Algae Scrubber Basics

For CFLs you can run them 18/6, I've heard from people who run 24/7 and get good results but generally this is on a larger and very high bioload tank.

This is good to know. I think my system falls into the large/high bioload tank so I think I'll try 24/7 for a while and see how it goes. I havent been able to to get my No3 below 25 for as long as I can remember so this really gets me hoping Im going to get some good results.

Thanks again Floyd. I cant tell how much I appreciate the help,knowledge and advice.
 
I would hold off on 24/7 lighting until your screen is mature.

Here is what I would recommend:

Light it for 12-16 hours for the first 2-4 weeks. Clean at least every 14 days, but check it at 7 and 10 days. If you have a lot of brown gooey growth, you will want to clean this off gently by swiping your hand across the screen while you run room gently flowing temp tap water across it (don't use a sink sprayer). Leave whatever stays attached on the screen.

After about 3-4 weeks, you might start to get clumps of green growth that are stuck on pretty well. Try scraping this off by raking the screen with the backs of your fingernails - again, to remove the loosely attached growth, leaving whatever is well attached in place. You can likely go to 18/6 lighting at this point (CFL only - LEDs follow a different lighting process)

After about 6 weeks, most of your screen should have good attachment and you may have to start using a credit card or a pot scraper to remove it. When you get to this point, you can consider your screen to be mature and now you can blast it with a longer photoperiod. I would go to 20 or 22 hours at the most personally at first. As long as you don't end up getting a green base with dark slime on top of it, or yellowish spongey-gooey type growth, you can stay at that photoperiod or increase it. If you do get that type of growth, your photoperiod is a bit too long
 
Algae Scrubber Advice

Algae Scrubber Advice

Hello all,

I've been reading through this thread for the last week (and still haven't gotten up to the current page), but it has provided me with a lot of valuable information as I'm now planning on taking the plunge into constructing an algae scrubber to help control some nuisance hair algae I've been battling for the last 2 years (I'd done pretty much everything else I can think of and that has been suggested to me, from chemical filtration, to playing with the intensity and direction of my LED lighting).

However, before I go out and purchase everything I'd like some input on my construction to make sure I'm doing things right.

I have a 75 gallon tank with a 20 gallon (give or take a gallon) sump. Display lighting is 2 Evergrow panels (55 3w LED's each) that have been running well for the last 2 years. Bought the system used 5 years ago, so the sump was set up as is, so there's only so much modification I can do with its construction. Though I have figured out how to construct a gravity fed ATS to pull water out of the sump using a pump and let it flow back in using gravity.

I plan on using a 9x9 screen and lighting it with 2 lamps with 10.5 inch reflectors
( http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061MZ4Q6...TF8&colid=3EDFHVS1X3EXP&coliid=I3H9BW7L44IEH9 )

Instead of using two 40 or 42 watt CFL's (since they're harder to come by and much more expensive) I plan on installing a socket splitter in each lamp and utilizing four 23 watt CFL's.

I plan on feeding the ATS with a 420 gph pump ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/251072148403?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT )
I'll install some sort of valve so that I can throttle the water if need be.

Does this look sufficient?

Also, I haven't been able to catch up completely on the reading yet, but a lot of people early on were talking about using the screw in LED bulbs in their lamps (something like this perhaps: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...ant-grow-lights-85-265v/217887_873023472.html ). Did any of those ever pan out (I'd like to avoid buying new bulbs every 3 months if possible, but will do it if necessary)? At some point in the future I may attempt to use LED panels, but seeing as how this is my first ATS I want to keep things as simple and cheap as possible.

Any thoughts?
 
The pump might be too small, for a 9" wide screen you want about 315 GPH after head loss. Figure 24" of head for the slot pipe and then add in your vertical rise from sump water level to center of pipe.

The CFLs will do, but I think that aliexpress light is actually a pretty good one. I would check with them as far as exactly what wavelenght of LEDs they are using because they don't seem to specify it. If you have the option, use all 660nm Deep red and for the blue I would use 430, or if they would do it, half 430 and half 460.

on your screen size, 9x9 = 81 sq in, 81/12= 6+ cubes/day, are you feeding that much? I recommend going with a screen that is sized for not much more than 2x what you feed.

Feeding based guideline says 12 sq in of screen lit on both sides per cube of food fed per day (see basics in my sig)
 
could I used the drain pipes to create flow over the mesh screen by teeing the drain outlet and using about 1 inch pipe to make the slit? this way I wouldn't need to get another pump and stuf?
 
The pump might be too small, for a 9" wide screen you want about 315 GPH after head loss. Figure 24" of head for the slot pipe and then add in your vertical rise from sump water level to center of pipe.

The CFLs will do, but I think that aliexpress light is actually a pretty good one. I would check with them as far as exactly what wavelenght of LEDs they are using because they don't seem to specify it. If you have the option, use all 660nm Deep red and for the blue I would use 430, or if they would do it, half 430 and half 460.

on your screen size, 9x9 = 81 sq in, 81/12= 6+ cubes/day, are you feeding that much? I recommend going with a screen that is sized for not much more than 2x what you feed.

Feeding based guideline says 12 sq in of screen lit on both sides per cube of food fed per day (see basics in my sig)


Really, to small a pump? Should I move up to about 500 gph (I was worried about over pressurizing it, but I'm new to this so I I'll defer to your wisdom).

I'll see if I can send Aliexpress an email, but I don't think that's an option. However I found another thread on RC where a guy said that specific light was working well for his ATS system. So maybe I'll give that a go.
Rules don't change with LED's in regards to ATS systems correct? They should last for years as apposed to months?

lol...I have a very small feeding regiment since I currently only have 5 fish, a coral banded shrimp, and a small clean up crew (and corals). Only about 1/2 a cube every other day and a few pinches of pellet food on the off days (with a quarter sheet of nori for my foxface).

I'd rather go overkill on filtration than under (provided it didn't create another problem). Just wanna wipe out the hair algae issue since everything else is doing fine (and I've resorted to scrubbing the rocks and other areas off every week or so to get rid of the algae).
 
could I used the drain pipes to create flow over the mesh screen by teeing the drain outlet and using about 1 inch pipe to make the slit? this way I wouldn't need to get another pump and stuf?

You can do this, but the failure point is when something goes down the overflow pipe and get jammed in the slot pipe. So you will want a secondary path for water to flow in case this happens.

Generally you shouldn't need to worry about algae growing into the slot/screen junction because when this occurs the pressure increases and prevents algae from further blocking the flow. But it can cause the water to back up the overflow standpipe in order to create this head pressure. Adding a form of light blocking to the slot/screen junction remedies this.

Back to the secondary path, if you only have one drainpipe, you can add a tee in the drain pipe to allow for this path but you want it high enough to allow for the head pressure to build up without just bypassing the screen completely. So you might add a tee that is connected to another tee with an open top, and then a straight shot down to the sump from there. This way your bypass drain is open-air and will not siphon. But that working depends on your specific setup.

Really, to small a pump? Should I move up to about 500 gph (I was worried about over pressurizing it, but I'm new to this so I I'll defer to your wisdom).

I'll see if I can send Aliexpress an email, but I don't think that's an option. However I found another thread on RC where a guy said that specific light was working well for his ATS system. So maybe I'll give that a go.
Rules don't change with LED's in regards to ATS systems correct? They should last for years as apposed to months?

lol...I have a very small feeding regiment since I currently only have 5 fish, a coral banded shrimp, and a small clean up crew (and corals). Only about 1/2 a cube every other day and a few pinches of pellet food on the off days (with a quarter sheet of nori for my foxface).

I'd rather go overkill on filtration than under (provided it didn't create another problem). Just wanna wipe out the hair algae issue since everything else is doing fine (and I've resorted to scrubbing the rocks and other areas off every week or so to get rid of the algae).

It's just a matter of head loss and what you need to deliver. You ideally want 35 GPH per inch of slot width, actual flow. You can get away with less but you may have to de-rate your screen capacity accordingly. Also remember that pump output decreases over time, so oversizing it a bit prevents you from having to clean it all the time to keep the flow where you want it. Also it's easy to valve a pump back a bit.

As long as the LED light is 660nm mixed with something, you're fine. You just don't want 630nm. Their listing has a bunch of different wavelengths listed in a section that looks a little 'educational' but it doesn't list what is actually in the lamp you are buying, that's all. For instance, I doubt that lamp has any UV but they list that LED type and describe what it is for...kind of a generic listing.

You should not need to replace an LED lamp like that for quite a while. The output does not drop and shift like CFLs do. How long the lamp lasts depends on the initial quality, and of course, the conditions under which you run it. Placing it near a sump of a saltwater tank means higher probability of exposure, but as long as it doesn't get caked with salt creep you should be good to go.

LEDs do follow a few different rules. You will generally not want to run the 18/6 photoperiod, but rather only 9 hrs/day to start and then go up from there once you have mature growth. Coverage is generally tighter, meaning CFLs in a dome can cover a larger area with OK intensity but the LED will cover a smaller area with more intense light, and intensity is what you want. Distance from screen for LEDs varies with the lamp - there is a sweet spot. Too close and the intensity is too much and you will cause photosaturation (zero growth, or only brown slime). Too far away (trying to cover too large of an area) and you might never get strong GHA growth because the intensity lowers with distance (not by the inverse square rule, but it still drops). Usually right between those 2 points is where you get very good growth.

Most LED floods have a removable bezel, and removable lenses. This allows you to place the lamp closer and get broader coverage, but then it's wise to add some kind of splash shield to protect the now-bare LEDs.

You can always start with a larger screen and see how that works, and then make the slot pipe narrower later.

Also, you can vary things like flow and photoperiod and lighting intensity to get the amount of growth you need to accomplish your target level of growth/filtration.

HTH
Bud
 
You can do this, but the failure point is when something goes down the overflow pipe and get jammed in the slot pipe. So you will want a secondary path for water to flow in case this happens.

Generally you shouldn't need to worry about algae growing into the slot/screen junction because when this occurs the pressure increases and prevents algae from further blocking the flow. But it can cause the water to back up the overflow standpipe in order to create this head pressure. Adding a form of light blocking to the slot/screen junction remedies this.

Back to the secondary path, if you only have one drainpipe, you can add a tee in the drain pipe to allow for this path but you want it high enough to allow for the head pressure to build up without just bypassing the screen completely. So you might add a tee that is connected to another tee with an open top, and then a straight shot down to the sump from there. This way your bypass drain is open-air and will not siphon. But that working depends on your specific setup.



It's just a matter of head loss and what you need to deliver. You ideally want 35 GPH per inch of slot width, actual flow. You can get away with less but you may have to de-rate your screen capacity accordingly. Also remember that pump output decreases over time, so oversizing it a bit prevents you from having to clean it all the time to keep the flow where you want it. Also it's easy to valve a pump back a bit.

As long as the LED light is 660nm mixed with something, you're fine. You just don't want 630nm. Their listing has a bunch of different wavelengths listed in a section that looks a little 'educational' but it doesn't list what is actually in the lamp you are buying, that's all. For instance, I doubt that lamp has any UV but they list that LED type and describe what it is for...kind of a generic listing.

You should not need to replace an LED lamp like that for quite a while. The output does not drop and shift like CFLs do. How long the lamp lasts depends on the initial quality, and of course, the conditions under which you run it. Placing it near a sump of a saltwater tank means higher probability of exposure, but as long as it doesn't get caked with salt creep you should be good to go.

LEDs do follow a few different rules. You will generally not want to run the 18/6 photoperiod, but rather only 9 hrs/day to start and then go up from there once you have mature growth. Coverage is generally tighter, meaning CFLs in a dome can cover a larger area with OK intensity but the LED will cover a smaller area with more intense light, and intensity is what you want. Distance from screen for LEDs varies with the lamp - there is a sweet spot. Too close and the intensity is too much and you will cause photosaturation (zero growth, or only brown slime). Too far away (trying to cover too large of an area) and you might never get strong GHA growth because the intensity lowers with distance (not by the inverse square rule, but it still drops). Usually right between those 2 points is where you get very good growth.

Most LED floods have a removable bezel, and removable lenses. This allows you to place the lamp closer and get broader coverage, but then it's wise to add some kind of splash shield to protect the now-bare LEDs.

You can always start with a larger screen and see how that works, and then make the slot pipe narrower later.

Also, you can vary things like flow and photoperiod and lighting intensity to get the amount of growth you need to accomplish your target level of growth/filtration.

HTH
Bud

Cool thanks!

I have the bean animal 3 drain setup, iwas going to put the scrubber on the main siphon as that has the most flow, if it ever get any blockage i guess the secondary would increase flow?

thanks!
 
That is correct, BA is a good system to use for a scrubber as long as the flow matches up. Mine BA runs 3000 GPH so I would need a really huge scrubber to be able to use that.
 
That is correct, BA is a good system to use for a scrubber as long as the flow matches up. Mine BA runs 3000 GPH so I would need a really huge scrubber to be able to use that.

i got no idea, i have 1" bulkheads into 1 1/2" down pipes. i was thinking of teeing off to one open outlet for excess water drain and one side for the scrubber with 1" pvc again...
 
It's just a matter of head loss and what you need to deliver. You ideally want 35 GPH per inch of slot width, actual flow. You can get away with less but you may have to de-rate your screen capacity accordingly. Also remember that pump output decreases over time, so oversizing it a bit prevents you from having to clean it all the time to keep the flow where you want it. Also it's easy to valve a pump back a bit.

As long as the LED light is 660nm mixed with something, you're fine. You just don't want 630nm. Their listing has a bunch of different wavelengths listed in a section that looks a little 'educational' but it doesn't list what is actually in the lamp you are buying, that's all. For instance, I doubt that lamp has any UV but they list that LED type and describe what it is for...kind of a generic listing.

You should not need to replace an LED lamp like that for quite a while. The output does not drop and shift like CFLs do. How long the lamp lasts depends on the initial quality, and of course, the conditions under which you run it. Placing it near a sump of a saltwater tank means higher probability of exposure, but as long as it doesn't get caked with salt creep you should be good to go.

LEDs do follow a few different rules. You will generally not want to run the 18/6 photoperiod, but rather only 9 hrs/day to start and then go up from there once you have mature growth. Coverage is generally tighter, meaning CFLs in a dome can cover a larger area with OK intensity but the LED will cover a smaller area with more intense light, and intensity is what you want. Distance from screen for LEDs varies with the lamp - there is a sweet spot. Too close and the intensity is too much and you will cause photosaturation (zero growth, or only brown slime). Too far away (trying to cover too large of an area) and you might never get strong GHA growth because the intensity lowers with distance (not by the inverse square rule, but it still drops). Usually right between those 2 points is where you get very good growth.

Most LED floods have a removable bezel, and removable lenses. This allows you to place the lamp closer and get broader coverage, but then it's wise to add some kind of splash shield to protect the now-bare LEDs.

You can always start with a larger screen and see how that works, and then make the slot pipe narrower later.

Also, you can vary things like flow and photoperiod and lighting intensity to get the amount of growth you need to accomplish your target level of growth/filtration.

HTH
Bud


Lighting always confuses the heck out of me. The more I read about it the less I feel I understand. I emailed the manufacturer about what wavelength their bulbs are at, but haven't gotten a reply yet.

Maybe I'll start with double CFL's in both lamps (2 split in each lamp) until I get good growth and then switch one side over to LED's and see how well it does. If it continues to work I'll switch the other side over to LED's as well.

For $2.00 more I found a 580 GPH pump so I might as well go up to that one just to be sure I have enough water flow.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261569376366_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Thanks for the help.

If anyone has actually tested an LED that is known to work just let me know.
 
i got no idea, i have 1" bulkheads into 1 1/2" down pipes. i was thinking of teeing off to one open outlet for excess water drain and one side for the scrubber with 1" pvc again...

That should work, if you have enough flow to exceed what the scrubber needs, then you put a gate valve on the excess. I'm not 100% sure which would go first, the scrubber screen or the excess valve. The issue is the horizontal run of pipe and the effect of air getting sucked in to the siphon line. I would think you would want the scrubber last in the chain. I know it has been done, anyone who has it set up please feel free to chime in :)

Maybe I'll start with double CFL's in both lamps (2 split in each lamp) until I get good growth and then switch one side over to LED's and see how well it does. If it continues to work I'll switch the other side over to LED's as well.

That's a good plan, get the scrubber going first, on the cheap.
 
maybe this would go in the advanced section, but i am interested in increasing pods in my tank. Due either the low nutrients or the fact that i can not keep any cheato alive for them to grow in the microfauna in my tank has tapered off. Looking for ideas...Thx
 
Pretty high power, with the right reflector that might do well. I haven't seen a lamp like that before, interesting.

You would want to make sure that the lamp is completely inside the reflector, any part of the lamp that protrudes past the edge will be lost light. This is a problem with CFLs as well, but CFLs have more of a even/wider distribution. With an LED lamp like this one, you have highly directional light so you would lose more of that if it wasn't reflected.

To make the best use of this LED lamp I would say you would actually want the lamp seated a full inch or so within the reflector. A standard Home Depot one might not be quite deep enough. I think you could get some reflective mylar or polished aluminum ($$) and fashion your own, just a cone shape would do.

Nice find though...those LED appear to be 3W, so that's what you want, and they are the right wavelength (660/445)
 
maybe this would go in the advanced section, but i am interested in increasing pods in my tank. Due either the low nutrients or the fact that i can not keep any cheato alive for them to grow in the microfauna in my tank has tapered off. Looking for ideas...Thx

When I clean my scrubber screens, I get pods around 1cm dropping off into the cleaning bin on a regular basis. An algae mat is a huge pod breeding ground, you will get millions of microscopic baby copepods. Most people see a pod explosion in their tanks after adding a scrubber.
 
Pretty high power, with the right reflector that might do well. I haven't seen a lamp like that before, interesting.

You would want to make sure that the lamp is completely inside the reflector, any part of the lamp that protrudes past the edge will be lost light. This is a problem with CFLs as well, but CFLs have more of a even/wider distribution. With an LED lamp like this one, you have highly directional light so you would lose more of that if it wasn't reflected.

To make the best use of this LED lamp I would say you would actually want the lamp seated a full inch or so within the reflector. A standard Home Depot one might not be quite deep enough. I think you could get some reflective mylar or polished aluminum ($$) and fashion your own, just a cone shape would do.

Nice find though...those LED appear to be 3W, so that's what you want, and they are the right wavelength (660/445)


Yeah, when I saw that I was quite intrigued. Though I have extremely limited building skills so I won't be constructing my own lamp housing.

I may try that out on one side of my scrubber after establishing good growth several months from now.
 
Another way you could to it might be a lot easier (not sure why I didn't think of this before)

Hang that lamp vertically and just place a curved piece of a reflective material behind it in a C shape. Could also do the same horizontally.

Think of a cord & plug shop light, the one with the reflector on the back half and wireguard on the front. Same thing just make it bigger. Go back to srusso's very first post on this thread.
 
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