Algae Scrubber Basics

[SantaMonica]

Is this an in-tank scrubber?

If you mean the pond, it's a test tank for various abusive methods for upflows. There are videos about the units.

 

[Spar]

go to this post (referenced in my sig) regarding DIY LED spacing

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23906862#post23906862



Which I see that you read...but that minimum number IMO is the deep red only, don't count the RBs or the HV.

I think what SM was saying was go with 16 DRs per side, with half on one circuit and half on another so you could switch half on to start, half on later once you get a mature screen.

However my recommendation would be to wire them in 2 circuits just like if you were only going to run one at first, but then parallel them together so that they only run at 1/2 current. You will get better coverage and less chance of photosaturation by running 660s at 700mA on a bare screen. However, distance from the screen would decrease the chance of this. If you put the array at 3"-4" or further from the screen, you should be OK running at 700mA

I plan to do 16 Deep Red, 2 Royal Blue and 2 Hyper Violet, per side. That makes the ratio 4:1 of Deep Red to Royal Blue / Hyper Violet. See any issues with that? If I were to drop out one of the Royal Blue or Hyper Violet, which would be better to drop?... this would make it 5.3:1 ratio.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just use Hyper Violet. Royal Blues, even at 50% current relative to the Reds is a bit too much I've found, either that, or the HVs just result in better production.

Don't worry about the R:V ratio, IMO the violets are only supplementary. If you did one HV per 8-12 reds, you're good. What I prefer to do is run 2 HVs at half-current instead of one, and then call those an "equivalent to one" pair (even though at 50% current they would have more than 50% of the full current output)

So if you do 16 DRs, use 4 HVs at half the current of the DRs.

You can wire up the HVs in series with the DR string, but then parallel the 2 HV together like this ("-" is a single wire from - to +, "=" is two wires, one from + to + and the other from - to -)

DRIVER (+) -R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-V=V- DRIVER (-)

 

[Spar]

Just use Hyper Violet. Royal Blues, even at 50% current relative to the Reds is a bit too much I've found, either that, or the HVs just result in better production.

Don't worry about the R:V ratio, IMO the violets are only supplementary. If you did one HV per 8-12 reds, you're good. What I prefer to do is run 2 HVs at half-current instead of one, and then call those an "equivalent to one" pair (even though at 50% current they would have more than 50% of the full current output)

So if you do 16 DRs, use 4 HVs at half the current of the DRs.

You can wire up the HVs in series with the DR string, but then parallel the 2 HV together like this ("-" is a single wire from - to +, "=" is two wires, one from + to + and the other from - to -)

DRIVER (+) -R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-V=V- DRIVER (-)

Thanks Floyd.

Although that only makes partial sense to me, I figure if I copy/paste this and send it to Steve's LED's, they should be able to make sense of it for me! An accounting/finance degree only gets me so far with electronics I have found :bum:

 

[chema]

Just use Hyper Violet. Royal Blues, even at 50% current relative to the Reds is a bit too much I've found, either that, or the HVs just result in better production.

Don't worry about the R:V ratio, IMO the violets are only supplementary. If you did one HV per 8-12 reds, you're good. What I prefer to do is run 2 HVs at half-current instead of one, and then call those an "equivalent to one" pair (even though at 50% current they would have more than 50% of the full current output)

So if you do 16 DRs, use 4 HVs at half the current of the DRs.

You can wire up the HVs in series with the DR string, but then parallel the 2 HV together like this ("-" is a single wire from - to +, "=" is two wires, one from + to + and the other from - to -)

DRIVER (+) -R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-V=V- DRIVER (-)

That wiring is a smart way to reduce to half the output of the HV. I guess another possibility is to run DRs and HVs in two different channels of the controller and regulate them in different ways.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Here is a string of 6 reds with a pair of blues in the middle, and a close up of the parallel wiring

 

[Spar]

That wiring is a smart way to reduce to half the output of the HV. I guess another possibility is to run DRs and HVs in two different channels of the controller and regulate them in different ways.

This is what Steve's LED's is setting up for me. The ability to control DR's and HV's (and formally RB's as well) independently.

But would it be cheaper and easier to just have them all on a single controller, and limiting HV's to 50% at all times? And just as effective long term?

 

[chema]

This is what Steve's LED's is setting up for me. The ability to control DR's and HV's (and formally RB's as well) independently.

But would it be cheaper and easier to just have them all on a single controller, and limiting HV's to 50% at all times? And just as effective long term?

I'm sure it would be both cheaper and easier, as you just would need a power supply. However, the controller allows you to run DRs and HVs in independent channels with a perfect control of the intensity in each channel. In that way you may start with low intensity and increase it progressively as the screen shows increasing growth. Also, you may play with the DRs/HVs ratio and see the effect on algae growth.

 

[sensei]

I have 2 tanks where I use nothing but a 4x6 screen (2 cube/day scrubber)

I don't test that often, but I did recently and on one (my personal sumpless 120 w/about 90g effective water volume) N=0.5-1.0 (Salifert) and P=0.06 (hanna). This was pretty typical until about a month ago - a month before that (2 months ago) I added about 14 more fish (Anthias and cardinals) and about doubled my feeding. Nitrates went up, so to phosphates. I had to re-configure the scrubber (which sits on top of the tank) so that it could drain better and take a higher flow. I also did a PWC (20g, or about 25%) just because I wanted to start changing the salt brand and well I hadn't done a PWC in a few years...

Other tank is a 144, and that water tested N=0 P=0.02.

For both tanks, all I do is top off and clean the scrubber every 10-14 days and very little else. For both tanks, this has been pretty much my only maintenance regimen for coming up on 4 years. Besides the inevitable scraping the glass and cleaning the pumps/power heads every now and then.

On my tank, I feed a decent square (probably 2 sq in) of either LRS or a DIY food every day, and clean the scrubber every 10. On the other tank, it's about half that on feeding, and cleaning every 14 days.

Regarding pods, you will have millions of microscopic baby copepods that come off the screen, so cleaning and throwing away is no big deal IMO. You don't need a planted fuge to grow pods, a bunch of LR in your sump will become a pod colony.

Floy,
you mention that you have a 2 cube per day scrubber in each tank and you added 14 more fish, so I guess you feed more than 2 cubes per day??
if this is so are you able to tweak the scrubber in a way that the canvas for 2 cubes is able to scrubb for about 4 cubes just by adjusting the flow?

 

[sensei]

I have 2 tanks where I use nothing but a 4x6 screen (2 cube/day scrubber)

I don't test that often, but I did recently and on one (my personal sumpless 120 w/about 90g effective water volume) N=0.5-1.0 (Salifert) and P=0.06 (hanna). This was pretty typical until about a month ago - a month before that (2 months ago) I added about 14 more fish (Anthias and cardinals) and about doubled my feeding. Nitrates went up, so to phosphates. I had to re-configure the scrubber (which sits on top of the tank) so that it could drain better and take a higher flow. I also did a PWC (20g, or about 25%) just because I wanted to start changing the salt brand and well I hadn't done a PWC in a few years...

Other tank is a 144, and that water tested N=0 P=0.02.

For both tanks, all I do is top off and clean the scrubber every 10-14 days and very little else. For both tanks, this has been pretty much my only maintenance regimen for coming up on 4 years. Besides the inevitable scraping the glass and cleaning the pumps/power heads every now and then.

On my tank, I feed a decent square (probably 2 sq in) of either LRS or a DIY food every day, and clean the scrubber every 10. On the other tank, it's about half that on feeding, and cleaning every 14 days.

Regarding pods, you will have millions of microscopic baby copepods that come off the screen, so cleaning and throwing away is no big deal IMO. You don't need a planted fuge to grow pods, a bunch of LR in your sump will become a pod colony.

another question:
would it be possible to adjust the scrubber in such a way to have a more elevated N and P level in your 144 tank??
my question comes becuase you say your levels in that tank are N=0 P=0.02, and lets suppose you have an sps dominated tank were you want to have a more elevated level of nutrients, let say N=5 and P= 0.05

please let me know what you think

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Leave it to Paul B

Here's a new method for making an algae scrubber screen that, IMO, could very well be a game changer.

It's pretty simple. Smear the screen with a thin coating of a standard mortar mix (like you use for building a brick wall) and then sandwich it between 2 piece of wax paper, and place a wet towel over it. A couple times/day, take the towel and wax paper off and spray it with water. Keep doing this for a few days, 2 or 3. The point is to not let the mortar dry, because you want it to cure instead.

Then, place the screen in water for a few days or a week or something, to soak out the lime and anything else. You're not using much mortar here so it's not a ton of stuff you have to worry about, it's just an extra step.

Now you're good to go. According to Paul, algae loves mortar. Algae does not have this love affair with plastic, which is why the plastic canvas (in most cases) takes a while to get started growing algae thick and well attached: the material has to "slime up" and then build up a layer of calcification or another material so that the algae can attach well.

So what happens is that algae will grow very quickly from the mortar. The mortar is not really permanent though, it will flake off as you clean the screen, but this is not relevant. The plastic canvas still has to go through the curing/maturing process for long-term growth, but while this is happening, you get good growth (and filtration!) from the mortar. Over time, growth will transition to the plastic canvas.

Now, my recommendation for preparing the screen is simple - it's what I do now for my "first stage" of roughing up. I use a wire brush drill bit (the center-crimp kind) and a good drill, running at a low to medium-low speed. I run the bit back and forth with only light pressure (I'm not pushing down and smashing the bit into the screen). I go left-right, then up-down, then diagonal, then the other diagonal. Flip the screen and repeat. That should be good enough for mortar now.

The 2nd stage of roughing that I do involves using a saw blade in small overlapping circles. I'm not sure this is necessary anymore, or maybe it's not just as critical.

I know what I'm doing this weekend...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Corrected saran wrap -> wax paper

 

[chema]

Hi Floyd: great post. I think I'm going to use it too prepare the screen I'm designing now.

Just a tip. If someone is worried about regular mortar, Nyos sells a great stuff to glue rocks. It is called Nyos Reef cement and it is absolutely reef safe. It cures very quickly so you want to prepare it pretty diluted to avoid it gets solid before applying the saran wrap layers.

 

[Spar]

Floyd, think it will be harder to get the algae off the mortar compared to plastic though?

Not sure I am following your "saw blade in small overlapping circles" comment...? I guess as you say it isn't critical anyway.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just a tip. If someone is worried about regular mortar, Nyos sells a great stuff to glue rocks. It is called Nyos Reef cement and it is absolutely reef safe.

I don't think cement and mortar are technically the same so that would probably not work.

Paul B made most of his DIY rock out of mortar. It's perfectly safe.

Floyd, think it will be harder to get the algae off the mortar compared to plastic though?

Probably but you are using the mortar sparingly and it will likely eventually all come off. Keep in mind that I have used just plastic canvas for years, so once the mortar comes off (it will probably crack and chip off wherever you bend the screen) then the algae will grow on the plastic. So you will start with most of the growth on the mortar, then the bare plastic that is there will start getting conditioned, and as bits of mortar come off via regular cleanings, more plastic is exposed and gets conditioned, and on until you are left with no mortar and a fully mature plastic-only screen.

Not sure I am following your "saw blade in small overlapping circles" comment...? I guess as you say it isn't critical anyway.

This!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-mrCWALt9Qs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VgG42A9GRPI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Spar]

thanks! I was picturing a circular table saw... not quite the same!

 

[sporazoa]

So what kind of algae is this growing on the scrubbers? Is some of this bryopsis?

 

[sporazoa]

Also, is there anyone who ran a fuge with macro algae at one time & a scrubber at another & what was the outcome? Was the scrubber a better performer?

 

[karimwassef]

If you mean the pond, it's a test tank for various abusive methods for upflows. There are videos about the units.

Abusive methods? Can you link some?

I'm intrigued by the mechanism by which the scrubber is providing pods and food for tangs.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So what kind of algae is this growing on the scrubbers? Is some of this bryopsis?

It can vary from tank to tank, usually it is a mixture of different types of growth. I've never seen bryopsis growing on a scrubber.

Also, is there anyone who ran a fuge with macro algae at one time & a scrubber at another & what was the outcome? Was the scrubber a better performer?

There have been many, the scrubber usually out-competes the fuge macro