Algae Scrubber Basics

[salty joe]

Yes, I thought about that too. Algae has always been around and it adapts well. But you also cannot fool mother nature. While it will grow in essentially any light, what we want is it to grow at it's maximum to minimize power useage and maximize effectiveness. At least, that's what I want!!!

Me too!






PAR is a measurement of quantum light. That is, is it a measure of the amount of raditaion per unit area and unit time. PAR meters eliminate the human factor, but if you want to measure the level of radiation at a specific wavelength, you're looking at a super-expensive meter. The basic PAR meters out there just measure the total PAR. So you could have tons of blue and no red and your PAR would look just fine, but you would be missing 1/2 of the spectrum.

I never considered that limitation to a PAR meter. Really good point.

But yes, algae is a plant, the difference is that it's not a flowering plant, and is likes certain conditions. What I find interesting is that one article that says natural sunlight is 80,000 lux and algae growth is best between 2,500 and 10,000 lux, and growth hinders at 15,000 lux. You don't see plants shriveling away because of too much sunlight though. So is there a difference in the requirements of plants versus algae or any aquatic macro for that matter?

Which brings me back to photoinhibition. Plants, including algae don't necessarily shrivel away from too much light so much as just really slow down. I suspect that the bald spots from a CFL being too close is from the lamp cooking the algae more than too much light. A CFL up close with a fan would be an interesting experiment. The link I posted way back shows Chaeto growing like crazy for about 4 hours under bright light and then photoinhibition occurs and growth drops like a rock. The article states that this is pretty much the case for other types of marine algae. When I get up and running, I'll have two large scrubbers and will start off with 100 W on each. First I'll have 3000K T5 on one and 6500K on the other. I'll run them 16 h on, 8 h off. I'll see which lamp works better. Then I'll alternate them 4 h on, 4 h off so that one of the scrubbers is always on. I'll see if the same lamp is still the winner. If so, I'll get all new lamps of the winning color and run one scrubber 16 h on, 8 h off and the other 4 h on, 4 h off and see which method gets the most growth. I won't be a bit surprised if 4 on 4 off grows more algae with less energy than the 16-8 scheme does. Anyway I'm sure this thread will still be going and I'll post results. If I'm lucky it will be this fall.

If algae is not a flowering plant, why assume that a 3000K lamp designed to promote flowering will grow algae better than a 6500K lamp designed to promote vegetative growth?


Concerning K color, you can have two different lamps with the same K color and each lamp could have a different spectral graph-different PAR. I think a spectral graph would tell us real quick what lamp is best. That little bit of info seems to be hard to come by thes days except for LEDs.

QUOTE]

 

[jake levi]

The ATS has come a long ways since I last looked at it, I am getting that it needs a 10 by 10" sq for each 100 gals? Doesnt seem hard to do, not at all, and ~ 100gph per 100 gallons?

Does it require seeding initially with the algae? I like the pod production as a side benefit.

 

[salty joe]

Floyd R Turbo "Is that you crawling around in my brain?"

Welcome to the Twilight Zone


http://www.bealecorner.org/best/measure/cf-spectrum/index.html

if you look down at the bottom of the page, it seems that the 2700k bulbs are heavy in the 545-555nm, 600-630nm, and a bit at the 480-490 range. Thats a Greenlite 2700k bulb, so it may be a bit different from what we are using, but it doesnt show that its "heavy" in dark reds. Cree makes a XPE red that hits about 627. But even if you got all the LED colors shown in the spectral graph of the XPE series, you are still missing 540-570nm roughly of the spectrum. Does it matter if thats what is missing??? I dont know but if you could get that spectrum in there, then maybe it wouldnt be so bad.

Getting the spectral graph ourselves looks doable. That's very cool.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

The ATS has come a long ways since I last looked at it, I am getting that it needs a 10 by 10" sq for each 100 gals? Doesnt seem hard to do, not at all, and ~ 100gph per 100 gallons?

Does it require seeding initially with the algae? I like the pod production as a side benefit.

posted incorrect information.. excuse this post. follow what apt220 said below. It's been a long day.

 

[apt220]

A 100g tank needs 10" x 10" screen lit on both sides with wattage ranging from 50 to 100W total depending on bioload. The 35 gallon per hour rule is for the width of the screen (ie slot length), not square inch. For example, if you had a 10" x 10" screen, you need at least 10" x 35 gph to it, which is 350 gph feeding the screen. If you had a 20" wide x 5" screen, you would need 20 x 35 gph = 700 gph.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

A 100g tank needs 10" x 10" screen lit on both sides with wattage ranging from 50 to 100W total depending on bioload. The 35 gallon per hour rule is for the width of the screen (ie slot length), not square inch. For example, if you had a 10" x 10" screen, you need at least 10" x 35 gph to it, which is 350 gph feeding the screen. If you had a 20" wide x 5" screen, you would need 20 x 35 gph = 700 gph.

Wow apt, what was I smoking when i typed that. you are correct.... But either a bigger screen or a brighter bulb will take care of bioload. Sometimes i wish i could just delete my posts.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

if you look down at the bottom of the page, it seems that the 2700k bulbs are heavy in the 545-555nm, 600-630nm, and a bit at the 480-490 range. Thats a Greenlite 2700k bulb, so it may be a bit different from what we are using, but it doesnt show that its "heavy" in dark reds. Cree makes a XPE red that hits about 627. But even if you got all the LED colors shown in the spectral graph of the XPE series, you are still missing 540-570nm roughly of the spectrum. Does it matter if thats what is missing??? I dont know but if you could get that spectrum in there, then maybe it wouldnt be so bad.

The reason algae looks green is because it doesn't absorb it. Much of what we measure for perception purposes is centered around 555nm. As you can see, this means there is wasted light from these sources. This indicates that if we tune out these bands, we can use less intense light (as far as power density is concerned) and get the same results.

Personally I think that algae not growing due to putting the lamps too close to the screen is because of intensity, not temperature. This is the problem with high-power LEDs.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

The reason algae looks green is because it doesn't absorb it. Much of what we measure for perception purposes is centered around 555nm. As you can see, this means there is wasted light from these sources. This indicates that if we tune out these bands, we can use less intense light (as far as power density is concerned) and get the same results.

Personally I think that algae not growing due to putting the lamps too close to the screen is because of intensity, not temperature. This is the problem with high-power LEDs.

Yeah, i know light seen is light reflected, not absorbed. Most of that spectrum i listed is mostly green, but there seems to be quite a bit of yellow still missing from what the LEDs are giving.

But i have to agree, them being too close will hinder any progress and the receptors will shut down. The person building their LED array a few pages back should really consider using a diffuser panel i decribed.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

On another forum it was suggested to use a diamond diffuser from Lowes, pretty cheap I guess, and doesn't cut down the light too badly.

 

[jake levi]

Thanks for posting the clarification, it looks more and more doable the more I look at it, DIY is way less expensive then Prof. Adeys product,

I am thinking a 20H would make a great ATS with proper lighting, a screen lit from one side ea

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

Thanks for posting the clarification, it looks more and more doable the more I look at it, DIY is way less expensive then Prof. Adeys product,

I am thinking a 20H would make a great ATS with proper lighting, a screen lit from one side ea

If you are factoring doable based on price, remember sometimes you get what you pay for. I think it's floyd's setup that is an acrylic case lit with 2 T5's on each side. Grows a ton of algae. My $20 setup, barealy grows over a couple centemeters on both sides. But my water parameters are perfect.

 

[phillyfishguy]

thats why I did a custom overflow with two 1.5 bulkheads and two 1 inch returns. I was planning on doing the ats and wanted the most flow I could get. I will try and get some pictures up

 

[jake levi]

Hi Odeth

right on about price, I am looking at small systems of about 150-200 gallons each with about ten tanks per, I think a 20H ATS, with the other filters would do a good job of keeping the low load systems stable. The T5 lights are probably the best way to go. The tanks will have 2-5 small fish ea, plus some live rock and soft corals and in line with the ATS is a deep gravel bed of crushed coral, first a sump to collect water from the tanks through pads to the ATS and then the coral filter from there to another sump and back to the tanks. So the ATS would have a significant role in the systems.

 

[phillyfishguy]

This is my overflow I built but I am making an acrylic top that is black with slots that can be removed to fit over the top of the glass. I hope this provides me with enough flow to the basement. sorry for the looks of my house I am in the middle of re-doing it or should I say doing it around my fish tanks lol

 

[travis32]

So, I have a question. I am using my marineland in sump return pump to fuel my ATS. it's rated at 340 to 475 gph. I have a 9ft hose (mostly horizontal, not much vertical feed) to the ATS plumbing.

With that said, if I have the flow at max, the it there's a lot of salt spray that makes it out of the enclosure and onto the lamps. Remember that thing about water an electricity not mixing. Yeah, I'm trying to avoid that issue.

So, I cut it back about half, and it still has a lot of splashing from the pipe as water sprays some what horizontally out of parts of the slit in the pipe. It hits the back of the enclosure then splashes out of the enclosure and onto things....

I cut it about only 30%-40% open. So, if it's 475gph (ideally) 30% - 40% of that is around: 142gph to 190gph.

My screen horizontally is 13.5" long. Vertically it's 9.5".

So, I'm not sure what I should have for flow?

I should add that my screen has a ton of algae on it in just 5 days!

 

[srusso]

So, I have a question. I am using my marineland in sump return pump to fuel my ATS. it's rated at 340 to 475 gph. I have a 9ft hose (mostly horizontal, not much vertical feed) to the ATS plumbing.

With that said, if I have the flow at max, the it there's a lot of salt spray that makes it out of the enclosure and onto the lamps. Remember that thing about water an electricity not mixing. Yeah, I'm trying to avoid that issue.

So, I cut it back about half, and it still has a lot of splashing from the pipe as water sprays some what horizontally out of parts of the slit in the pipe. It hits the back of the enclosure then splashes out of the enclosure and onto things....

I cut it about only 30%-40% open. So, if it's 475gph (ideally) 30% - 40% of that is around: 142gph to 190gph.

My screen horizontally is 13.5" long. Vertically it's 9.5".

So, I'm not sure what I should have for flow?

I should add that my screen has a ton of algae on it in just 5 days!

Lots of algae means your doing something right... Let's see sine pictures of the problem areas, and pictures of the 5 days of growth.

 

[travis32]

These are my screen at 5 days!
<a href="http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/?action=view&current=1300317406725.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/1300317406725.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/?action=view&current=1300317431124.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/1300317431124.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/?action=view&current=1300317418975.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/1300317418975.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[srusso]

These are my screen at 5 days!
<a href="http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/?action=view&current=1300317406725.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/1300317406725.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/?action=view&current=1300317431124.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/1300317431124.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/?action=view&current=1300317418975.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/ss134/SchnauzerWauzer/Saltwater%20Aquarium/Sump/1300317418975.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

That is all brown algae right? I know you want to just let it grow, but allow the scrubber to do it's thing. Clean the scrubber under some running tap water and just wipe the algae off with your hand. Clean everything off that you can. While brown algae continues the screen should be clean every 3 days. This stage happens for most people for a week or, so...

 

[Dave1NC]

Here's my ATS

Here's my ATS

I was able to salvage a bunch of extra PVC pieces, lights, etc. to build my scrubber. I believe my system will be more of a supplement to my existing reef versus a replacement for the Biopellets.

Here is the stuff I already had.

Two 1" ball valves
Two 1" unions
Two 1" Tees
Four Clip-on lights
Holesaw
Hack saw
Dremmel
Lamp Timer

Purchased:
Two 12x18" screens at the craft store
Two hang-on lights at Lowes
One 3/4" inch 12 FT PVC pipe
Two 1 to 3/4" reducing elbows
Two 3/4" slip end caps
Eighteen 60W soft white bulbs. I am only going to be using 5, but may eventually add more.


My decided to use two full screens 12x18 inches. I hope to have algae growing on both sides.

Here are some before/after pics:

I posted this pic before. It shows my plumbing and how it is connected to the SCWD. It appears I am no longer getting alternate flow which I don't think will inhibit the ATS at all. I need to probably clean it again at some point"¦ I may end up just removing the guts of the unit and make it a standard return.

The light in the middle is approx 4 inches from both screens. I'll eventually add a second light. I want to see how much growth I get on both before adding it though.

When I aded the lighting I followed the guidelines from AlgaeSrubber.doc. I am going to eventually setup a something a little cleaner to mount the lights on. Hopefully something a little less sloppy looking and do some cable management.

I also took some videos of the scrubber in action. It appears I already have some worms on the screen. The pics mainly show the flow and how I ended up plumbing it. I like the idea of using Unions to connect the screen to the 3/4" pipe. The water is coming directly from my return, but have the water going directly into the last 2 chambers of my sump.

One area is my bubble trap and the other is over the return back to the DT. I am hoping this will send the good stuff to the fish and corals.





I'll take some pics in a couple of more pics or vidoes in a few days so everyone can check out the algae growth.

 

[srusso]

Great build! That should be a great scrubber so long the lights are about 4" inches away. What size tank?

I was able to salvage a bunch of extra PVC pieces, lights, etc. to build my scrubber. I believe my system will be more of a supplement to my existing reef versus a replacement for the Biopellets.

Here is the stuff I already had.

Two 1" ball valves
Two 1" unions
Two 1" Tees
Four Clip-on lights
Holesaw
Hack saw
Dremmel
Lamp Timer

Purchased:
Two 12x18" screens at the craft store
Two hang-on lights at Lowes
One 3/4" inch 12 FT PVC pipe
Two 1 to 3/4" reducing elbows
Two 3/4" slip end caps
Eighteen 60W soft white bulbs. I am only going to be using 5, but may eventually add more.


My decided to use two full screens 12x18 inches. I hope to have algae growing on both sides.

Here are some before/after pics:

I posted this pic before. It shows my plumbing and how it is connected to the SCWD. It appears I am no longer getting alternate flow which I don't think will inhibit the ATS at all. I need to probably clean it again at some point"¦ I may end up just removing the guts of the unit and make it a standard return.

The light in the middle is approx 4 inches from both screens. I'll eventually add a second light. I want to see how much growth I get on both before adding it though.

When I aded the lighting I followed the guidelines from AlgaeSrubber.doc. I am going to eventually setup a something a little cleaner to mount the lights on. Hopefully something a little less sloppy looking and do some cable management.

I also took some videos of the scrubber in action. It appears I already have some worms on the screen. The pics mainly show the flow and how I ended up plumbing it. I like the idea of using Unions to connect the screen to the 3/4" pipe. The water is coming directly from my return, but have the water going directly into the last 2 chambers of my sump.

One area is my bubble trap and the other is over the return back to the DT. I am hoping this will send the good stuff to the fish and corals.





I'll take some pics in a couple of more pics or vidoes in a few days so everyone can check out the algae growth.