Amino Acids

[trueblackpercula]

Ok i have a question about the sytems using AA. the ones that have claimed to have better color on thre Sps do you have sand beds and if so how deep? or are they BB tanks? Lets keep this civil please no DSb Vs. BB the reason I am asking is becuase I have been think about adding sand and was wondering if this would be a bad thing for a DSb tank. The reefers out there dosing AA do you see a growht of algea or increase in protein skimming? I was adding AA by zeo and stopped becuase corals did not get better in color but were dieing becuase i used zoe with the blue coral methid that contains suger. this cuased the tank to crash hard witha bacterial infection the killed all my wild caught colonies.
Thanks
Michael

 

[kysard1]

What do you think bacteria break AA's down to? Ammonia. I find it a stretch to think that a coral will consume an AA before it is broken down to ammonia by bacteria. In fact if the AA makes it into the coral it is probably converted straight to ammonia.

 

[gcarroll]

I have a 2" sandbed. Kind of a semi shallow deep sand bed!

 

[Mark C]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10570792#post10570792 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kysard1
What do you think bacteria break AA's down to? Ammonia. I find it a stretch to think that a coral will consume an AA before it is broken down to ammonia by bacteria. In fact if the AA makes it into the coral it is probably converted straight to ammonia.

So you are basically saying that the main benefit to dosing Amino Acids is that it's just another source of nitrogen in the tank? I guess there are much cheaper ways to add nitrogen to the tank, however I have read that Amino Acids strengthen the protection of the coral against UV rays, which is essentially the "enhanced" color we see.

 

[glassbox-design]

bacteria use them....corals can also uptake them. we dont know which is happening first, but some very low nutrient tanks do show improvements from aa's.

so which bacterias are utilizing the aa's and how/who is turning it into ammonia? the tiny amount of ammonia that could be produced from them is really of no concern to a properly set up reef.

aa's are a "clean" organic nitrogen source...one that does not break down into po4.

 

[eskymick]

I started using AAs two weeks ago,and I dose my SPS reef 4 times a week with them.

Last night, after being gone all day, I noticed a marked improvement in SPS color ... especially the blues and purples.

 

[Denadai]

I can bet that nobody here knows why they have to dose aminoacids

Why colors will improve ??? What´s the aminoacid function in a SPS coral ? What´s the relationship between colors and aminoacids ?

Regards

 

[IPT]

Flint&Eric may be right. AA"s are the building blocks of Protiens. Maybe they are just a clean source of nitrogen. Too bad there is no easy way to objectify color change.

As for the placebo effect - I'm all for it. However, in order for it to work the organism has to know it is injesting something. I think the coral do not know and therfore cannot respond. Or did you mean we the observer "see" better color after dosing and that is the placebo effect?

 

[250G]

Interesting thread. So how long have AA's been on the market for the reef tank? Someone must have used them for some amount of time?

Having experienced the additive learning curve long ago, I am always reluctant considering additives for my reef, but still find the discussion interesting.

 

[Mark C]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10574491#post10574491 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Denadai
I can bet that nobody here knows why they have to dose aminoacids

Why colors will improve ??? What´s the aminoacid function in a SPS coral ? What´s the relationship between colors and aminoacids ?

Regards

The benefit of amino acids has been known for awhile, its just that most people couldn't have kept a nutrient free tank long enough to even worry about it... Here is the abstract of an article from the Dec. 1991 edition of the Coral Reefs journal by Ferrier:

"High pressure liquid chromatography was employed to provide the first definitive proof of the net uptake of dissolved free amino acids (DFFA) at nanomolar levels by four scleractinian corals (Montastrea annularis, Madracis mirabilis, Agaricia fragilìs, and Favia fragum). During 2 h incubations all species exhibited simultaneous net uptake of eight amino acids. For M. annularis and F. fragum uptake of some dissolved amino acids occurred at concentrations lower than those found in reef waters. Microbial activity or adsorption of DFAA to exposed coral skeletons during these experiments did not appear to be important. Although it seems unlikely that DFAA uptake can provide a significant energy source for corals under ambient condìtions, it may be important in the acquisition and retention of nitrogen by these animals."

The last line is the important one for reefkeepers... It basically implies that in a nutrient deprived tank, dosing amino acids could lead to better acquistion and retention of nitrogen, which in turn can enhance their color.

 

[Fish2reef]

I started using Zeo in my tank and did not notice the difference until four month into the change started adding the AA and wow what a difference, might not be color but overall health and polyp extension.

 

[IPT]

Mark, thanks for the reference. As much as we can rely on hear-say and personal or other's experiences, it is always nice when science agrees. I just may try AA's and see what happens.

 

[kev apsley]

Essentially hobbyist who have extremely low nutrient tanks can benefit from AA's because their water column is so stripped clean of nutrients that the corals zooxanthellae slowly starve from lack of food/energy. If that is the case, as a few folks on here have mentioned, people with low nutrient tanks can either a) feed more/add more fish b) dose AA's to increase the available uptake of nitrogen into the zooxanthellae, which in turn will create more UV protecting algae/colors in the corals. On the other hand there are a lot of people just dumping AA's into their tanks assuming that it is a magic elixir, where in actuality they probably already have enough nitrogen in their systems that the zooxanthellae are already fat and happy.


I only seeing it being a good source for lower nutrient systems not everyone IMHO

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10555769#post10555769 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefnetworth

Iodide will help with the color.

What makes you think this? Do you have any sources?

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10572795#post10572795 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
bacteria use them....corals can also uptake them. we dont know which is happening first, but some very low nutrient tanks do show improvements from aa's.

so which bacterias are utilizing the aa's and how/who is turning it into ammonia? the tiny amount of ammonia that could be produced from them is really of no concern to a properly set up reef.

aa's are a "clean" organic nitrogen source...one that does not break down into po4.

..but dont SPS actively farm bacteria? Make the bacteria happy, make the SPS happy.

 

[King-Kong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10576506#post10576506 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kev apsley
Essentially hobbyist who have extremely low nutrient tanks can benefit from AA's because their water column is so stripped clean of nutrients that the corals zooxanthellae slowly starve from lack of food/energy. If that is the case, as a few folks on here have mentioned, people with low nutrient tanks can either a) feed more/add more fish b) dose AA's to increase the available uptake of nitrogen into the zooxanthellae, which in turn will create more UV protecting algae/colors in the corals. On the other hand there are a lot of people just dumping AA's into their tanks assuming that it is a magic elixir, where in actuality they probably already have enough nitrogen in their systems that the zooxanthellae are already fat and happy.


I only seeing it being a good source for lower nutrient systems not everyone IMHO

I agree with this. And I would also add a C) option, as stated above; SPS actively harvesting bacteria

 

[gasman059]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=#post target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 250G
Interesting thread. So how long have AA's been on the market for the reef tank? Someone must have used them for some amount of time?

Having experienced the additive learning curve long ago, I am always reluctant considering additives for my reef, but still find the discussion interesting.

That's me . Always consider it but end up shying away.

 

[abark]

I have been dosing Elos AA's for one week now and I can see a definite improvement in two of my corals that have become pale over time. I have been activley battling macro algaes for a year and half and I only won the battle when I stripped the water column of all organics. I used wet skimming and agressive carbon and GFO filtration. Over time the source of the problem, my live rock, also depleted its source but my corals suffered by displaying pale coloration.

From the beginning of June to mid July I completely neglected my tank due to work travel. I don't think my colors ever looked better in my SPS at the end of the travel session but my macros also loved it. Once I replaced my reactor media and did a few water changes my corals lightened again which led me to trying AA's as a way to add a clean energy source.

As to the notion that AA's are a fad or an elixer just remember that Amino Acids are the building blocks of life. Without them no life would exist. AA's are the building blocks of proteins and proteins are the building blocks of DNA. I think we can all agree that DNA exists within our corals so they do play a role. How they play a role can be debated but to say they are a placebo is a strech.

That being said I do believe that AA's in the modern reef only applies to people that try to keep a very low nutrient environment. When I started dosing aminos I knew why I was doing so and I did not expect any other result other than better coloration.

 

[jthnhale]

I've been using fauna marins Ultra-Min S for about 5 weeks now. I have an SPS dominated tank and keep the PO4 as low as I can, .002 on a hanna meter.

My colors were always on the pale side, after a month of dosing 2ml a day they have greatly improved. The colors have deepened and look great.

One side effect is that I get green algae growing on the glass very quickly. Without the AA's my tank would go days without needing to be cleaned. Now in one day the algae needs to be scraped off.

 

[jwre]

I use the KZ aminos and see definite reaction from the coral in terms of polyp extension, colour and growth. I also believe the use of aminos has the best result in a low nutrient environment.