for the fish.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Yes some people do this, nothing wrong with it.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Big bubbles move the algae around more rapidly. It's not about the bubbles it's about the water movement the bubbles create. So offhand I would say no.
kegogut
Active member
wow thanks for the info Floyd. I really appreciate it. I made a splash guard today while bored at work.
Its 22x12. and sits 10" above the water lvl in my sump I made it thinking the screen I would need would be somewhat bigger than what you recommended. I can definitely fit a 48 square inch screen in my splash guard. Once my No3 hits 0 I may increase my feeding. Does that mean I will need to increase my screen size accordingly? And if so would I be ok to make a large screen now to save time/money later?
Again thanks for the info your providing.
Its 22x12. and sits 10" above the water lvl in my sump I made it thinking the screen I would need would be somewhat bigger than what you recommended. I can definitely fit a 48 square inch screen in my splash guard. Once my No3 hits 0 I may increase my feeding. Does that mean I will need to increase my screen size accordingly? And if so would I be ok to make a large screen now to save time/money later?
Again thanks for the info your providing.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
You can just rough up the area that you intend to be "active" and then leave a un-roughed section below that, extending to 1" below the water. Or you can attach another screen with zipties, fishing line, etc.
You can also make a bigger screen and use less overall light, in essence, the screen capacity would be limited by the lighting available. Sort of like de-rating the screen. then if you up the feeding you can up the lighting and flow and get more growth out of it without needing to change the slot pipe and screen out. You might get some strange or less effective growth by doing it that way though, but nothing that is going to cause harm.
Also you could make a screen that is half as wide as it "could" be, then when you want to up the capacity of the scrubber, you cut a new slot pipe and out another screen next to the old one. Or you make a new screen and cut the old one into strips and zip-tie it on to cure up the new screen (that works very well).
So you have many options. I would start with a narrower screen to fit your situation now and then do the new slot/screen when you need it. JMO
You can also make a bigger screen and use less overall light, in essence, the screen capacity would be limited by the lighting available. Sort of like de-rating the screen. then if you up the feeding you can up the lighting and flow and get more growth out of it without needing to change the slot pipe and screen out. You might get some strange or less effective growth by doing it that way though, but nothing that is going to cause harm.
Also you could make a screen that is half as wide as it "could" be, then when you want to up the capacity of the scrubber, you cut a new slot pipe and out another screen next to the old one. Or you make a new screen and cut the old one into strips and zip-tie it on to cure up the new screen (that works very well).
So you have many options. I would start with a narrower screen to fit your situation now and then do the new slot/screen when you need it. JMO
kegogut
Active member
So I think I'll do a 48 square inch active section and leave enough screen to hang into the water. If I increase my feeding then I'll increase the size of the active section. That way I'll be able to let it hang in the water to decrease the splash.
Again,thanks for the help and quick responses. Its greatly appreciated!
Again,thanks for the help and quick responses. Its greatly appreciated!
Chris Abbott
New member
I would definatly make the screen go into water. Reduces noise and splash a bunch.
Rybren
Well-known member
My 5"x8" DIY HOG scrubber has been up and running for almost 2 months. For the first month, it was lit by 2x6500K and 1xRB LED. For the second month, it has been lit by 8 x 660nm LEDs. The lights are on for 12hrs and I had a diffuser on it for the 1st 2 weeks with the reds.
I'm getting some HA growth on the tank glass, but only a light brown slime on the scrubber. I'm still getting some HA growth in the DT, and lots of chaeto growth in the fuge. I'm dosing 25ml of vinegar per day for ~100G total water volume. I also brought a 20G cryptic fuge online at the same time as the scrubber. I feed the equivalent of 2 cubes per day.
I'm wondering if I should just give it more time. Should I give the scrubber a thorough scrub under FW?
Thx
I'm getting some HA growth on the tank glass, but only a light brown slime on the scrubber. I'm still getting some HA growth in the DT, and lots of chaeto growth in the fuge. I'm dosing 25ml of vinegar per day for ~100G total water volume. I also brought a 20G cryptic fuge online at the same time as the scrubber. I feed the equivalent of 2 cubes per day.
I'm wondering if I should just give it more time. Should I give the scrubber a thorough scrub under FW?
Thx
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
The only reason to scrub a screen thoroughly is if it has a ton of red turf growth on it and no GHA. If it has slime or yellow spongy growth, just scrape this off and rub with fingertips under running water. You rarely want to remove all growth with a vigorous scrubbing because that basically means you have to restart the maturing process.
from what i've seen from other's results posted, UASs seem to take longer to mature sometimes. Sometimes they grow quick, other times takes months. I see the problem of growing nothing but slime more than anything. SM's advice for this has been to remove all the slime growth with a brush as this slime is preventing GHA from attaching, so I suppose you can try that.
Are you using a plastic canvas screen for your UAS or bonded quartz?
from what i've seen from other's results posted, UASs seem to take longer to mature sometimes. Sometimes they grow quick, other times takes months. I see the problem of growing nothing but slime more than anything. SM's advice for this has been to remove all the slime growth with a brush as this slime is preventing GHA from attaching, so I suppose you can try that.
Are you using a plastic canvas screen for your UAS or bonded quartz?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
While plastic canvas is the go-to material for a waterfall scrubber, it does not appear that this is the ideal material for UASs. The two scrubber types, while performing the same basic function, are otherwise nearly completely different animals. The bonded-on quartz rock/gravel seems to be the more appropriate material for a submerged scrubber.
My UAS took for-e-ver to mature on a plastic canvas screen, and even now over a year later (maybe it's been 2 or 3 years even) I can pull the screen out and pull nearly every bit of algae off it with a few swipes of my palm and some finger-pickin, meanwhile my waterfall scrubbers with 6 month old or 3 year old screens require a scraper and some elbow grease on top of that.
Even using crushed coral or aragonite bonded on to the inside part with epoxy or whatever SM recommends (Devcon somethingorother) would be better than the plastic canvas. PC can work but it takes a long time to get it rollin along IMO.
My UAS took for-e-ver to mature on a plastic canvas screen, and even now over a year later (maybe it's been 2 or 3 years even) I can pull the screen out and pull nearly every bit of algae off it with a few swipes of my palm and some finger-pickin, meanwhile my waterfall scrubbers with 6 month old or 3 year old screens require a scraper and some elbow grease on top of that.
Even using crushed coral or aragonite bonded on to the inside part with epoxy or whatever SM recommends (Devcon somethingorother) would be better than the plastic canvas. PC can work but it takes a long time to get it rollin along IMO.
Rybren
Well-known member
Thanks. I'll give mine a bit longer then if it doesn't improve, I'll look at swapping out the plastic for the gravel.
Steve: I just looked at SM's videos and others on youtube then went at it. If I had more room, I would have gone with the waterfall style rather than the upflow.
Steve: I just looked at SM's videos and others on youtube then went at it. If I had more room, I would have gone with the waterfall style rather than the upflow.
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Quite the opposite. Algae convert the nitrogen in nitrate to healty greens. The whole ocean and every lake is fed that way. And if you set your tank up right, you won't have to feed it again.
Must have bubbles, but I don't know if a venturi will be enough. The bubble enable the metabolite transfer in and out of the algae. Without bubbles the growth is very slow.
Yes all the slime must be toothbrushed off before GHA can attach.
Joey's video is about as good as any for a simple setup; just consider using rock/sand and epoxy instead of a screen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGLnBvDkaO0
SantaMonica:
I cant open the video, it says there's an authentication problems.
The venturi I referred to is the one that produces the bubbles for a Tunze 9002 skimmer, that should be plenty of bubbles right?
Wouldn't using rock make it harder to clean?
Is there any way of running a waterfall in the rear chambers?
I cant open the video, it says there's an authentication problems.
The venturi I referred to is the one that produces the bubbles for a Tunze 9002 skimmer, that should be plenty of bubbles right?
Wouldn't using rock make it harder to clean?
Is there any way of running a waterfall in the rear chambers?
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
The video is public youtube so that is a problem on your end.
Small bubbles do not create rapid flow because they don't move fast. It's not the bubbles, it's the motion they create that matters. Large bubbles move water fast. That's what you want.
Using rock does make it harder to clean, but you don't really ever want to totally "clean" a scrubber. You remove the growth and leave whatever it there for re-growth.
You can do a waterfall in a rear chamber but it's going to be one-sided unless you put a low-power waterproof LED panel on the other side (low power because it will be extremely close to the screen). Also tricky to do the slot pipe method in a biocube (I assume that is what you are referring to)
Small bubbles do not create rapid flow because they don't move fast. It's not the bubbles, it's the motion they create that matters. Large bubbles move water fast. That's what you want.
Using rock does make it harder to clean, but you don't really ever want to totally "clean" a scrubber. You remove the growth and leave whatever it there for re-growth.
You can do a waterfall in a rear chamber but it's going to be one-sided unless you put a low-power waterproof LED panel on the other side (low power because it will be extremely close to the screen). Also tricky to do the slot pipe method in a biocube (I assume that is what you are referring to)
spamreefnew
New member
Hey floyd, does anyone still use T-5's for scrubbing? I was thinking of building a 24" long and skinny scrubber (like sm100) and using some HO T-5 tubes. I know many think that the LED's work best but I can get the T-5's so darn cheap its very tempting!
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
T5HOs do work well in comparison to other fluorescent sources like CFLs, but you still need to replace lamps every 3-4 months and there is a maximum "throughput" you can get out of them. What I mean by that is that you can have a certain intensity that you can get, and you can't get past that. You can use top shelf reflectors, but those have a width requirement, and cramming the lamps closer cuts off reflection off the back of the lamps so you end up with diminishing returns as you move the lamps closer. Once you reach the maximum output point, then you are limited by photoperiod, and then your total light-energy per day is maxed at 24/7 operation.
LED on the other hand have a much better efficiency in terms of the output of useable light energy. Sometimes too much, at least at first. It is rather easy to find an LED fixture that will outperform T5HO in terms of intensity (rate) that you can cause photosaturation and get zero growth on a new screen. So you have to do things like splitting up the photoperiod, using a diffuser, dimming the fixture, or using only part of it, at least until the screen matures.
Then, depending on the system and scrubber, you can start ramping up the lighting and photoperiod. With LED you can get a much more intense output, which means (in many cases) that you can run a shorter photoperiod and get the same results as a T5HO runnning 18+ hrs/day. What that also means is that while your T5HO scrubber might be limited by hours in the day, your LED scrubber equivalent is not, at least not as much.
For instance, you could build a scrubber using the Expressions LTD LED strip light, which has a similar useable light signature compared to a T5HO (a 24" T5HO lamp has about 18" of useable linear light, the output near the ends of the lamps drops off sharply) and you could use one of these in place of a 2-lamp T5HO fixture. But, where you could only fit a 2 or maybe 3 lamp T5HO fixture in a given space, you can cram 4 of the Expressions strips in the same place, which is more equivalent to the output of 8 lamps.
These numbers I'm throwing out here are not proven and calculated by me, I'm just throwing that out there as an example to paint the picture of why it is wise to consider LED over T5HO, because there are many reasons outside of sheer price of lamps vs price of LED fixtures.
LED on the other hand have a much better efficiency in terms of the output of useable light energy. Sometimes too much, at least at first. It is rather easy to find an LED fixture that will outperform T5HO in terms of intensity (rate) that you can cause photosaturation and get zero growth on a new screen. So you have to do things like splitting up the photoperiod, using a diffuser, dimming the fixture, or using only part of it, at least until the screen matures.
Then, depending on the system and scrubber, you can start ramping up the lighting and photoperiod. With LED you can get a much more intense output, which means (in many cases) that you can run a shorter photoperiod and get the same results as a T5HO runnning 18+ hrs/day. What that also means is that while your T5HO scrubber might be limited by hours in the day, your LED scrubber equivalent is not, at least not as much.
For instance, you could build a scrubber using the Expressions LTD LED strip light, which has a similar useable light signature compared to a T5HO (a 24" T5HO lamp has about 18" of useable linear light, the output near the ends of the lamps drops off sharply) and you could use one of these in place of a 2-lamp T5HO fixture. But, where you could only fit a 2 or maybe 3 lamp T5HO fixture in a given space, you can cram 4 of the Expressions strips in the same place, which is more equivalent to the output of 8 lamps.
These numbers I'm throwing out here are not proven and calculated by me, I'm just throwing that out there as an example to paint the picture of why it is wise to consider LED over T5HO, because there are many reasons outside of sheer price of lamps vs price of LED fixtures.
