Ammonia tolerance in QT

[WLachnit]

I'm having trouble keeping 0ppm ammonia in my 29g QT. I have some LS and a LR in there but clearly not enough. I've been doing daily 30% water changes (using water from my DT) to keep ammonia under 0.25ppm. How much ammonia can a (Blonde Naso) Tang tolerate? Should I be doing something different? This is the first time I've actually tried to quarantine a new fish.

 

[reefergeorge]

I have had my ammonia over 1 in Qt. I don't recommend it but it happens. Use a product like prime, and the fish will be fine.
The first time I freaked out, and was doing 90% wcs. It still didn't help.

 

[shuguley]

I kept two clownfish in quarantine for 4 weeks and I was never able to get the total ammonia under .25. Now remember, total ammonia is not as toxic as free ammonia, if your total ammonia is .25 then your free ammonia is probably undetectable. Many ammonia tests actually test for just total ammonia, check to see which ammonia your test actually tests for, and if you are at .25 total ammonia, you are fine.

If you get a seachem ammonia alert badge, they test for free ammonia, and they come in handy. They cost about $7
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=SC4111

 

[tmz]

I keep Ammo Lock(an ammonia detocifier) on hand. I find it relatively easy to keep the ammonia at 0 with seeded media such as live rock, filter sponge or crushed coral in afilter bag. I assume the live rock you are using has been in a tank for a while. If it's new it could actually be the sourc of the ammonia.

 

[WLachnit]

Thx for the input. It didn't even occur to me to use Ammo lock (Which I have on hand). Yes, the LR (fully-cured) comes from my sump on my DT. How long does it take for a filter sponge that's been in my DT to be useful (cured so to speak) to be used in my QT?

 

[EvMiBo]

QT'ing a new fish in a tank with LS and LR sort of defeats the purpose of the QT.. Doesn't it???? You should have a bare bottom in there without LS and LR. Because if you're tang has ich, the ich is already in your LS and puting him in your DT will just spread the ich. I would just put pvc in your QT. Am I missing something?

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13294026#post13294026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvMiBo
QT'ing a new fish in a tank with LS and LR sort of defeats the purpose of the QT.. Doesn't it???? You should have a bare bottom in there without LS and LR. Because if you're tang has ich, the ich is already in your LS and puting him in your DT will just spread the ich. I would just put pvc in your QT. Am I missing something?

No you are not missing anything. If a piece of seeded live rock is used,you would have to remove it if ich or velvet showed up during qt and keep it away from your system or any fish for a couple of months. It is easier to use something you can dispose of for biofiltration in qt such as a piece of seeded( kept in your sump for several weeks priot to use in qt so bacteria can develop on it) filter sponge or even some crushed coral in a filter bag. The latter would, however,absorb copper to some degree if you had to use it for medication and make keeping the theraputic level correct difficult.

 

[WLachnit]

The QT IS a bare bottom tank w/ PVC. I have a piece of LR and a small bowl of LS (I was going to quarantine a diamond goby as well). This LR and LS is not going back into my DT.

 

[EvMiBo]

So, still, whats the point of having LR and LS in the QT? Isn't it just a waste of good sand, rock, and a fishes health - at least for a few months if ich is caught?

I dont mean to be sounding argumentive if I am, just don't see the point, at all. :hmm2:

 

[boilermaker1]

Fighting the same problem... actually came on here looking for help so I'm glad I just found this. Tried changing a large amount of water ~ 10 gallons of a 29 g, and registered no change in ammo.
I'm gonna have to go pick up something in the morning.
Was using seeded sponge filters (the air drive kind) but I guess its not enough to do it.

 

[shuguley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13294118#post13294118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by boilermaker1
Fighting the same problem... actually came on here looking for help so I'm glad I just found this. Tried changing a large amount of water ~ 10 gallons of a 29 g, and registered no change in ammo.
I'm gonna have to go pick up something in the morning.
Was using seeded sponge filters (the air drive kind) but I guess its not enough to do it.

Give the sponge filter time, it will eventually be enough to control ammonia for 1 or 2 small fish. My QT is bare bottom, no LR no LS... just pvc pipes, a heater, and a sponge filter. The thing with a sponge is, it takes time for the beneficial bacteria to build up on it, just like when you cycle your LR in your DT. For this reason many people keep the sponge in their sump when not in use in the QT.

The first time I quarantined with my setup, My sponge had no beneficial bacteria on it. I was doing water changes every other day, and using Amquel+ in between water changes. This went on for 4 weeks with 2 clownfish. Now I have a wrasse in QT for 3 weeks, the sponge filter is working now, so I have not had any ammonia spike at all and have just been doing weekly 10% water changes.

 

[stingythingy45]

I had all my fish in a hospital tank doing hypo and had ammonia problems right up until the tank actually cycled.
Amequel+ and water changes.I also had the SeaChem ammonia badge in the tank.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13294115#post13294115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EvMiBo
So, still, whats the point of having LR and LS in the QT? Isn't it just a waste of good sand, rock, and a fishes health - at least for a few months if ich is caught?

I dont mean to be sounding argumentive if I am, just don't see the point, at all. :hmm2:

It's a mater of choice and situation. If for example you have a wrasse in qt that needs sand to bury in at night you might put some in. This would be very true for a leopard wrasse which would likely damage it's mouth or skin trying to bury in bare bottom.Another example is a fish that may need live rock to peck pods from. While a bare bottom and pvc is preferred for a number of reasons, since qt should last a minimum of 4 weeks it is important to cater the environment to the needs of certain species. As with most things in the hobby there is no one way to do things.

 

[stingythingy45]

Personally,I think bare bottom QT tanks stress fish out like crazy.That's why I maintain a cycled QT with a sand bed and PVC for hiding.If I need to use meds I will take the time to siphon out the small layer of sand and dispose it.
But again,it's all up to each individual hobbyest.

 

[Macimage]

So, still, whats the point of having LR and LS in the QT? Isn't it just a waste of good sand, rock, and a fishes health - at least for a few months if ich is caught?

I dont mean to be sounding argumentive if I am, just don't see the point, at all.

Many fish do much better in a qt setup with live sand and live rock. My 29 gallon qt has live sand, live rock, a remora pro skimmer, heater, maxijet powerhead and mini light. The water quality is perfect.

I also have a 10 gallon hospital tank with pvc, aquaclear hangon filter with seeded sponge, mini powerhead and heater for dosing meds.

There are many ways to qt fish. I have found that fish in a reef setting do far better in qt that mimics my reef. To me it's not a waste of sand and live rock. Having fish die from stressful or inadequate qt conditions is a waste to me.

It's all a personal choice.

Joyce

 

[WLachnit]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13300728#post13300728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by shuguley
Give the sponge filter time, it will eventually be enough to control ammonia for 1 or 2 small fish. My QT is bare bottom, no LR no LS... just pvc pipes, a heater, and a sponge filter. The thing with a sponge is, it takes time for the beneficial bacteria to build up on it, just like when you cycle your LR in your DT. For this reason many people keep the sponge in their sump when not in use in the QT.

The first time I quarantined with my setup, My sponge had no beneficial bacteria on it. I was doing water changes every other day, and using Amquel+ in between water changes. This went on for 4 weeks with 2 clownfish. Now I have a wrasse in QT for 3 weeks, the sponge filter is working now, so I have not had any ammonia spike at all and have just been doing weekly 10% water changes.

So, any idea as to how much sponge is required to help keep the ammonia down?

 

[otrlynn]

Hang in there and keep changing the water. I had 4 fish in a bare-bottom 29 gallon hospital tank undergoing hypo for ich, and I needed to do large daily water changes at first. I did have a seeded filter from my DT. I think the problem is that the bacteria on the filter or sponge is not equal to the bioload. The need to do the daily the water changes will decrease as the beneficial bacteria builds. In my experience, the fish seemed to be okay as long as the ammonia level did not rise above .50., although I aimed to keep it at .25 or lower.

Given that stressful experience, the next time I set up a QT, I added a few pieces of cycled live rock as well as a filter that had been on my DT for 2 weeks. Even though it is 3 fish in a 15 gallon, I have had much less of a problem with ammonia, though I do still change water 2-3 times a week. My understanding is that the rock can be left in there if I need to do hypo (apparently the bacteria will adjust to the lower salinity levels). If the fish turn out to have ich, I'll probably just let the tank run fish-free for 8 weeks at the end of the treatment period before putting the rock back in the tank.

 

[tmz]

I have used rock,crushed coral and sand in qt when appropriate. As for sponge , I take one used pad from a canister filter that I use to run and prefilter a uv on my display. I place it in the hob filter box along with some carbon on a 29g tank and it controls ammonia quite well.