Algae Turf Scrubber ?

[herring_fish]

On the other hand, while freely admitting that he doesn't have a lot of direct experience with an ATS , every time Randy chimes in, I learn something that I do need to know.

I'm glad to see you back. I hope that you took my comment as the complement that it was intended to be. "¦not back handed at all. I read most of the article that you pointed us to. It happened to be what I was interested in just that week. Thanks

Also, what is FO and GAC? I guess that the C is carbon.

Now for an honest question, although rhetorical; will a skimmer remove yellowing by it's self.

 

[herring_fish]

On the other hand, while freely admitting that he doesn't have a lot of direct experience with an ATS , every time Randy chimes in, I learn something that I do need to know.

I’m glad to see you back. I hope that you took my comment as the complement that it was intended to be. …not back handed at all. I read most of the article that you pointed us to. It happened to be what I was interested in just that week. Thanks

Also, what is FO and GAC? I guess that the C is carbon.

Now for an honest question, although rhetorical; will a skimmer remove yellowing by it’s self.

 

[Amphiprion]

On the other hand, while freely admitting that he doesn't have a lot of direct experience with an ATS , every time Randy chimes in, I learn something that I do need to know.

I'm glad to see you back. I hope that you took my comment as the complement that it was intended to be. "¦not back handed at all. I read most of the article that you pointed us to. It happened to be what I was interested in just that week. Thanks

Also, what is FO and GAC? I guess that the C is carbon.

Now for an honest question, although rhetorical; will a skimmer remove yellowing by it's self.

Randy can give a more detailed explanation, but skimmers aren't normally very good at removing yellowing compounds at all.

 

[jenglish]

Also, what is FO and GAC? I guess that the C is carbon.

Now for an honest question, although rhetorical; will a skimmer remove yellowing by it's self.

FO usually represents Fish only set up
GAC= Granulated activated carbon.


To be honest I have only used GAC to remove yellowing, and am not sure how a skimmer would be at removing gelbstoff (yellowing agents).

 

[Mounda]

It has been argued that the yellowing is due to cleaning the scrubber while it was in place.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A skimmer will help reduce yellowing. GAC will help, and may be more effective than skimming if you use enough based on recent data I've seen (at least with respect to total organics, not just yellow ones).

Even with skimming and GAC being used, ozone can reduce yellowness of the water still further.

I hope that you took my comment as the complement that it was intended to be. …not back handed at all.

No problem. Thanks.

 

[Mounda]

A skimmer will help reduce yellowing. GAC will help, and may be more effective than skimming if you use enough based on recent data I've seen (at least with respect to total organics, not just yellow ones).

Even with skimming and GAC being used, ozone can reduce yellowness of the water still further.

I hope that you took my comment as the complement that it was intended to be. "¦not back handed at all.

No problem. Thanks.

How much is "enough" ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Depends on the tank and type of carbon.

I'd recommend about 1 cup per 100 gallons, changed every 2-4 weeks.

 

[herring_fish]

Thats what I use only I need to change it more often.

I went to the Smithsonian exhibit in the late 90's and got a tour of the facility behind the glass. They told be that Julian Sprong took the same tour and felt that the only think that was missing was the use of carbon so that is when I started using it.

I believe that Dr. Adey's paradigm is flexible. He likes things to be as natural as possible so he likes to promote plankton in the system. Therefore a refugium is Ok and so is running carbon as long as the water is not pumped directly through the carbon because it would be a trap for it.

 

[jenglish]

It has been argued that the yellowing is due to cleaning the scrubber while it was in place.

You certainly get more yellowing by cleaning it in place. But you still get some by running an ATS. You get some by the fact that all tanks are going to have algae and be releasing gelbstoff as cells break down.

 

[Mounda]

Ok so after some reading on GAC apparently not all carbons are created equally. Those that are of lignite origin are the most efficient and those that are of coconut origin or are pellets are the least effective.

A lot of literature suggests using the carbon on and off instead of using it continuously because carbon tends to absorb trace elements and leech phosphate.

As far as how much, generally about 3 level tablespoons of GAC per 50 gallons of actual tank water volume should be sufficient to keep a saltwater aquarium or reef tank system color free.

 

[jenglish]

IMO BRS has the best carbon for the money. Of brands you find at a LFS, marineland black diamond is pretty good. Good carbon should not leech PO4 unless it is saturated. In general carbon binds organics well and non-organics pretty poorly. I would not worry about it stripping elements out of the water. I only run it periodically because I am cheap and it can clog with particles causing pollution, at least the way I have it running currently.

 

[Amphiprion]

A skimmer will help reduce yellowing. GAC will help, and may be more effective than skimming if you use enough based on recent data I've seen (at least with respect to total organics, not just yellow ones).

I've just noticed and confirmed the same over time, even with protein skimming, that yellowing does occur in my own system (even before I used an ATS), as well as others I've observed. It can help, but doesn't prevent it in many situations. The carbon was always far more effective in those instances. Of course, this was all using the "white paper" method (and is limited to my perception) and I'm sure there are many variables involved in which tanks yellow more and the rate in which they do so.

 

[Mounda]

Since Algal scrubbers export nutrients and some people out there have been able to run their systems without skimmers then could you use a smaller skimmer than you normally would on a system without an algal scrubber ?

For example running an ATS and a skimmer rated for a 100-150g on a 200g system ? In theory shouldn't that work since the ATS is already doing part of the job ?

 

[Amphiprion]

Since Algal scrubbers export nutrients and some people out there have been able to run their systems without skimmers then could you use a smaller skimmer than you normally would on a system without an algal scrubber ?

For example running an ATS and a skimmer rated for a 100-150g on a 200g system ? In theory shouldn't that work since the ATS is already doing part of the job ?

That would work fine. I already run a relatively large skimmer on my 40g in addition to a scrubber. Just remember the two tend to do different things--with some of the end results being the same.

 

[Mounda]

That would work fine. I already run a relatively large skimmer on my 40g in addition to a scrubber. Just remember the two tend to do different things--with some of the end results being the same.

You are running the opposite of what I want to do, a relatively smaller skimmer on a larger system.

 

[Amphiprion]

You are running the opposite of what I want to do, a relatively smaller skimmer on a larger system.

I know. I was just giving my circumstances as an example. There are plenty of folks who don't use a skimmer at all. A smaller, underrated one is fine to use as well. I was trying to indicate that the full continuum is okay to use .

 

[Mounda]

I think I'll get a small cone, not small just rated at 180-200 and my upgraded system would be a 250g one. I'll run a big ATS and a slightly smaller skimmer, I should be fine. Nothing's set in stone.

 

[herring_fish]

So how big is your tank Mounda? Your general theory sounds good to this non-expert. The details will be proven out in your experiment. You should have the freedom to raise or lower the use time and power rating of each until you find the balance that works for you.

 

[Mounda]

I'm working on a 100g mixed reef system (DT 70g, sump 30g) at the moment, will attempt to use the ATS alone to cycle my LR and see what happens from there(experimenting). I'm getting my protein skimmer shipped internationally next month - Super reef octopus XP2000 cone skimmer so no need to wait for the skimmer to start cycling. This skimmer should work wonders on my 100g system but the real challenge is when I upgrade to the 250 system within the next 12 months I hope (new house, got bored waiting to move so I started a small tank due to space with the same equipment for the big system).

In theory my plan should work flawlessly if I implement the ATS right after all the ATS and skimmer primarily have the same function; exporting unwanted nutrients and wanted nutrients as far as skimmers go.

I'm almost finished with my tank stand(DIY), getting my pre drilled glass within the next few days. Build thread going up soon.