Algae Scrubber Basics

Sorry, but although Floyd gives good advice and seems to know of what he says, he did not start the thread.

Srusso is the one who started the thread and put together the first post based on all the information that was available at the time (mainly from the scrubber site) and also took the initiative to get in touch with RC staff and have it made a sticky, so yes the credit should go to him.

He and I still keep in touch, and he still lurks here also, but he had to give up his tank a while back. He and I still talk every now and then and I'm sure he'll be back in the hobby someday!
 
Srusso is the one who started the thread and put together the first post based on all the information that was available at the time (mainly from the scrubber site) and also took the initiative to get in touch with RC staff and have it made a sticky, so yes the credit should go to him.

He and I still keep in touch, and he still lurks here also, but he had to give up his tank a while back. He and I still talk every now and then and I'm sure he'll be back in the hobby someday!

And your input and advice is very much appreciated by all of us who using, or planning to use, an ATS.

You have been helpful to me. Thank you.
 
Hi folks,

I have a Surf 2x which is, in hindsight, a lot more scrubber than I need.

I'm pretty much certain it's getting waaay too much light since it's not growing much algae, but there is a resilient patch of HA in the DT along with some bubble algae.

Unfortunately, I chucked the black cloth that came with the unit ages ago. I find that cheap pantyhose works well to block the light, but it shuts off my skimmer for a couple days.

First question: what's a good replacement for that black cloth?

Second question: is the photo inhibition I'm seeing coming from the intensity of the lights or the duration (16 hours, with two hours of overlap on either side for the lights in the display)?

Third question: should I be running the lights less than 16 hours?

Cheers and thanks!
 
A regular white t-shirt will work. Cover the LEDs half way. This would apply to any floating scrubber, or any very-high powered waterfall scrubber. Once growth fills in, the algae absorbs more light, and the light can be increased.

Photoinhibition is from the brightness, not duration. So 16 hours is fine. Even 18.
 
How are we all?
So first post on this forum and a few questions.

Today i have come up with a design for a HOB waterfall type ATS and have done some drawings and would like to know what everyone thinks, its based off a AC30 HOB filter and then the body i will make from acrylic.

Basic operation is as the main body of the AC30 fills and a slot in the back allows water to flow over to the ATS where the screens slide down through a floor with slits cut, the water flows down the screens as they do.
In the bottom there will be more mesh mounted to help catch any algae that brakes off. if the screen is to block or pump fail the water will just return back through the scrubber and out through the HOBs original outlet, I dont see that as being an issue as with should get cleaned every week.
The return pump, Im thinking a Hydor pico mini 250 as they are designed for low water levels.
There will be 2 sets of LED lights one between the Filter housing and the ATS housing and one on the back side of the ATS, screens are 4x7" so a total of 56 square inches for my up and coming 55G build.


HOB%20ATS%20Complete%205_zpszoadx7h4.jpg

HOB%20ATS%20Complete%204_zps8jqkwiyz.jpg

HOB%20ATS%20Complete%202_zps78us19zk.jpg

HOB%20ATS%20Complete%203_zpss9mpbjo9.jpg
 
i was thinking of splitting the housing and having them both 2 sided but just never did it, possibly the next design, but your right i would just go with one screen for now.
 
what happens when you shut off the scrubber pump, or if it gets clogged? I would bring the return chamber height up to the tank water level.
 
Here's my ATS update.

Here's my ATS update.

Things are looking pretty good with my setup. This is about 2 weeks growth and about the time I've been cleaning also. I'm still using a MJ1200 for flow until I have time to T off my return pump. The good green algae grows awesome closer to the edge where flow flow is better.I know flow is lacking especially when stuff clogs the intake screen on the pump. Screen is 7''x10" and lit on each side by 1 23w 2700k bulb. My nitrates are in check now and overall I'm happy with results.



 
I am sure that the LEDs are not suitable for Algae Scrubber.
Requires the full spectrum of light - this is the basis for Algae Scrubber
 
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I am sure that the LEDs are not suitable for Algae Scrubber.
Requires the full spectrum of light - this is the basis for Algae Scrubber

I'm not sure what post you are replying to...but no, you don't want full spectrum LEDs for an Algae Scrubber. You only really need 660nm Deep Red, any maybe some supplemental spectrum in the blue-violet range. But 660 is all you really "need".
 
Screen is 7''x10" and lit on each side by 1 23w 2700k bulb. My nitrates are in check now and overall I'm happy with results.

Yes, results are all that really matters, so even if you don't have "perfect" flow, light, etc...it comes down to what works for your system.
 
I'm not sure what post you are replying to...but no, you don't want full spectrum LEDs for an Algae Scrubber. You only really need 660nm Deep Red, any maybe some supplemental spectrum in the blue-violet range. But 660 is all you really "need".

I do not agree.

The sun is necessary for algae. So it is necessary to try to repeat.

The advantage of algae is that scrubber on it grow many species of algae, and most importantly, they have a different color!

Color indicates a favorable light spectrum.

An experiment - one grid to put two fluorescent lamps 2700K and 4100k and saw the difference in the types of algae growing in a wide range spectrum.
Algae grow those for which an enabling environment and the light! (close to nature) Different species of algae in different ways to change the composition of sea water.


6.jpg


11.gif
 
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Colored squares in previous message - show reflection of the light spectrum.



The following figure - Specified absorption spectrum of light (color filters lie on white paper.).

9.jpg
 
I do not agree.

The sun is necessary for algae. So it is necessary to try to repeat.

The advantage of algae is that scrubber on it grow many species of algae, and most importantly, they have a different color!

Color indicates a favorable light spectrum.

An experiment - one grid to put two fluorescent lamps 2700K and 4100k and saw the difference in the types of algae growing in a wide range spectrum.
Algae grow those for which an enabling environment and the light! (close to nature) Different species of algae in different ways to change the composition of sea water.

I understand your point and I had planned an experiment quite some time ago in order to try a few of these ideas out - a bandwidth test, essentially. Line up a bunch of scrubbers with various active bandwidths and a stock solution of water + fertilizer or something like that, and see which grew best. But I just haven't had the time.

What I can tell you is that while you do not agree, and that is OK, I have 3 scrubbers on tanks I own personally or help to maintain that run scrubbers with only 660nm and 445nm and they work extremely well. 2 of them run only a scrubber and are moderately to heavily fed, no algae in the tank, no nitrates, and very low (and stable) phosphates.

On top of that, literally hundreds of scrubbers out there running the exact same setup I run - only 660nm Deep Red and 445nm Royal Blue - and they do the job. I'm not saying that adding other spectra is completely unnecessary - I'm just saying that my personal opinion is that the additional spectra would very likely only get you another small percentage increase in production - likely, something along the lines of 5-10%, maybe as much as 15%.

On the other hand, if you look at CFL and T5HO scrubbers which are running 2700K-3000K lamps, these grow algae better than their counterparts running 4100K, 5000K, 6500K, etc. These combinations of fluorescent sources have been tried, and that's why the 2700-3000K was settled upon as the baseline to use for algae scrubbers. Because it worked better in real life applications.

Furthermore, what I have found is that LED based algae scrubbers that run 660 and 445 grow nearly exclusively green hair algae, whereas CFL scrubber running a wider-spectrum 2700K lamp (which contains a variance of spectra due to the nature of fluorescent sources, i.e. phosphors to shift UV light into visible/useable spectra) tends to grow a lot of other types of algae, like yellow spongey stuff, or gooey growth, or dark growth, etc, unless it's very closely matched to the system (i.e. tank, flow, lighting, etc are all in 'synch'). The GHA is what grows the fastest and is what "we" generally want to grow. My opinion on the LED growth is that the bandwidth is focused down to what is primarily needed to grow GHA (660 mainly) and I have proven this to myself 100x over. The extra bandwidth that is provided by fluorescent sources seems to actually cause the growth that I consider "nuisance" growth. That yellow gooey growth, etc, is not filamentous, so it grows in a sheet/mass and blocks light out to lower layers which can drastically reduce the effectiveness of the scrubber's filtration capability.

Early on in the experiments with LED algae scrubbers, people did try to use a mixture of different LED so try to achieve that wide-bandwidth mixture. They used warm whites, neutral whites, 630 reds, 660 reds, cool whites, blues, etc, all mixed together. They pretty much all came to the same conclusion and that was that all you really need is (primarily) 660nm Deep Red to effectively grow algae for the purposes of the algae scrubber.

Also I don't feel that plants are exactly analogous to algae given the rather unique application of the algae scrubber.
 
I understand your point and I had planned an experiment quite some time ago in order to try a few of these ideas out - a bandwidth test, essentially. Line up a bunch of scrubbers with various active bandwidths and a stock solution of water + fertilizer or something like that, and see which grew best. But I just haven't had the time.

What I can tell you is that while you do not agree, and that is OK, I have 3 scrubbers on tanks I own personally or help to maintain that run scrubbers with only 660nm and 445nm and they work extremely well. 2 of them run only a scrubber and are moderately to heavily fed, no algae in the tank, no nitrates, and very low (and stable) phosphates.

On top of that, literally hundreds of scrubbers out there running the exact same setup I run - only 660nm Deep Red and 445nm Royal Blue - and they do the job. I'm not saying that adding other spectra is completely unnecessary - I'm just saying that my personal opinion is that the additional spectra would very likely only get you another small percentage increase in production - likely, something along the lines of 5-10%, maybe as much as 15%.

On the other hand, if you look at CFL and T5HO scrubbers which are running 2700K-3000K lamps, these grow algae better than their counterparts running 4100K, 5000K, 6500K, etc. These combinations of fluorescent sources have been tried, and that's why the 2700-3000K was settled upon as the baseline to use for algae scrubbers. Because it worked better in real life applications.

Furthermore, what I have found is that LED based algae scrubbers that run 660 and 445 grow nearly exclusively green hair algae, whereas CFL scrubber running a wider-spectrum 2700K lamp (which contains a variance of spectra due to the nature of fluorescent sources, i.e. phosphors to shift UV light into visible/useable spectra) tends to grow a lot of other types of algae, like yellow spongey stuff, or gooey growth, or dark growth, etc, unless it's very closely matched to the system (i.e. tank, flow, lighting, etc are all in 'synch'). The GHA is what grows the fastest and is what "we" generally want to grow. My opinion on the LED growth is that the bandwidth is focused down to what is primarily needed to grow GHA (660 mainly) and I have proven this to myself 100x over. The extra bandwidth that is provided by fluorescent sources seems to actually cause the growth that I consider "nuisance" growth. That yellow gooey growth, etc, is not filamentous, so it grows in a sheet/mass and blocks light out to lower layers which can drastically reduce the effectiveness of the scrubber's filtration capability.

Early on in the experiments with LED algae scrubbers, people did try to use a mixture of different LED so try to achieve that wide-bandwidth mixture. They used warm whites, neutral whites, 630 reds, 660 reds, cool whites, blues, etc, all mixed together. They pretty much all came to the same conclusion and that was that all you really need is (primarily) 660nm Deep Red to effectively grow algae for the purposes of the algae scrubber.

Also I don't feel that plants are exactly analogous to algae given the rather unique application of the algae scrubber.


You are talking about the mass of green algae, and I'm talking about the diversity of species growing on the grid at the same time under full spectrum light. Each algae from the water takes what it needs. Do different types of algae - different needs! This is the main purpose of scrubber - diversity of algae grow - thereby aligning the parameters of sea water.


If you are interested in the mass of algae - caulerpa can be used and chaetomorpha - You agree?


After using for a couple of years I took a scrubber as unnecessary (had a lot of experiments)
For today aquarium 102g.



By the way, this photo shows why having 660nm and 450nm works. Look at the top-middle slide. We are trying to grow green algae. Why add green when it will simply be reflected. You proved yourself wrong in your own post.

This simplified picture.
Everything is much more difficult - if you look at the first picture with the grass.
 
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