ALK question

[sirrealism]

Is anyone running there ALK over 11. i have been fighting mag and Alk issues. well now the mag is getting there 1250 yesterday but my alk really took off and is at 11.5 Should I be worried? I use RSCP and that Alk is 12 so doing water changes is not going to help get it down. I see most keeping theres at 8-8.5. Also now my cal that has been very stable has dropped. So I have been dosing that heavy and it hardly moves. It was 410 then droped to 320 now I have it about 370. I have dosed so much cal that I ended up with some precipitation. Not bad but I had to slow down. My corals have never looked so good and they are growing much faster then ever before. I have a feeling that low mag and alk keeps corals from being able to use cal. Any thoughts?

 

[aguila88psi]

High alk yeilds increase skeletel growth of sps/lps however may cause sps tip burn, dosing Iodine does help reduce sps tip burn but can cause other issues. I used to keep my alk at 12 but now can't get it past 8.5 lol, I'll need to upgrade to a calcium reactor or add kalk reactor to further increase alk/cal supplimentation.

 

[sirrealism]

Thanks Pedro. I stopped dosing alk and am sure it will go down. When it gets down to 9 or so I will start dosing Alk again

 

[ChadRaay86]

9 is a good number for alk in general. I find I have the most success with keeping all three in check with my alk at 8.9-10. I tend to have a yoyo effect if I try and maintain 11.

Also, once you get your mag locked in, you'll figure out what level of alk works best for your tank Calc reactor is in the future for me as well, I'm thinking GEO 818

 

[janes_mw]

might look at salt as part of solution as well. RS blue bucket is lower in Alk. I run Zeo and most run at 7-8 in the ULNS, but if you can keep 8-9 is where I have had best luck. But, it is different for everyone while keeping the top three stable . Keep consistent with what ever you dose for three part (Mag, CA, ALK) and don't jump all over the map. Takes time to get consistent readings and if something jumps drastically, wait a few days and a few measurements before jumping off the deep end. You can get into an action reaction type of senerio which will have you chasing your tail in a knot!!

 

[rogergolf66]

Well first off u need a salt with number close to what your goal parameters are. I would first switch salts or plan on maintaining high alk as that salt is. The calcium drop can be from the mag being low. It can also be from the imbalance between alk and calcium. Get the 2 balanced randy holmes as a balance calculator for alk and calcium.

So get mag where u want and stable. Then deside where u want the main 3 levels to be then find a salt that has those levels. From there if dosed balance always you should be good from there on out.

Roger

 

[sirrealism]

Roger and everyone else. Thank you. Roger I have a question. I know you use RSCP or at least you did. The alk in RSCP is 12. If your statement that you just made is true then your contradicting yourself. You are the only reefer I know that posts they parameters "which is very cool". I notice that for the last few months that your alk is never up where you want. Its close but always under. Is this the reason for using RSCP?
I understand that keeping your numbers stable is key. This all started with very low Mag at 950. Alk 5.5 cal 420. I started bring up mag and alk. The Mag just moved very slow. I know I could bring it up 100 per day. I was fighting to get the mag to move 10-20 A day. I have been through close to 5 lbs to get my numbers to 1250 over a month. During this same time I was raising my Alk which was not moving fast until my Mag came up. then it jumped. When it jumped my Cal dropped down to 320 but as I said my corals are really growing all of the sudden. I just want to get my numbers stable. when I do I am going to use Kalk in top of water to help keep them up. One note I am having all of these issues with a 40b. Very full of Frag racks and I am out of space. My zoas are puttiing out 1-5 heads per week. I really have to frag and sell. So I cannot complain about growth and color. When My mag was so low there was almost no growth. I thought it was the D120 over the tank.
Brant

 

[rogergolf66]

Roger and everyone else. Thank you. Roger I have a question. I know you use RSCP or at least you did. The alk in RSCP is 12. If your statement that you just made is true then your contradicting yourself. You are the only reefer I know that posts they parameters "which is very cool". I notice that for the last few months that your alk is never up where you want. Its close but always under. Is this the reason for using RSCP?
I understand that keeping your numbers stable is key. This all started with very low Mag at 950. Alk 5.5 cal 420. I started bring up mag and alk. The Mag just moved very slow. I know I could bring it up 100 per day. I was fighting to get the mag to move 10-20 A day. I have been through close to 5 lbs to get my numbers to 1250 over a month. During this same time I was raising my Alk which was not moving fast until my Mag came up. then it jumped. When it jumped my Cal dropped down to 320 but as I said my corals are really growing all of the sudden. I just want to get my numbers stable. when I do I am going to use Kalk in top of water to help keep them up. One note I am having all of these issues with a 40b. Very full of Frag racks and I am out of space. My zoas are puttiing out 1-5 heads per week. I really have to frag and sell. So I cannot complain about growth and color. When My mag was so low there was almost no growth. I thought it was the D120 over the tank.
Brant

Ok I did use RSCP salt about 15 months ago only one 200 gal bag then a switched to RC regular because the RSCP alk was to high. As far as my alk being lower then goal yes it has. I don't worry about anything from 7.5 to 8.5 with a goal of 8.2. As you said stable is my goal so I test weekly.

No doubt when u have low mag then get it back up growth will explode.

So not contradicting my self as my new salt mixes is at 7.8 alk, 435, cal, mag 1280 ph 8.2 and my goal parameters are posted under this post and they are very close to the salt I am using. I would like to switch to ESV but it is pricy since I have a large water volume of just over 240 total gallons.

Roger

 

[Ted_C]

He doesn't use the coral pro - he uses the red sea regular salt. That mixes to around 7-8 dkH (depending on salinity).

I think switching salts in an established system is one of the worst things you can do. Like everyone says, stability is the key. Switching salts or changing your goals for the Alk, Ca and Mg creates a changing system. Exactly what you dont want.

I have no hard and fast evidence or studies to back this up - just my own experience. I got sucked into the marketing gimmick of red sea and their "total program." Soon after switching (from isntant ocean) - i started having nothing but problems in my tank until the eventual crash. There's any number of other possible reasons for my crash - and I dont attribute it the salt change alone. I count it as a contributing factor.

The main thing you really need to look at is what caused your imbalance in the first place? What was the event that drove your Mg so low? I'm thinking its not just coral growth that caused it. I'm thinking you've tried two part solutions to try to dose your system back into balance.

Think of it this way - all salts mix up to the randy holmes farley balanced graph (or it should and if it doesn't then it was probably a bad choice). So what happened that made one of the elements fall out of balance? If your high in Alk - then the Ca and Mg should also mix high.

Dosing to correct the problem is not the correct solution either. Dosing single elements like Ca, Alk and Mg is not "saltwater." Yea - it may contain Na, Ca, Mg, CO3, Cl, SO4, etc - which are the major components of saltwater - but if you have to overdose Ca to chase low calcium numbers - then you are also driving up the Cl concentration (without the corresponding addition of Na to keep it in the correct balance).

The only way I know of to fix the imbalance is massive water changes with the correct salinity so you change out near 100% of your water in a short period of time. This was a limiting factor in my system because of my saltwater mixing methods. It just couldn't be done with my set-up and manual production of ro/di and manual mixing.

Your goal should be to have the saltwater in your tank exactly match the parameters of your mixed up saltwater without using dosing between water changes as a means to correct inbalances.

 

[sirrealism]

Roger. Please understand i was not trying to trying to show a flaw in your methods. I remember when you had said you were using RSCP and did not no you had switched. My bad. I will be going back to RS regular. I agree the ALK is very high in RSCP. As far as using ESV which I have never used, I would think having to add multi parts to the mix would be a pain but if its that good it might be worth it.
Ted I understand where you are coming from. But I hate the idea of doing massive water changes. Not for cost or the ability to do it because I can. I make RODI water at about 7g per hour. Its the issue of changing that much could "and knowing me" would send my system in to a recycle. The system I am having the issues with is a total of about 50g. Now I would have no problem changing out 5g per day for a month but massive changes I would not be comfortable with

 

[rogergolf66]

Roger. Please understand i was not trying to trying to show a flaw in your methods. I remember when you had said you were using RSCP and did not no you had switched. My bad. I will be going back to RS regular. I agree the ALK is very high in RSCP. As far as using ESV which I have never used, I would think having to add multi parts to the mix would be a pain but if its that good it might be worth it.
Ted I understand where you are coming from. But I hate the idea of doing massive water changes. Not for cost or the ability to do it because I can. I make RODI water at about 7g per hour. Its the issue of changing that much could "and knowing me" would send my system in to a recycle. The system I am having the issues with is a total of about 50g. Now I would have no problem changing out 5g per day for a month but massive changes I would not be comfortable with

No worries at all. I do agree with Ted in the water change idea since u only have 50 gal of water. I would probably do 20% changes every 3-5 days with the new salt. This would be safest way to fix issues. For some reason I thought u had a large tank. Maybe it was just that u have alot of tanks.

Either way good luck. As far as ur zoa fragging I want some frags of anything I don't already have

 

[aguila88psi]

Did someone say zoa frag swap???!!!

 

[sirrealism]

Will do roger

 

[sirrealism]

LOL ya I need to get on the ball and start fraging

 

[Ted_C]

Yes - if your switching salts - then massive water changes to get to 100% changed in a short amount of time is a bad idea. That would be too much of a shock in too short a time. My reccomendations were aligned to using the same salt mix and correcting the imbalances.

Going into a recycle is not going (should not) happen. The biologicals that consume the ammonia and nitrates should be locked into the substrate (rocks and/or sand) - not 100% free floating in the water.

The advantage of using ESV salt over other mixes is (at least how it was explained to me by John): there's nothing added to the components of ESV to make it work. Red Sea and Instant Ocean need to use "additives" to prevent Calcium Carbonate precipitation and to allow for the overabundance of Alkalinity in their salt mixes (and to maintain a dry mix that can be added to water).