Algae Scrubber Basics

I'm starting to get more spongy yellow growth on my screen now as my nutrients drop from the carbon dosing that is still increasing (up to 12ml a day of vodka now).

This is an indication/verification of what you are seeing - nutrients dropping. The yellow growth generally will not harm your system, but you don't "need" that type of growth.

Yellow spongey growth means not enough nutrients delivered compared to the light delivered.

1) increase flow, leave light and feeding the same.

This has the effect of continuing to filter at the same rate, and if the setup has proved to be aggressive filtration, then this is only a temporary remedy, as this will create a new "set point", the screen may grow more GHA for a while, but eventually, the same situation will occur. Maybe not as much yellow, but still some.

2) decrease light (photoperiod, preferably), leave flow and feeding the same.

Decreasing the light reduces the algae's uptake ability so this will actually reduce your filtration set point a bit. If the filtration is aggressive, this may not be a problem. Usually I recommend reducing the photoperiod but you can instead reduce the intensity (and run the same photoperiod). But that can be somewhat dependent on the light fixture and/or source. Decreasing the intensity too much can result in not enough light for the GHA to thrive, resulting in darker growth, so you have to be careful here. If you have found a light level that grows GHA well, leave it there and adjust the photoperiod

3) increase feeding, leave light and flow the same.

Has the effect of raising the nutrient level to match the flow/light. Obviously, increasing feeding adjusts the "set point" upward. Of course...

...I don't want to increase feedings should I simply begin to reduce the lighting time period on the ats to maintain healthy green growth or what?

which takes #3 out.

I would reduce lighting time, back it off by a few hours and let it grow for a while to see how it responds.

The carbon dosing can cause a shift in scrubber growth, and not all forms of dosing are the same. From what I've seen/heard, BP works better in conjunction with a scrubber when compared to vodka/vinegar dosing. I've seen opinions that combining carbon dosing and an algae scrubber is bad, but I've also seen examples where it works quite well - nutrients are low, and algae grows crazy fast. I think the key is a short, high-intensity photoperiod on the scrubber.

IMO if you do any carbon dosing while running a scrubber, you need to be very careful - start with small amounts and keep it consistent for a good amount of time, and make only small adjustments. Doing too many things too fast can cause problems down the road. The key to almost all successful reefkeeping methods is stability.
 
I have set up my ATS, it's in a 35 gallon tank all by itself, how long do I wait to determine if I did a good or bad job and need to modify? It's been running since Sunday, but made some changes last night. Should I see any signs of algae yet? Because I'm not so I can make more modifications ...

The general rule of thumb here is to just let to grow without touching it for a good 2 weeks. If anything at around day 7, just take the screen out and swipe off any growth with the palm of your hand, give it a swish in a pan of tank water, and put it back in. You can do that every 7 days for the first month if you want, don't scrape or anything.

a few ?'s

waterfall or UAS?

CFL or LED?

How many hours/day of light?

How much are you feeding?

How big is the scrubber?
 
This is an indication/verification of what you are seeing - nutrients dropping. The yellow growth generally will not harm your system, but you don't "need" that type of growth.

Yellow spongey growth means not enough nutrients delivered compared to the light delivered.

1) increase flow, leave light and feeding the same.

This has the effect of continuing to filter at the same rate, and if the setup has proved to be aggressive filtration, then this is only a temporary remedy, as this will create a new "set point", the screen may grow more GHA for a while, but eventually, the same situation will occur. Maybe not as much yellow, but still some.

2) decrease light (photoperiod, preferably), leave flow and feeding the same.

Decreasing the light reduces the algae's uptake ability so this will actually reduce your filtration set point a bit. If the filtration is aggressive, this may not be a problem. Usually I recommend reducing the photoperiod but you can instead reduce the intensity (and run the same photoperiod). But that can be somewhat dependent on the light fixture and/or source. Decreasing the intensity too much can result in not enough light for the GHA to thrive, resulting in darker growth, so you have to be careful here. If you have found a light level that grows GHA well, leave it there and adjust the photoperiod

3) increase feeding, leave light and flow the same.

Has the effect of raising the nutrient level to match the flow/light. Obviously, increasing feeding adjusts the "set point" upward. Of course...



which takes #3 out.

I would reduce lighting time, back it off by a few hours and let it grow for a while to see how it responds.

The carbon dosing can cause a shift in scrubber growth, and not all forms of dosing are the same. From what I've seen/heard, BP works better in conjunction with a scrubber when compared to vodka/vinegar dosing. I've seen opinions that combining carbon dosing and an algae scrubber is bad, but I've also seen examples where it works quite well - nutrients are low, and algae grows crazy fast. I think the key is a short, high-intensity photoperiod on the scrubber.

IMO if you do any carbon dosing while running a scrubber, you need to be very careful - start with small amounts and keep it consistent for a good amount of time, and make only small adjustments. Doing too many things too fast can cause problems down the road. The key to almost all successful reefkeeping methods is stability.
Ok. Thanks.


Too late for the going slow on Carbon dosing suggestion as I started at 0.9ml on Oct 28 and today Dec 16th I'm over 12ml. So I've upped it 11+ml in about month and half.

I'm getting ready to slow it down a bit now that I'm seeing the lower nutrients effect the scrubber growth and I'm starting to see some effects on the LPS (not as happy as they once were - the sps seem super healthy tho).
 
I wrote a month or two ago because my system was crashing. You wanted me to fix the problem and not rely on the ATS to fix what might be wrong. It was good advice. I had a 75g tank in the system that was full of rock and it turns out was probably a nitrate factory. I pulled that out and completely emptied and cleaned it. I had a 35 g tank in the system that started as a species tank. Well, I also emptied it, cleaned it and it now houses the ATS. Both had horrible stinky detritus in them so it was the right thing to do. I have a 55l that is the next tank targeted for clean up and I'm going to start using filter socks.

It's a waterfall, using two big LED spots, each on a sheet that's 13x22 but a bit got cut off of the top and at least 4 inches is under water. I need to do one last change and it should be perfect. I'm using a maxijet 1200 to feed it. The tank it is being fed out of gets filled by the protein skimmer - is that ok?
 
Using the effluent from the skimmer should work good, that's aerated water so that will help keep dissolved gases at a good level for the algae and the tank.

The MJ1200 does not have a very good head pressure response, so I would use a different pump. I flow tested the MJ1200 (Cobalt version) against a Rio 1100 and the initial flow rate across a 6" wide screen at 12" of vertical head was around 230 for the Rio, and 195 for the MJ1200. So initially they look good, but the problem is it is just not that powerful of a pump and IMO not good for much besides an in-tank PH or a reactor feed pump. I also tested an Eheim Compact 1000 which also have about 200 GPH initial head, but after running a scrubber for 2-3 months that same pump flow rate had dropped to 60 GPH.

For a 13" wide screen, you want 13x35=450ish GPH of flow, but you could probably get away with less, but I wouldn't go lower than 20 GPH which would still be in the 250GPH+ range, and that's a Rio 1400 or equivalent. The 450 GPH range puts you way up into a Rio 2100 or better, Mag 5, etc. The head loss chart for a Rio 2100 at 3' heat is 472 so that's about right. I use 3' of head for scrubbers, this assumes a 12" vertical level difference (between sump water and slot pipe centerline) and 2' of head backpressure for the slot pipe (which seems to be pretty consistent across various slot lengths).
 
Ah, ok, I think I have a mag 5 here but don't know if it's functional. Let me get a better pump on it. I also need to fix the slot on the pipes and get some shower curtain hangers to keep the screen on -- my husband's idea and I think it's a good one! Thanks for your help!
 
I use a piece of PVC coupler of the same size pipe, cut off a thin ring with a hacksaw, and clip a 1/4" opening in it with a wire cutters and round off the cut edge with sandpaper. Snap this around your pipe and you can rotate it easily for screen removal and it holds the screen very nicely.
 
I use a piece of PVC coupler of the same size pipe, cut off a thin ring with a hacksaw, and clip a 1/4" opening in it with a wire cutters and round off the cut edge with sandpaper. Snap this around your pipe and you can rotate it easily for screen removal and it holds the screen very nicely.

Similarly, I used a thin ring of 1" PVC pipe to hold the screen on my 3/4" ATS. With a 1/4" section cut out of the ring, it has enough flex to fit just fine.
 
Well, got the dremel fitted up, cut the pipe, put the mag 5 on, all together and running ... the tank is cracked by the bulkhead. Just a lucky person I guess...
 
Have you seen that Cree now finally has a 660 nm LED? It's in the XP-E family and is called "Photo red". Perfect for future algae scrubbers! :-)
 
I actually have 2 spot lights that have red LED's but I don't know if they are Cree.

So I got a new tank, got it drilled and have the ATS running now with the mag 5 pump. However, the water is only going across half of the second sheet -- the one furthest away from the water inlet. Not sure what happened as it was fine before. Any suggestions?
 
Ok, here is my situation. I just removed my rocks and redid my whole tank with new tonga branch. After a few weeks, the hair algae is back! I'm absolutely sick of it. Currently, I have an algae blenny and a yellow eye kole tank in TT and hopefully they will help control it.

I have always wanted an ATS and I think it's time to get one. My tank has tested 0 nitrates due to a ceramic block which is leading to dentrification. I just pulled the block because my sps corals are all pale leading me to believe that the corals are starving. I want a bit of nitrate in my tank so my sps can color up. My phosphates are high and I am currently running gfo. I tested with a Hanna meter a week ago and they are at 0.24ppm. Will using an ATS lower my phosphates, kill the hair algae on my rocks, and leave a little nitrate in the tank? If so, then I'm all for it! Thanks guys!
 
Yes. If you do it right.

First decide how much room you have and where, how much you are going to feed, and if you want a waterfall, horizontal river, or upflow scrubber. This also might help:

The basic guidelines for algae scrubbers is based on how much you feed each day: 1 cube a day, 2 cubes a day, etc. However these are just starting points; a lot of your tank filtering is based on your rocks, so their condition plays a part too in what size scrubbers to get or make, as well as what type of feeding you are doing, and what other filters you will be using. This calculator is the starting point:

https://public.sheet.zoho.com/public/cdm2013/ascalculator-xls-1

Your rocks can supply much more "feeding" to your water that the actual food you put in, because rocks absorb phosphate, and once the rocks are "full" they will put this phosphate back into your water, adding to the phosphate that you are feeding. Generally, each 50 pounds (23 kg) of problem rock adds another 1 cube to the feeding amounts. So if you feed 2 cubes a day, but have 150 pounds of problem rock with nuisance algae, then you would size your scrubber for 5 cubes a day.

Here is a description:

Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL waterfall (such as the one I designed in 2008) or VERTICAL upflow (such as the one I designed in 2011) screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real watts (not equivalent watts) of fluorescent light for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If 6 watts are on each side, it is a 2-sided screen, but the total is still 12 watts for 18 hours a day. This screen size and wattage should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

High-wattage technique: Double the wattage, and cut the hours in half (to 9 per day). This will get brown screens to grow green much faster, because darker growth needs more light. Thus the example above would be 12 watts on each side, for a total of 24 watts, but for only 9 hours per day. If growth starts to turn YELLOW or CLEAR, then increase the flow, or add iron, or reduce the number of hours. And since the bulbs are operating for 9 hours instead of 18, they will last 6 months instead of 3 months.

HORIZONTAL screens: Multiply the screen size by 4, and the wattage by 1 1/2. Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH RIBBONS: Screen size is the size of the box (Length X Width), and is 2-sided because the ribbons grow in 3D.

LEDs: Use half the wattage as above. 660nm (red) is best. You can mix in a little 450nm (blue) if you want.

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas, unless floating surface, which would use gravel and strings instead.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 14 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise


The above sizing guidelines need to be modified in certain situations:

1) If you are building a reef tank which is new, meaning that the rocks are coming from the ocean or from a low-nutrient tank with no algae problems, and if you will just be feeding the fish sparingly, and if you DO want to have other filters and water changes, then you can just use the cube-feeding recommended sizes of the scrubbers described above.

2) If you are building a reef tank which is new as in #1 above, but you DON'T want any other filters or water changes, then double the recommended scrubbing amount in #1, and do it with at least two separate scrubbers This will supply the corals and small fish with the most amounts of food particles and filtering at the critical time when you clean one scrubber You don't need to start the tank with all the scrubbers; one is fine for a few months, and add the others later.

3) If you are building a reef tank which is new as in #1 or #2 above, but the rocks are coming from a nutrient-problem tank which had measurable phosphate or hair algae problems, then the rocks will be soaked with phosphate and this will supply more phosphate to your new tank than the feeding will. So be sure to include this rock when determining the needed scrubbing amount.

4) If you are adding a scrubber to an existing reef tank, and the tank has no measurable phosphate and no nuisance algae, and if you have other filters and water changes and you DO want to keep them, then you can just use the cube-feeding size described above.

5) If you are adding a scrubber to an existing reef tank as in #4 above but you DON'T want to continue using the other filters or water changes, then double the scrubber amount recommend in #4, preferrably with an additional scrubber. This will keep filtering going in one when you clean the other.

6) If you are adding a scrubber to an existing reef tank that has measurable phosphate and green hair nuisance algae on the rocks, and you DO want to continue using other filters and water changes, then you can just use the recommended cube-feeding sizes of the scrubbers. Use stronger scrubber light if possible because the higher phosphate in the water needs brighter light to make the scrubber grow green. And if you double the amount of scrubbing (two scrubbers instead of one), the problems will clear up twice as fast because there will be twice the amount of algae absorbing the nutrients out of the water.

7) If you are adding a scrubber to an existing reef tank that has measurable phosphate and green hair nuisance algae on the rocks as in #6 above, and you DON'T want to continue using other filters and water changes, then double the amount of scrubbing recommended in #6.

8) If you are adding a scrubber to an existing reef tank that has NO measurable phosphate, but has LOTS of green hair nuisance algae on the rocks, then you need the strongest lights possible (for your scrubber size) because the rocks are already full of phosphate, and the algae on the rocks is absorbing this phosphate, meaning you need the strongest scrubbing possible in order to out-compete the algae on the rocks. This is the hardest situation to fix, so you should use as much scrubbing as possible with the strongest light available (for the scrubber size), and use as many other filters and water changes as possible too, until the algae on the rocks turns yellow and lets go. At this point coralline will start to cover the rocks, and you could consider selling some of the extra scrubbers, or removing the other filters or water changes.

End
 
Ok, here is my situation. I just removed my rocks and redid my whole tank with new tonga branch. After a few weeks, the hair algae is back! I'm absolutely sick of it. Currently, I have an algae blenny and a yellow eye kole tank in TT and hopefully they will help control it.

I have always wanted an ATS and I think it's time to get one. My tank has tested 0 nitrates due to a ceramic block which is leading to dentrification. I just pulled the block because my sps corals are all pale leading me to believe that the corals are starving. I want a bit of nitrate in my tank so my sps can color up. My phosphates are high and I am currently running gfo. I tested with a Hanna meter a week ago and they are at 0.24ppm. Will using an ATS lower my phosphates, kill the hair algae on my rocks, and leave a little nitrate in the tank? If so, then I'm all for it! Thanks guys!

My experience has been, initially the amount you feed needs to be kept to a mininimum, to allow the ATS to rapidly mature, and pull the excess nutrients from the system, and removed with cleanings. After that, you feed accordingly. I.e. feed until either your fish/corals are happy, or your ATS can not keep up.

For a short tem fix, I used API's AlgaeFix Marine. Once it wiped out all the hair algae in short order, I started using my ATS, feeding the tank at a minimum to keep everything barely happy, but removing the built up nutrients in the tank and cleaning the ATS once a week. Once I noticed my ATS not producing as it had, I started feeding more till everything is fat and happy again, and spreading out the ATS cleanings to 2 week intervals. This all started last May 2014. I have not seen any hair algae in my display tank since then.

HERE is a thread on RC with all the success stories of members using AlgaeFix.

The point of an ATS is to remove access nutrients by growing hair algae where you want to, and not in the display tank. The feedings recommended in this thread seem to influence growing hair algae only.
 
wildman926 thanks for posting your experience with algaefix. My concern was that adding something that is supposed to knock out algae in the tank might effectively stop the scrubber from growing as well, what was your experience in that regard?

I regularly get asked if a scrubber can help battle back an existing or pending algae threat on a tank full of corals. The problem is that it is a long-term solution and will not necessarily fix an immediate problem fast enough to save corals that are really being threatened by a bad outbreak - that's because the scrubber needs to mature in order to really start fighting off tank algae.

One answer is to apply a short term fix like aglaefix but I am not familiar enough with it.

Another is to use phosphateRX from Blue Life to knock down the P and weaken the tank algae. Same concern w/r to the scrubber, but I don't worry as much about that because PhosphateRX doesn't continue to remove phosphate that is introduced into the tank after the treatment, and you can reduce by a calculated amount instead of dropping it to zero quick (which you would not want to do anyways) so there is still a continuous supply of nutrients for the scrubber to mature, you just knock a leg out of the tank algae in the meantime.

No matter what though, the key to long term success is stability, and using something like PhosphateRX or AlgaeFix, that will probably introduce some instability
 
Thanks guys. Yes, I have read most of the Algaefix thread as I was contemplating using it. I have to be honest and say that I am afraid of the side effects it could have on my coral. If my fish (kole tang and lawnmower blenny) don't eat the hair algae and keep it under control when they get out of TT, then I may try the Algaefix as a last resort. I would love to try an ATS before the Algaefix but I'm unsure if the ATS will be available by then.
 
wildman926 thanks for posting your experience with algaefix. My concern was that adding something that is supposed to knock out algae in the tank might effectively stop the scrubber from growing as well, what was your experience in that regard?

I regularly get asked if a scrubber can help battle back an existing or pending algae threat on a tank full of corals. The problem is that it is a long-term solution and will not necessarily fix an immediate problem fast enough to save corals that are really being threatened by a bad outbreak - that's because the scrubber needs to mature in order to really start fighting off tank algae.

One answer is to apply a short term fix like aglaefix but I am not familiar enough with it.

Another is to use phosphateRX from Blue Life to knock down the P and weaken the tank algae. Same concern w/r to the scrubber, but I don't worry as much about that because PhosphateRX doesn't continue to remove phosphate that is introduced into the tank after the treatment, and you can reduce by a calculated amount instead of dropping it to zero quick (which you would not want to do anyways) so there is still a continuous supply of nutrients for the scrubber to mature, you just knock a leg out of the tank algae in the meantime.

No matter what though, the key to long term success is stability, and using something like PhosphateRX or AlgaeFix, that will probably introduce some instability

Hey Floyd,

I had enough sense to understand what each method does, and use the AlgaeFix as the initial treatment. Once the hair algae was gone, I switched to the Turbo's Aquatics L2 ATS. :beer:

There is 0 effect on corals using AlgaeFix, as I and others have experienced. It is effective for only 24 hours.
 
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