Algae Scrubber Basics

[Maximus]

God, I love this scrubber (L2)! This is 9 days since I set it up. Any feedback is appreciated!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Let it grow for another 3-5 days and then give it a cleaning.

First cleaning, just take out the screen, swipe your palm across both sides, rinse in room temp tap water (gentle flow) and put it back on for another 14 days. At the rate you are growing, you should start seeing some good coverage about a week after cleaning.

Leave the lighting at 9 hrs/day, don't jump the gun - just let the scrubber get going.

 

[Maximus]

Ok, will do. Here's a pic of the other side:

 

[thejuggernaut]

Edit: Thanks for the quick reply! I will proceed accordingly. Followup question: I can't help but wonder if by only providing two wavelengths of light (ie 660 and 420), the algae is missing out on various other wavelengths that it might not use so much for photosynthesis, but might be really helpful as a cue/trigger for various metabolic pathways. So part of me wanted to go with primarily 660s, but also add a couple whites in case the additional spectrums might be of any service. Do you have any thoughts on this?

And for my second question: It appears that the roughed-up plastic canvas is still the standard go-to for ATS units. However, I like the idea of something rigid for ease of removing and scraping. I was planning to make my screen out of a ceramic tile that I would coat with a light layer of cement/crushed coral mix, for lots of turbulence. Over the past couple years that I've been away, has anyone had any reported successes/failures with these other screen materials?

Has anyone ever tried using miners moss? Although it is flexible and kinda thick, it looks like it would hold on to algae and water really well. Plus, if it is designed to be put in a giant sluice with 100k of tons of dirt and rock pouring over it, you know its tough.

http://www.goldhog.com/miners_moss.htm

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Interesting...

 

[kegogut]

The miners moss looks like it would be a great,until you try to clean it. Then it could be problematic I think.

 

[thejuggernaut]

Interesting...

Interesting as in I'm crazy, or interesting as in hey that might be a good idea? lol

 

[thejuggernaut]

The miners moss looks like it would be a great,until you try to clean it. Then it could be problematic I think.

I've seen them clean the rocks and dirt out of it from gold sluicing and it comes out pretty clean, I think detritus wouldn't be an issue. I think scraping it with a flat piece would remove most of the algae, but leave enough inside the crevices to allow it to grow back fast. Plus I think it might increase pod production.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

The question is - is it rough enough for algae to bond to it? It seems to look like it's pretty smooth up close. So over time, you might get algae that fills in the voids that you would not be able to clean out, and that would form the base upon which new growth would form.

The reason I always default to the plastic canvas is that it is very thin and transparent, so when you clean it, you get a nice thin base of algae from which to spawn new growth, and you get light from both sides that penetrates through to the base of growth.

The thought of a 3M scrubby pad comes to mind, although that would be a substrate that would tend to disintegrate over time (so it wouldn't be good) it's a similar concept to the miners moss - creating an area to 'trap' growth to spawn from, but is dense and has light blocking tendencies.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work, these are just thoughts that come into my head. I'm still looking for a better growth substrate, at least, one that doesn't take so long to create (rough up)

 

[thejuggernaut]

Yea, I thought it looked pretty smooth also. I took the lid off of a Marineland Biowheel I had running on a 29 gallon and once the light it, algae grew and stuck to it really well. For awhile I kind of used it as a spinning algae scrubber, and would clean the algae off when the wheels looked like they were about to stop spinning. You literally would destroy the wheel before cleaning all the algae off. It looks like paper, but I think it's actually some sort of plastic fiber.

 

[thejuggernaut]

I know they are crazy expensive but the marinepure 1" thick plates would be super porus. Maybe use a dual spray bar system (one on either side) and I bet algae would stick to it well. Plus you could just lift it right out without having to detach it from the spray bar.

 

[Brummie]

Here is a compilation of dark, slime, and black growths:

I think some folks think these growths are bad. This is not the case, it's merely that the scrubber environment favours these diatoms or dinoflagellates at that point. It is entirely possible that a tank may only ever produce this growth on a scrubber because of its abundance in the main tank, I've seen this on a few occasions without negative effects in the display.

 

[WhiteShark1]

I have a question, how long should it take before "some" kind of growth begins on the algae scrubber screen? I've had mine up and running for 2 days (9 1/2 hour light cycle with 54w red LED's) and I'm seeing zero signs of algae. Should I be concerned or does it sometime take a few weeks for growth to begin? My initial thought was that all the algae in my display tank is possibly robbing the algae scrubber of the nutrients it needs to grow.

I only ask because I've seen some people posting massive growth after just a week, so I'm not sure if I've missed something.

Here are the bulbs I'm using (54w):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30137371094...49&var=600358924855&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

It's VERY rare to have "massive" growth after just a week. You would need nearly perfect conditions for that to happen, and that is very tank specific so don't beat yourself up.

Normally it takes at least a week before you get enough growth to cover the screen with a brown dusting of either diatoms or brown hair algae. A mature screen can take anywhere from 2-6 weeks.

If you have truly zero growth, like bare white, after a week - then something is wrong, and with an LED lamp it is usually too much light.

But more information is needed really:

Scrubber config (pics help)
screen size (L x W)
light quantity, type, proximity, etc
Light cycle (you said 9.5 hrs)
flow rate
tank size
feeding rate (cubes/day)
nitrate test
phosphate test
if possible, potassium test (Salifert is a good one)

 

[WhiteShark1]

I cringe to show pics of my jerry rigged system (I am in no way a plumber or very good DIYer so there was a lot of trial and error. Zip ties saved my life). Pics will be bellow

Screen size was 8x8, but with the way it's running I think it's more like 7x7

These bulbs are supposed to be 460nm deep red.

Since they're 3 watt LED's I wanted to start with a short light cycle and work my way up.

I'm using a 530 gph pump on the low setting (not sure exactly what the flow rate is). I started on low because I was having some trouble with the water stream arching and leaving about a quarter of the screen untouched. Seems to be evening out better now.

Tank size is 75 gallon (and ruffly a 20 gallon sump)

Very light feeding regiment, about 1/2 a cube ever other day (with pellets to offset the other days). I have a lot (125 lb) of live rock though. I think that's where my nutrients are coming from.

Last time I tested nitrate I was at 0.

Been awhile since I tested phosphates, but the last time I did they were in the normal to low range (however, the algae in my display was still out of control at that point as well).

See below pics (light is not actually purple, that's just the camera)

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Ok, a couple things here that may have an impact:

Screen is really oversized and looks like you have a ton of light on it. So the light might match the screen, but the screen doesn't match the tank.

7x7 = 49, 49/12 = 4 cube/day so you're roughly 8x oversized, if you have a rock nutrient issue then you might have some more nutrients contributing but this is a very poorly defined item and one can only guess as to what contribution "dirty" rock/sand has.

You said "zero growth" but from the 2 first pics, I see growth, looks like a brownish coloration, of am I seeing that wrong?

Post pics again in about a week. Get a shot of the screen like in the 3rd pic, without the lights on, and closer on the screen so I can see the growth pattern.

My guess is that it will be pretty bare in the middle, with growth filling in from the perimeter inward over time.

I'm really interested to see how these LED lights perform. These were discussed recently in this thread (by you?) and they look very nice.

If you had arcing, this is typical of a new screen and should even out over time. But your flow looks OK right now so just leave it. Once the screen is mature you can increase the flow and you'll get less of an arcing effect. But 530 GPH is zero head, what brand/model is it?

 

[WhiteShark1]

Ok, a couple things here that may have an impact:

Screen is really oversized and looks like you have a ton of light on it. So the light might match the screen, but the screen doesn't match the tank.

7x7 = 49, 49/12 = 4 cube/day so you're roughly 8x oversized, if you have a rock nutrient issue then you might have some more nutrients contributing but this is a very poorly defined item and one can only guess as to what contribution "dirty" rock/sand has.

You said "zero growth" but from the 2 first pics, I see growth, looks like a brownish coloration, of am I seeing that wrong?

Post pics again in about a week. Get a shot of the screen like in the 3rd pic, without the lights on, and closer on the screen so I can see the growth pattern.

My guess is that it will be pretty bare in the middle, with growth filling in from the perimeter inward over time.

I'm really interested to see how these LED lights perform. These were discussed recently in this thread (by you?) and they look very nice.

If you had arcing, this is typical of a new screen and should even out over time. But your flow looks OK right now so just leave it. Once the screen is mature you can increase the flow and you'll get less of an arcing effect. But 530 GPH is zero head, what brand/model is it?

I wanted to start bigger than I needed, and then I could always trim it down if need be. With the minimal amount I feed, I figured a 2x2 screen might be silly to even attempt. The amount of algae that is in my display tank would completely cover that screen and then some (however I've never heard of some sort of conversion in regards to algae growth in a display vs a scrubber)

It's funny you should mention that. I "thought" I was seeing things when I thought I saw such a mild amount of a brownish hue on the screen (depends on the light you shine on it as well). Maybe there is a small amount of growth after all if I'm not the only one seeing it.

Yes, that was me discussing those LED's. I figured I'd start with them since they were only $23.00 each (shipped from China) and if things didn't work I'd go to CFL's.

It was a no name brand pump off ebay.

 

[kegogut]

Im definitely interested in these bulbs too. Right now Im running four 23w 65k CFLs 20 hours a day. If these are good then I would like to try two of these instead of the four CFLs.
Last time I cleaned my screen I think I cleaned it too good and set myself back a few weeks. so we'll have to see what happens in a couple weeks.

I do have a question though. Right now Im reading at 20 No3 and 0 Po4. Would having low Po4 slow my growth of algae ?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Possibly, but what test kit did you use to get P=0?

 

[kegogut]

possibly, but what test kit did you use to get p=0?

Api.