am I overstocked?

[ejrabekoff]

I have a 150g FOWLR steup with a Freedom Filter, and a Fluval 405 canister filter, and 136 lbas of live rock. I am thinking about getting the following

Zebra moray, do I have enough liv rock to keep it happy?
Lionfish
Panther grouper
Kole tang
Humu trigger.

Is this overstocked? If it is, will it be fixed by just removing the panther grouper, or humu trigger? Can I just take out the zebra moray?

 

[FishyMel]

Yes, but the problem can be fixed by adding not subtracting. You need to add a protein skimmer and then you will be overstocked no more!

 

[lfduty]

It dont look overstocked to me. Haw big is your sump/fuge and protein skimmer ????

 

[LauraCline]

Nice list. I would ditch both the filters, get a massive skimmer, and replace the panther grouper with something that looks more attractive as an adult and also adds some more color to your tank. They are fugly and boring as adults imo - brown and huge. Plus as fast as they grow it could end up eating some tankmates. What about another type of grouper, a harlequin tusk, another tang, or an angel? Also the humu might pick at the lion's fins so keep an eye out for that.

 

[mattsilvester]

I'm becomming the crank in the corner as far as this forum is concerned.........

Zebra moray - the rock needs to be arranged to provide him with a nice retreat.... and then stuck together using plenty of epoxy etc, because when big, these guys are easily as strong as your arm.....

Lionfish - in my view its a bad idea keeping a lionfish and a moray together - in all liklihood the moray will eventually swim into the lionfishes spines..... they are blind and go a bit nuts when food is added.... the lionfishes instinct when threated is to erect spines and stay still...... so in my view, I think you should pick one or the other.

Panther Grouper - too big and immensely ugly when mature..... I've seen these guys 30" plus...... even at 12-15" he would be horribly stunted and much too big for your tank - especailyl given the tankmates.

Kole tang - a bit small initially to be housed with the three previsouly mentioned species..... if you got a big one, and the others were small, it should be ok.

Huma trigger (a.k.a. Picasso) - nice fish - best choice on your list for a 150.

Your question - will you be overstocked - in my view yes. It will be biologically overstocked unless you invest heavily in massive amounts of filtration and do weekly 25%+ water cahgnes..... even then, you'd be looking a chucking in a cupful of meaty food on a weekly basis....... in my view, no way......

Equally as important, I just don't think these fish will physically fit into a 5' tank........ seriously.... before you add any rock..... the moray is gonna be about 3' long and a couple of inches girth.... the lionfish is gonna be like a 12" diameter ball with spines out, the panther grouper will big enough to make a decent meal for a large hungry man (go to the fish market and look at a 12-14" white snapper), the trigger will get as big as an average humans foot, and then little Kole tang swimming around in the middle...... now you've gotta build a mountain of rock for the moray to hide in..... I'm sorry, but no way is my honest opinion.

My advise / opinion would be to ditch the grouper and the lion, retain the moray, trigger and tang, and look to include something one other nice sized, colourful fish - like maybe a harlequin tusk, a navarchus angel, maybe another tang or something like that....... if you ditch the moray and keep the lion, then you might get away with two of these alternatives........

so for the negative reply, and as always, its just my opnion

 

[LisaD]

I think Matt makes some good points, but I am a little less negative about it. I have had a large zebra moray in a 5 foot tank for at least 5 years (and it was in another tank prior to that).

In my experience --

zebra moray is fine with rock, just get biggish pieces and have comfortable (big enough) areas in which it can hide. pvc under rock or sand is a possibility (though I don't use it). clumsiness can be a problem if you have corals and a ZM knocks a coral off a rock, but in most FOWLR, no problem

lionfish - zebra morays do fine with lions, and I would expect no stinging/biting incidents. consider a medium sized lion rather than a volitan. there are several nice species to choose from.

totally agree with Matt on the panther grouper. there are much better choices.

 

[ejrabekoff]

When I posted this, I thought I was overstocked. I was just looking for the best combination of fish options. Is there a tang that is bigger, easy to keep, and pretty? Is a harlequin tusk fish easy to keep? I am trying to stay away from angels, because they are so particular, but they would be very pretty in this tank. Is there one that is hardy, and will eat?

 

[FishyMel]

Angels are very fragile fish and I don't recommend them for beginners. I personally in my first days of fishkeeping crashed my tank with angels. H. Tusks are pretty, and hardy and a great fish for anyone. As for the tang I think a Kole would be fine is gotten at an extra large size. Matt was correct about the lion stinging the eel, but I had a lion and an eel and eels don't seem too bothered when stung. I have found the eel will just get the welt but still behave normally. You could keep a miniatus grouper, those are really beautiful and a much better option for a 150.

 

[bsagecko]

get rid of the grouper and the lionfish in my opinion.

I know alot of people who have had lionfish and in my opinion they should only be kept in a species tank.

Also your going to need an enormous skimmer and like a 55 gallon sump to be able to handle the bio-load

 

[reefer334]

If you want a grouper get a smaller one like a blue line or miniatus.The lion will get big quick less than 2 years it will be at least 10 inches.Good luck .

 

[ejrabekoff]

I am deciding to eliminate the lionfish, and the panther grouper. So I have

Zebra moray
Kole tang
Humu trigger
Harlequin tusk fish.

Is this a good tank should I add any other fish? Can I add any other fish? What would you recommend? Right now, I just have the small protein skimmer that came with thew freedom filter. Obviously, I need a better 1. Between the sump, and the protein skimmer, I would like to spend about $600. What can I get for this?

 

[mattsilvester]

I think with your revsied stocking list you will have a nice tank there, whcih should be problem free. Can you add more fish - you probably could, from a territorial point of view, and without the lion / grouper you do have a few more choices. Where you are going to get caught is bioload / filtration. I am in Ireland, so I am not familiar with the filters etc. you mention, nor am I aware of what $600 will buy you...... it woldn't buy you much here, I know that

I know I recommended the harlequin tuskfish - the only thing to bear in mind is that you cannot treat these guys with copper, should you have white spot problems.

Comments on Angelfish - I think angelfish as a species get a bt of bad press as far as being delicate etc. There are some very hardy species out there, and if you look after them properlym they are not "difficult" in my opinion...... physicall, they are easy to feed in that they are bold and robust and will not be bullied out of feeding if you get the more robust species (providing sufficient variety is simply a matter of buying a sufficient variety).... the most difficult thing about them is they will not tolerate poor water quality - but my opnion on water quality is that no fish should be should be subject to poor water quality anyway, so it should not be an issue.... and in a fowlr, with lots of LR, you should be ok in terms water quality if you get a decent skimmer and do regular waterchanges......

I suppose really the only species I would recommend for you would be the passer..... they don't get so big..... but are aggressive and that may be a problem later.

Other tangs...... purple, yellow, hippo (regal), mustard...... there are quite a few. I would stay away from acanthurus species or naso's ..... too big etc.

I do think that a miniata gouper would still be a nice addition to your tank.... as would a puffer of some sort.....

HTh

Matt

 

[baldomero]

i had a 12 inch zebra in my 90 gallon with damsels and a couple of other small fish he wouldnt bother them at all -all he ate was krill that i hand fed it.

 

[ejrabekoff]

I am considering buying the Deltec MCE 600 protein skimmer. It does not need a sump, so I could spend the extra $200 on more live rock, or an ozone unit. Is this a good skimmer? Would a puffer work in my tank? What kind would you recommend?

 

[mattsilvester]

There is a "deltec" forum in the sponsors section - if you post there you'll get a good answer, and they are genuinely frank an honest - not in it for the hard sell.....

For you proposed tank, I think you would want a deltec AP851 or an AP701..... that is what I would opt for..... APF600 as an absolute minimum...... but ask the experts I say - the resource is there ..... I'd use it.

When I was setting up my tank, they advised me to go for a Deltec turbo 1060s.... which I thought was far too big..... but they were right..... in fact I wish I went bigger!

As far as puffers - I have no real experience to speak of, so I'll refrain from offering species specific advice here......

As far as skimmer 'vs' LR ..... in my opinion, money spent on skimmer is always better spent...... find the best one you can afford, then look at the next model up and get a loan ..... so seriously, it cannot be over stated how a BIG skimmer can positively effect a FOWLR tank..... it removes waste before it has a chance to break down to nitrite / nitrate / phosphate..... and will ultiamtely save you alot of work doing water changes (and money on salt).

HTH

Matt

 

[viggen]

I have always had a MUCH harder time keeping Kole tangs then any angel! I think Kole's aren't as finicky as powder blue's but not far off. They are (or can be) VERY skiddish & thus almost always very shy. You seem to be leaning towards a more agressive tank so I would throw in some Tangs that are more agressive & not so whimpy. My choices would be yellow, naso, vlmangi (holy crap these guys grow FAST, probably to big for your tank), purple, atl blue and a few others. You could easily add a few different ones with the Naso & Vlmingi running a VERY good chance of outgrowing your tank. My Vlmingi went from 2 in to 11+ in about 13 months, I have a 260g.

You could also add other triggers. I have a hawian/black durgeon who is VERY active w/o any attitude. Also Niger blue throat & a few others could be in your tank along with the picasso.

Angels -- Queen & emperor are 2 of my favorite angels that I own. From my experience they are MUCH easier to keep then a kole tang & also grow to a good size.

Tusk- GREAT fish!! One of my favorite .... no attitude, sometimes shy

 

[ejrabekoff]

I think that Naso, and Vlamingi will easily outgrow my tank. Right now, I am leaning toward yellow tangs. The deciding factor between them, and a purple tang will probably be which will look better in my tank. What do you think? A school of 3 yellow tangs would be beautiful, bt I probably do not have room, especially with only 5' of latteral swimming space. Do I? I am always hopeful.

 

[viggen]

yea, a vlmingi would outgrow the tank in year. Naso's grow a LOT slower & you could be fine for 5+yrs.

I have always like the yellow's & didn't feel the purple's were worth the money. The yellow's are so bright that they look great!! They are just VERY stupid

The Blue Hep tangs are pretty cool & do not grow to fast. A Powder blue or Achilles could also be added both being a very active slow growing fish

 

[mattsilvester]

I would respectfully disagree with viggen - I had a regal / hippo tang grow from a little under 2" to a good 8" in about 18 months ...... but otherwise they are a great fish, very hardy once established, have great colour, are not too aggressive. As a begginer, I would not recommend any acanthurus tangs - they really are prone to whitespot etc., are difficult to feed properly (sufficiently) in the beginning and then if you are sucessful in keeping them alive, they are very aggressive to other fish....

3 yellow tangs..... well its been done in a 150, but I personally wouldn't. I put 5 in my 8x2x2 tank, and while they didn't murder one another, they were constantly bickering and flaring fins..... i liek peace in my tanks, personally, so I brought 4 back....... If your willing to put up with the ocasional split fin etc. then go for it, but I personally do not like the idea, and hence would recommend you steer away from the idea.

HTH

Matt

 

[ejrabekoff]

Achilles tangs are beautiful, but very difficult to keep. I am either going to go with a yellow tang, or a purple tang. Although a blonde naso tang might be able to fit in to my tank for a couple year, they are harder to keep than a yellow tang, which is important for a beginner tank. Is there any real difference in hardiness between a yellow tang, and a purple tang?