Ammonia in a hyposalinity tank

Lion-o

Lion-o

Member
Hi All,

I've been treating my main display 300G tank with hypo. Kind of a long story but in summary ICH snuck in with some butterflies I had in QT for 8 weeks. Full details in the thread below if you're interested.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22893708#post22893708

Anyway, as of right now I'm mainly interested in the hypo + ammonia relationship. This tank has no cleanup crew or critters. It did have algae; we eliminated as much as we could while lowering salinity and it is no longer growing.

Now we are at a steady 1.009 and ammonia has just peaked up a little bit (no longer reading 0 on our API test kit). I got a 2nd ammonia badge as a sanity check and that is reading .05 (alarm). I don't know if the badge is more accurate, but I like to think so as the scale is 0-.5 rather than 0-8 like the API kit. Nitrites measure 0 and Nitrates are measuring some shade of yellowish orange (I hate these color strip tests).

As soon as we measured some ammonia we did a water change of 50g. I would love to say that I can easily do 150g water changes for this tank, but all that I can reasonably do is in the 25-75g range. So we are trying out Seachem Prime. I already mixed about 15 capfuls into the tank today. I'm not noticing a difference in color on the badge. I read the below article on ammonia which states that your test kit results may be off, but i don't believe it applies in this case (I could be wrong).

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php#17

It was also suggested I try something like BioSpira to get some instant bacteria to help detoxify the ammonia. Would that help me in this situation, or would it make things worse as the bacteria would all simply die off due to the hypo? The only other relevant information I can think of is that we still have 1 rabbitfish and 2 butterflies. I am going to try cutting their feedings down a little bit too, but usually they gobble it up without any issues.

TLDR:
1) How effective is Seachem Prime in display tanks?
2) Would a product like BioSpira work in a hypo tank? Could it just make things worse?

thanks in advance :)
danny
 
Prime should work if enough is added. The dosing rate given by SeaChem is 1 capful per 50g, so your tank should have plenty.

The API kit should read zero if the ammonia is bound by the Prime, as far as I can understand from some checking. I'm not sure what's happening.

What brand of ammonia badge is this?

I don't think the BioSpira will help or hurt. The low salinity might kill a lot of the bacteria immediately, for example, if any actually are live.
 
The label indicates that the badge might require 4-5 hours to register a drop in the free ammonia level. I'm not sure how long ago you dosed the Prime. I guess I wouldn't worry for a bit as long as the fish seem okay.
 
Aye, I concur. I dosed sometime around 10am ish this morning, so a good 6 or so hours ago. I might try another dose later as the prime label says up to 30 capfuls should be ok for an ammonia emergency.

Also making water for another water change, but that takes time for such a big tank!

I'm kind of wondering if the biospira would do anything, since this tank has already been established a year or so. If the bacteria in there isn't doing enough work, then adding a starter bottle probably won't help. I know inverts and such die, but i'm not sure how the bacteria do under hypo salinity.
 
Lots of people report problems with ammonia in hyposalinity tanks. I am skeptical about the bacteria product helping, but I doubt it'd hurt anything.
 
I have a concern myself...

I have a concern myself...

Just setup a new 30g QT and have a hyposalinity question.

At what SG would you consider it NOT Hypo?? My SG of the QT is cerrently set at 1.018. I had set it this low because I wanted to make it easier on any new fish I add. My LFS keeps their SG at like 1.023, so I figured that 1.018 would be fine.....any thoughts??

To get my new QT cycled....I took two pieces of LR from my DT and placed it in the QT, added a bottle of Dr. Tims's Nitrifying Bacteria, and added a bunch of sponges to my AC 70 HOB. Like the OP, I am also concerned that with the SG set at 1.018, will my tank cycle and get the Ammonia spike??

After reading this post, I am concerned that the SG is a bit too low for this new QT, and the bacteria that was on my LR has died off. It has only been running for 5 hours now, so I can always raise the SG of the QT when I get home from work in like 8 hours.

Any input would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
I don't think 1.018 is too low, I think several fish stores use that SG. However I personally would raise it up a bit to 1.02 just to get a closer average SG.
 
I am not sure what you're asking. I would keep a quarantine tank at 1.0264. If you're trying to treat for marine ich, 1.008 or so is appropriate.
 
bertoni said:
I am not sure what you're asking. I would keep a quarantine tank at 1.0264. If you're trying to treat for marine ich, 1.008 or so is appropriate.
Click to expand...

I agree . First you observe and then you treat if necessary. During the observation stage you keep the specimen unstressed at normal sea water as Bertoni suggested
 
My feelings are a bit mixed. If the fish store I am buying from keeps their tanks at 1.018, I don't want to drop the fish in my QT sitting at 1.026. If it is a FOWLR tank, I also don't see the need to keep it that high as you don't have the demanding coral in there.

However, I would be careful with things below 1.02 and I can tell you from experience you won't get any ammonia issues until you get to around 1.01 or lower. Also, mine were temporary and I've had no issues since in my hypo tank, which is now slowly climbing back up in SG. :)
 
Fish are osmoregulators, not osmoconformers. I would move them to a system with a good SG ASAP, personally. It's not clear that any acclimation is necessary, for example. There are a lot of threads in this forum on the topic, if anyone wants more reading.
 
bertoni said:
Fish are osmoregulators, not osmoconformers. I would move them to a system with a good SG ASAP, personally. It's not clear that any acclimation is necessary, for example. There are a lot of threads in this forum on the topic, if anyone wants more reading.
Click to expand...

TIL two new big words :) So, are you trying to say by being osmoregulators that the fish have to work harder (kidneys) to maintain the correct internal salinity?

That makes sense to me, but why would fish stores (eg liveaquaria and other LFS) keep their fish in such low SG?
 
Lion-o said:
My feelings are a bit mixed. If the fish store I am buying from keeps their tanks at 1.018, I don't want to drop the fish in my QT sitting at 1.026. If it is a FOWLR tank, I also don't see the need to keep it that high as you don't have the demanding coral in there.

QUOTE]

Its your perfect opportunity to gradually acclimate them to 1.026. In the qt start with 1.018 and gradually raise it

Btw
I would not buy fish from a LFS that keeps their salinity at 1.018. There is absolutely no constructive purpose in doing this. The idea about the fish being less stressed is a bunch of fish poop
Click to expand...
 
Lion-o said:
TIL two new big words :) So, are you trying to say by being osmoregulators that the fish have to work harder (kidneys) to maintain the correct internal salinity?

That makes sense to me, but why would fish stores (eg liveaquaria and other LFS) keep their fish in such low SG?
Click to expand...

Somewhere they got the stupid idea that it is less stressful for fish and another factor might be and probably is money.
 
bertoni said:
Fish are osmoregulators, not osmoconformers. I would move them to a system with a good SG ASAP, personally. It's not clear that any acclimation is necessary, for example. There are a lot of threads in this forum on the topic, if anyone wants more reading.
Click to expand...

Wow Jonathan. Sure point me to them. Experience finds that a tough pill to swallow have acclimated thousands of dollars of fish. I don't know if I would have the nerve to do it but I would love to read about it
Scotty
 
You could ask Bill about it. He has posted a number of times on the topic. I'll take a look to see what I can find.
 
The fish we tend to keep are from natural ocean waters, generally not brackish areas, and so are adapted to water in the general vicinity of 1.0264. Keeping them in other conditions is going to stress them, in reality. That said, fish seem to be fairly tolerant of poor conditions.

There are a number of theories on why various people use low SG water. It does save on salt, I guess. It might be alleged to help with some parasites, but I haven't seen any data to show that.
 
bertoni said:
I am not sure what you're asking. I would keep a quarantine tank at 1.0264. If you're trying to treat for marine ich, 1.008 or so is appropriate.
Click to expand...

Sorry....was that for me, or the OP?

If it was for me...then here it goes.....

I am going to perform the TT method when I buy my pair of clowns. I figured that keeping the SG lower than what my LFS keeps them at, would just be easier on the fish, esp....getting juggled around from tank to tank during the TT method.

Once in quarantine, I would slowly start to raise the SG to eventually match my DT. Right now...I don't have an ATO for my QT tank...only my DT. So I figured that by letting evaporation take its course, the SG would slowly rise (which I would be monitoring regularly with a refractometer), and then once my QT and DT are matched, then I would hold them steady and wait until the fish are quarantined for the suggested time period. Also...I always have RODI and SG water on hand to make adjustments if and when necessary.

If the aforementioned game plan is flawed, then please offer some advice on what you would recommend. Thanks.
 
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