SantaMonica
Well-known member
Probably have nutrients in the rock that is coming out, to have that much growth so soon.
Algae Scrubber Basics
- Thread starter srusso
- Start date
Wally.B
Active member
I have a question. Has this happened to anyone putting an Algae Scrubber into their system. (Possibly oversized, or running ON too long)?
I built a DIY scrubber. Built into a section of a custom built sump. Runs on the Sump Return flow.
It's running very well after the screen matured past the slime algae stage.
This is a SPS only 65GAL tank (5 fish, all small SPS Frags), and ALL my SPS corals started having color loss & tissue recession.
All parameters ideal/stable.
Is it possible the scrubber has too drastically reduced the nutrients in my tank? Kind of like going ULNS with Zeovit.
Should a scrubber be brought online slowly? (ie Scrubber PhotoPeriod)
I built a DIY scrubber. Built into a section of a custom built sump. Runs on the Sump Return flow.
It's running very well after the screen matured past the slime algae stage.
This is a SPS only 65GAL tank (5 fish, all small SPS Frags), and ALL my SPS corals started having color loss & tissue recession.
All parameters ideal/stable.
Is it possible the scrubber has too drastically reduced the nutrients in my tank? Kind of like going ULNS with Zeovit.
Should a scrubber be brought online slowly? (ie Scrubber PhotoPeriod)
Wally.B
Active member
I'll check again, but last week:
NO3=5.0 ppm (Salifert Test Kit)
P04=0.021 ppm (Hanna Phosphorus Kit)
ALK[7.5] CALC[425] MAG[1170,just raised to 1275] SAL[1.025]
jrp1588
New member
I started seeing very similar issues in my SPS tank around the time I put my ATS online. I have a hard time believing they're directly related though.I have a question. Has this happened to anyone putting an Algae Scrubber into their system. (Possibly oversized, or running ON too long)?
I built a DIY scrubber. Built into a section of a custom built sump. Runs on the Sump Return flow.
It's running very well after the screen matured past the slime algae stage.
This is a SPS only 65GAL tank (5 fish, all small SPS Frags), and ALL my SPS corals started having color loss & tissue recession.
All parameters ideal/stable.
Is it possible the scrubber has too drastically reduced the nutrients in my tank? Kind of like going ULNS with Zeovit.
Should a scrubber be brought online slowly? (ie Scrubber PhotoPeriod)
Wally.B
Active member
Why not?
This section from the Zeovit Manaul led me to post this question here.
It is important not toexceed this recommended amount,
because excessive amounts of ZEOvit® could have anegative effect on SPS corals and lead to tissue necrosis and therefore coral death.
Signs of overdose are tissue loss starting from the coral tips or the complete
loss of all tissue within a short period of time (i.e., rapid tissue necrosis, RTN).
This problem occurs usually because of the rapid change in nutrient conditions in the tank.
As mentioned above, corals need time to adapt to changes and an overdose does not allow for gradual changes.
A scrubber reduces nutrients. Does it not?
I think I need to slow down my scrubber (for a gentler nutrient reduction). It's running too well at this point. (but it may be too late).
I thinking less LED on time is one way, since I can't control my flowrate. (The Scurbber is just an passthru section in my Sump from my return [Upflow Design])
I think I went into Instant Overdrive, since I matured my screens during the sump build (with a big fish in sump). Once I proved it worked, I decided it was ready for tank.
So when I flipped this Sump/Scrubber on my tank, it was humming too well (didn't go thru screen maturing stage slowly).
And...Since the New Sump (well designed), replaced a plain old Rubbermaid Tub Sump.
I did a "One-Two Punch Quick Nutrient Drop" on my tank, since all filtration improved (Skimmer running better too).
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jrp1588
New member
The symptoms are consistent, but I really don't think my nutrients dropped all that much. I think I had ~30 nitrate before, and now I have 5-10. This drop happened months ago, and the decline has been a gradual ongoing thing. I would have expected them to bounce back by now. That being said, I bought my skimmer fully broken in and growing mature algae, so I hit the ground running.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Do either of you guys run GAC and/or a skimmer?
jrp1588
New member
I run a pretty good skimmer, but don't tend to run gac. I did throw a bit in the other day after reading about algae possibly releasing unfriendly chemicals into the water.
jason2459
Well-known member
Zeovit is also about taking nutrients down to near 0. Which would stress the corals and cause them to bleach or go pale. RTN is very possible at those extremely low levels (ULNS) if Alk is even at a moderate level which is why they try and push alk down under 8.
But nitrates at 5 and phosphates at .02 is perfectly fine. And even if they did drop to near 0 your Alk is at a low enough level to help.
But nitrates at 5 and phosphates at .02 is perfectly fine. And even if they did drop to near 0 your Alk is at a low enough level to help.
SantaMonica
Well-known member
Scrubbers slow down automatically when nutrients get low, because they use the same photosynthetic apparatus that corals do to grow. So they self-correct.
Chemicals like zeovit don't slow down, because they are not a living system and don't react the same way to low nutrients.
Chemicals like zeovit don't slow down, because they are not a living system and don't react the same way to low nutrients.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
^ this, exactly! The same applies, essentially, to any media like GFO, phosban, etc, as well as some carbon dosing strategies.
It still doesn't explain the RTN/STN issue through, so something else must be in play
No, I was going to suggest that you use it actually. So there goes that suggestion....
Wally.B
Active member
There is one other suspicion I have for my sudden change.
I did put in a "reflector mirror" at the back of the one sided Scrubber (across from the LED panel).
After this tissue loss issue, I discovered that mirrors have a layer of Silver, and Copper in them, coated in waterproof paint.
Plus that mirror is sealed very well in silicone (especially the cut edges).
So to confirm a possible copper contamination I tested the tank for Copper (that result was clean 0.00mg/L).
Then I soaked (scrap raw piece of mirror in salt water, not sealed) for a few days. I did notice a bit of corrosion at the edges which worried me.
But that test came back clean too. (Maybe the slightest shade change in test result. Not visible to my eyes, but a photograph picked up a little difference. But nothing close to any Lowest shade of blue on test strip which would be below 0.15 mg/L of Copper in the tank).
To be safe, will remove the mirror (but that will be a task!!)
I did put in a "reflector mirror" at the back of the one sided Scrubber (across from the LED panel).
After this tissue loss issue, I discovered that mirrors have a layer of Silver, and Copper in them, coated in waterproof paint.
Plus that mirror is sealed very well in silicone (especially the cut edges).
So to confirm a possible copper contamination I tested the tank for Copper (that result was clean 0.00mg/L).
Then I soaked (scrap raw piece of mirror in salt water, not sealed) for a few days. I did notice a bit of corrosion at the edges which worried me.
But that test came back clean too. (Maybe the slightest shade change in test result. Not visible to my eyes, but a photograph picked up a little difference. But nothing close to any Lowest shade of blue on test strip which would be below 0.15 mg/L of Copper in the tank).
To be safe, will remove the mirror (but that will be a task!!)
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Wally.B
Active member
This is good to know (However don't zeolites slow down when nutrients low?). My concern wasn't about reducing Nutrients, but reducing them quickly.
I reduced scrubber photo period, but will crank it back up (after observing for a little bit).
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SantaMonica
Well-known member
Algae does not reduce them quickly; they can only grow so fast. They are slow compared to chemicals.
Other chemicals can slow down too as nutrients lessen, but they have different end points.
Your copper test probably would not show anything, because any trace copper would get picked up by organisms first.
Other chemicals can slow down too as nutrients lessen, but they have different end points.
Your copper test probably would not show anything, because any trace copper would get picked up by organisms first.
Wally.B
Active member
All I am trying to do is determine a cause for my SPS necrosis, since may things are as before (stable water parameter, circulation, temp, no change in lighting, etc).
All I have to go with is I added a new sump with a very efficient algae scrubber.
One suspicion I have is the rapid nutrition loss theory, based on the amount of algae I'm getting daily (Scrubber is removing a Lot of something from tank. I'm no expert what.). I can't measure nutrients/organics, even though I got a Salifert Organic Test Kit a which only show extreme ends [No scale], (so no evidence there).
A second theory I have is the fact that I simply replaced a very mature Rubbermaid sump, with a clean glass sump, and it will take time to build up biological maturity on surfaces. However with a pile of live rocks in Mature Tank and a wall of ceramic bioballs from previous sump, place in this new sump, it's probably not the cause. (Plus no spike on any test kits)
This has left me suspicous about the mirror and a possible copper contamination. However tests kit says there isn't any at this point, but maybe there was at a point as some early corrosion happened. What leads me against the copper theory is my cleaner shrimp (invertebrate) is still alive. I've personally seen how quickly inverts die when copper is introduced into a tank. (However maybe SPS Corals are more sensitive, and a very slow Copper leach is damaging them). If I had some LPS/SOFT Corals, there would be something to compare, but I don't, and never will in this tank. (Other tank has everything BUT SPS).
So to totally eliminate my Copper Mirror suspicion (so I can sleep well) this should help. Even if you say that organisms have absorbed the copper, and assuming the mirror is no longer leaching Copper.
- Basically using a left over piece of same mirror used in Algae Scrubber.
- Clean Fresh SALT Water with nothing to absorb copper (except bucket, and pump)
- Will run this washing machine for a few days, and see how much mirror corrodes and if copper shows up on test kit.
- If nothing (I'll even scratch the mirror backing up and run again)
- If nothing again I can move on to other theories, and put this Sump/Scrubber off my check list.
This is no big deal, since all corals are just small SPS frags. So waiting to have a stable/safe system (Algae Free Display Tank), before taking on more expensive SPS frags for the long term.
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SantaMonica
Well-known member
If you changed sumps, you had to move all that material, which changed flow patterns and caused die-off of lots of the filter feeders.
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