Algae Scrubber Basics

[Floyd R Turbo]

Has anyone ever had any trouble putting a bulb splitter inside their dome using 2 CFL's in one lamp?

Something like this?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005HN17D4...TF8&colid=3EDFHVS1X3EXP&coliid=I39VIAPY25NGF7

That works pretty well. You have the right idea that using that and 2x 23W vs a single 46W is less expensive and it also provides you a little bit more even coverage. The downside is that the lamps get pushed out from the reflector more so you would want a pretty big reflector. You can "extend" your reflector as well by using aluminum foil to capture & redirect the light (shiny side in)

 

[WhiteShark1]

Another way you could to it might be a lot easier (not sure why I didn't think of this before)

Hang that lamp vertically and just place a curved piece of a reflective material behind it in a C shape. Could also do the same horizontally.

Think of a cord & plug shop light, the one with the reflector on the back half and wireguard on the front. Same thing just make it bigger. Go back to srusso's very first post on this thread.

For the LED's or CFL's?

Would Aluminum foil pressed against the back of the hanging lamp be considered a good reflector? lol

 

[WhiteShark1]

That works pretty well. You have the right idea that using that and 2x 23W vs a single 46W is less expensive and it also provides you a little bit more even coverage. The downside is that the lamps get pushed out from the reflector more so you would want a pretty big reflector. You can "extend" your reflector as well by using aluminum foil to capture & redirect the light (shiny side in)

The one I'm planning on using is 10.5 inches in diameter (it was the biggest I could find without going to the ridiculously expensive hydroponics stuff).

Here it is:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061MZ4Q6...TF8&colid=3EDFHVS1X3EXP&coliid=I3H9BW7L44IEH9

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

For the LED's or CFL's?

Would Aluminum foil pressed against the back of the hanging lamp be considered a good reflector? lol

Yes actually. Srusso just took old snack chip bags and glued them to the inside to increase the reflectance. Also google "beer can reflector"...that works too.

The one I'm planning on using is 10.5 inches in diameter (it was the biggest I could find without going to the ridiculously expensive hydroponics stuff).

Here it is:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0061MZ4Q6...TF8&colid=3EDFHVS1X3EXP&coliid=I3H9BW7L44IEH9

The splitter might push the lamps out past the reflector, that's why I suggested adding some more material to it (foil). A CFL has most of the light radiating out sideways, so putting the lamp in the central point of the reflector (single lamp) is what it is designed for.

The splitter takes the lamp out of that central point, but it turns the lamp sideways at an angle, so you get that side light directly on the screen, and then the light off the back hits the reflector and gets pushed forward, so it still works - you get the light from the "front" and "back" of the lamp directed forward, but the light from the "sides" (not directly pointing at the screen) can get lost a bit. So that's where the extra reflector material comes in, just tape it to the edge of the dome and make the dome another inch or so bigger.

 

[WhiteShark1]

Yes actually. Srusso just took old snack chip bags and glued them to the inside to increase the reflectance. Also google "beer can reflector"...that works too.



The splitter might push the lamps out past the reflector, that's why I suggested adding some more material to it (foil). A CFL has most of the light radiating out sideways, so putting the lamp in the central point of the reflector (single lamp) is what it is designed for.

The splitter takes the lamp out of that central point, but it turns the lamp sideways at an angle, so you get that side light directly on the screen, and then the light off the back hits the reflector and gets pushed forward, so it still works - you get the light from the "front" and "back" of the lamp directed forward, but the light from the "sides" (not directly pointing at the screen) can get lost a bit. So that's where the extra reflector material comes in, just tape it to the edge of the dome and make the dome another inch or so bigger.

Okay I might just do that (just run aluminum foil around the edges and tape it. Or cut open a couple of soda cans and screw them into place.

However, lemme float this idea by you. What about 1 of those LED bulbs inside that large 10.5 reflector (one on each side of the screen). Would that negate the need for 2 bulbs per dome?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Hard to say, I've never seen them used, but it might. Maybe do your CFL setup and order one of those to see. The heat sink on the LED lamp might push the lit-up part out of the center-point of the dome, so you lose the efficiency of the reflector a bit when that happens.

 

[WhiteShark1]

Hard to say, I've never seen them used, but it might. Maybe do your CFL setup and order one of those to see. The heat sink on the LED lamp might push the lit-up part out of the center-point of the dome, so you lose the efficiency of the reflector a bit when that happens.

True, but if I extend the reflectors with foil or cut up cans, it may sink the LED back down inside the rim of the now extended dome.
I'm liking the idea more and more of doing CFL's first, and then transitioning to LED's on one side, seeing how it does and if it works going to the other side.

 

[kegogut]

Ive been using CFLs and am am having great results so far.

 

[SantaMonica]

I have a very small feeding

But how much rock do you have? Each 50 pounds of problem rock (I think you said you had nuisance algae on them) counts for an extra 1 cube a day.

 

[WhiteShark1]

But how much rock do you have? Each 50 pounds of problem rock (I think you said you had nuisance algae on them) counts for an extra 1 cube a day.

I didn't know that. I've got like 120-135lb of rock in my 75 (got it for a really good price which is why I have so much). That might be a contributing factor to my problem algae as well.

 

[WhiteShark1]

Floyd, what do you think about 2 of these used with the 10.5 inch reflectors.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30137371094...49&var=600358924856&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I was looking at the 54 watt versions as they'd be shorter than the 69w and may fit into the reflector better, but still be 3w per LED. More importantly they're in stock and cheaper than the 69w.

I still haven't caught up completely on this thread, but I'm getting to the point where everyone is starting to transition over to LED's so I'm think I may want to go that way from the beginning now.

Oh, and make my screen 8x8 as well.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think that 54W one looks pretty good. Without seeing one I would say that if you were looking at a CFL "equivalent" wattage, you would have to find a CFL that is over 150W (actual, not equivalent) to compare to that one.

I'd be interested to see how that performs in a dome reflector or a DIY one. Looks very promising.

 

[kegogut]

I would also be interested in how those perform. Keep us posted if you get them.

 

[WhiteShark1]

I think that 54W one looks pretty good. Without seeing one I would say that if you were looking at a CFL "equivalent" wattage, you would have to find a CFL that is over 150W (actual, not equivalent) to compare to that one.

I'd be interested to see how that performs in a dome reflector or a DIY one. Looks very promising.

Well the 69w just became available (along with the 54W). Would the 69w be overkill? Obviously I don't want to fry the algae. Again, my knowledge of lighting is minuscule. I know for display tanks bigger, brighter, and more powerful is always better, but algae scrubbers are different.

I plan to illuminate the scrubber from both sides (if I didn't mention that before).

 

[WhiteShark1]

I think the 54w will fit inside the dome lamp better that I'm planning on getting. That is one advantage I see to going slightly smaller.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think the 69W one would be pushing it a bit, I'm leery about the power put put by that 54W even.

The thing about LED, and why you need less out of an LED growth lamp is the spectrum output is more specific. So it's easy to over-light with LED, mainly on a brand new screen. After a screen is mature, if you have enough bioload to provide it ample nutrients, the high output can work to your advantage as you get get some really good growth, more than CFLs. But if you have a mature screen and low nutrients and you over light it, this can be a detriment to the screen.

To compensate for various scenarios, you can use a much shorter photoperiod and split it up. So let's say you are in danger of over-lighting because you have relatively low overall nutrients - a long and strong photoperiod may overwhelm the screen, but several short high-power bursts of light may not overwhelm it. These kinds of techniques can be used to get good growth under LEDs. CFLs, generally, you run them in one continuous photoperiod because the intensity just isn't normall there like it can be with LEDs.

 

[WhiteShark1]

I think the 69W one would be pushing it a bit, I'm leery about the power put put by that 54W even.

The thing about LED, and why you need less out of an LED growth lamp is the spectrum output is more specific. So it's easy to over-light with LED, mainly on a brand new screen. After a screen is mature, if you have enough bioload to provide it ample nutrients, the high output can work to your advantage as you get get some really good growth, more than CFLs. But if you have a mature screen and low nutrients and you over light it, this can be a detriment to the screen.

To compensate for various scenarios, you can use a much shorter photoperiod and split it up. So let's say you are in danger of over-lighting because you have relatively low overall nutrients - a long and strong photoperiod may overwhelm the screen, but several short high-power bursts of light may not overwhelm it. These kinds of techniques can be used to get good growth under LEDs. CFLs, generally, you run them in one continuous photoperiod because the intensity just isn't normall there like it can be with LEDs.

Oh so like a 4 hour on 4 hour off kind of thing?

I figure I'll start out with a 9 hour lighting period and tweek it from there.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

With that light, I would say you are safe to start with a 9 hour solid photoperiod but if you don't get any signs of initial growth after 10 days, I would split it up into 4 on 1 off 4 on 15 off.

Initial growth should be a light brown coating that is easily swiped off with the palm of your hand, and maybe a few sprigs of green here and there. If the screen is stark white and shows no signs of growth, that's too much light.

I think since the LEDs on that lamp face sideways this will cut down on the tendency for LEDs to cause this photosaturation effect. You lose a bit of efficiency but the lamp is over the top to begin with, so that might just balance out.

I might get a hold of one of these myself.

 

[WhiteShark1]

With that light, I would say you are safe to start with a 9 hour solid photoperiod but if you don't get any signs of initial growth after 10 days, I would split it up into 4 on 1 off 4 on 15 off.

Initial growth should be a light brown coating that is easily swiped off with the palm of your hand, and maybe a few sprigs of green here and there. If the screen is stark white and shows no signs of growth, that's too much light.

I think since the LEDs on that lamp face sideways this will cut down on the tendency for LEDs to cause this photosaturation effect. You lose a bit of efficiency but the lamp is over the top to begin with, so that might just balance out.

I might get a hold of one of these myself.

lol...lemme buy my 2 first. :fun4:

 

[WhiteShark1]

Does an 8x8 screen sound adequate with my limited feeding of less than 1 cube a day (I do want to allow for growth over time)? I've got a hair algae outbreak so I'm sure some nutrients are leaching out of the live rock and what not since the tank is over 5 years old.