An unforseen fork in the road

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12589391#post12589391 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Putawaywet
Unfortuantely, my Royal Gramma appears to be coming to the end of it's time with me.

This is his 3rd tank now, the first was back in my bedroom tank circa '95/'96 or so.

He seemed fine when he first went it back early April, but a couple weeks ago he abruptly stopped eating. So sad, food literally hits him on the nose and he just hovers in place as though he knows it's time to eat but.. He down to coming out for only the briefest of periods and darts back into the rockwork as soon as I come near the tank. Each day that passes his fins are looking more and more ragged and he is starting to lose more of his color around his face

Given his years with me and the obvious absence of any other visible signs of injury, parasites or fungus I'm out of ideas beyond the fact it's just his time.

Brett

putawaywet - I had a couple fish die in this manner. Its almost like the are blind...they come out when you feed but stumble around slowly and cant seem to eat. I'm pretty sure it is worms that are present in something like 80% of imported fish, but only take hold when there are other sources of stress. Mine was due to bad water quality (improperly packed DI resin that started leaching back into the water), and when this is the case, the usual course is for one fish at a time to die (I had two go sequentially, and a third that was on its way before I figured out and fixed the problem with some massive water changes). The stress in yours might be due to old age, but I'd check and double check your RO unit, and do some big water changes just in case. Very sad about the gramma, but would really hate to see that Clarion suffer the same.
 
so far my sfiligoi is working well (knock on wood)...the only beef I have so far is the terrible design of the endcaps...bulbs seem to pop out way too easily you should be able to twist halfway and have them lock, but with the way they are, you can twist forever so getting them perfectly centered is a pain, and then they just pop out randomly sometimes.
 
Brett...lol.....I really enjoyed reading some of your post especially the new angel post. Have you written any good books lately? :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12591022#post12591022 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Putawaywet
Thanks for the kind words everyone. It's starting to fill in little by little.

Crab0000 - I am still sorting that out. Aquarium Obsessed told me 2 weeks ago that the new fixture was scheduled to leave Italy last week.

If that's so, then I would expect to hear something soon.

The tentative agreement reached is I get a brand new fixture but AO will temporarily charge me for it. I then use the new packaging to ship the first fixture back to AO who will forward it on to Sfiligoi. When AO receives the fixture they will credit my CC for the 2nd charge. AO also agreed to my demand that they pick up shipping both ways.

However, the way I understand it is that Sfiligoi is also charging AO for the 2nd fixture and will then credit them appropriately after it works it's way back to Italy. Personally I think that part stinks like a three day old baby diaper.

I have no idea if Sfiligoi will be reimbursing AO for some or any of the shipping charges. Will has already mentioned that he will be out quite a bit. Depending on the exchange rate between now and when I get credited I might be out a little.

Personally, I think Sfiligoi is seriously lacking in customer service and AO should drop them like a bad habbit, but that's not my call. The sad part is I'm not the first to have problems with Sfiligoi products. I've been contacted by more than one here on RC who have gone round and round with AO & Sfiligoi.

Brett
Wow, you'd think a fixture with a premium price would come with premium service! I'm glad Will is somewhat taking care of you, but how long has it taken? I agree, it sounds like it's time to drop Sfiligoi and fast!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12591239#post12591239 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mcliffy2
putawaywet - I had a couple fish die in this manner. Its almost like the are blind...they come out when you feed but stumble around slowly and cant seem to eat. I'm pretty sure it is worms that are present in something like 80% of imported fish, but only take hold when there are other sources of stress. Mine was due to bad water quality (improperly packed DI resin that started leaching back into the water), and when this is the case, the usual course is for one fish at a time to die (I had two go sequentially, and a third that was on its way before I figured out and fixed the problem with some massive water changes). The stress in yours might be due to old age, but I'd check and double check your RO unit, and do some big water changes just in case. Very sad about the gramma, but would really hate to see that Clarion suffer the same.

His eyesight appears to be fine as he can dive right back into his hole with little trouble as soon as there is movement outside the tank. Just zero appetite. All other fish appear fine. Spends 99% of his time in a crevice as if it's nighttime and he's bedding down for the evening. He was big and robust before this all started and spent a good deal of time out and about. He could also eat like a pig. Now he just parks himself in a hole and moves water over his gills.

Brett
 
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How are you keeping those wrASSes in there with no cover on the tank?! I have had 4 jump out of my 90g...great tank btw!
 
Fuzznutz, The light fixture covers about 80% of the tank so there's only a couple inches along the sides and 8" on either end that's open.

Brett
 
Yeah, well I have had one jump through 1/2" x 1/2" eggcrate holes. They make me angry, yet I keep buying them because they are so pretty ;)
 
Putawaywet, your tank really does look fantastic, and some of the work you've done is unique and innovative. Good luck and I hope you have your new fixture soon.

I just went back and read a great deal of your drama with Sfiligoi. I've talked to Will and was getting the new pricing on them because they seemed to be the only fan cooled 8x80w fixture available to the US.

However, after reading this it has me saying ATI Powermodules for the win!
 
Update on my updates: After hearing absolutely nothing, zip, nada, from A.O. for over a month I emailed Will to obtain yet another update. (which seems to be about all I'm doing anymore) His response was for lack of better words... a complete joke! He said that he had been away at InterZoo and "HE WAS JUST ABOUT TO EMAIL ME... "

It seems my fixture has not shipped from Italy as promised because there are more delays on those 120v U.S. spec ballasts. Which is absolute crap as his excuse last month was they had just come in and my fixture was being finished up and expected to ship that week. (I have every belief that my fixture has been sitting at Sfiligoi on a fast track to nowhere because they too were gearing up for InterZoo, and concentrating on getting more business would be a much higher priority than taking care of one customer with a fixture that doesn't work as advertised)

When I called him on it he said it was Obvious that we were BOTH being given the run around by Sfiligoi. Then he added when Alexandro told him my fixture hadn't shipped yet he said he totally "went off on him."

I've been trying really hard not to hold Will responsible, but this is just a joke. He is their sole U.S. importer, orders a sizable amount of their product, but I'm supposed to buy in to his explanation that he has no control over what Sfiligoi does and he is just as much of a victim as I am? Sorry, not interested, but thanks for stopping by!

I told him I am done waiting and will be going public with this fiasco to let as many people as possible know what a hack Sfiligoi is and how poorly they treat customers with products that do not work as advertised

Will's answer was to tell me (yet again) how much money he will be losing and how sad this is for not just for me, but now for him as well, because now his name is going to be dragged thru the mud over something he has no control over.

So, morale to the story sports fans: Will is just as much of a victim in this as I am, he is going to lose a bunch of money, and he has no ability to put pressure on Sifiligoi to make this right.

Yet... he continues to sell their product, including the Stealth.

I'll promise you one thing, and that's if you guys think I have a way with words now, just wait until you see what I can scratch together when I'm really PO'd. Like it or not, Aquarium Obsessed and Sfiligoi are going to be the recipients of an incredibly detailed review of the Stealth fixture and my wonderful relationship with their companies.

Brett
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12770026#post12770026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by InsaneClownFish
Putawaywet, your tank really does look fantastic, and some of the work you've done is unique and innovative. Good luck and I hope you have your new fixture soon.

I just went back and read a great deal of your drama with Sfiligoi. I've talked to Will and was getting the new pricing on them because they seemed to be the only fan cooled 8x80w fixture available to the US.

However, after reading this it has me saying ATI Powermodules for the win!



I have every confidence you will be much happier in the long run. The stealth fans are very small, about the size of a golf ball. I can place my hand over the end of the fixture and cannot tell if they are running. I have to shine a flashlight on them to see if they are turning.

At some point down the road (sooner if A.O. & Sifiligoi don't make good on a replacement) I may retro in a couple of larger fans on the top of the fixture with some sheet metal or something to try and make it look as OEM as possible.

Brett
 
Really is sad to hear you are having to do the same as myself to get your fixture working. I spent well over 2k maybe 2yrs ago now and I ended up doing a Ice Cap mod to get mine to work reliably. One MH bulb kept blowing a fuse on the fixture. Took easily a yr. to recieve a fixture via many different forms of shipping then the electrical problems started along w/ the many EM's w/ little to no response as well.

I was dumb enought to try and incorporate in a funtion on my Elos controller to give me a lunar cycle on my light fixture. Well dumb me I lost a couple parts and needed a part description and asked Italy and AO. I finally got a response but have since forgot how it all goes back together and now I am waiting again for a response from Italy on a wiring diagram for the moonlights so I can get them back together.

Then last but not least I have some T-5's out now. So now I get to check the T-ballast/transformer to see if I amy need to replace one of those ballasts. Needless to say I will be buying a 120v ballast and not be replacing w/ the standard 220v ballast.

Brett- I really don't understand why they do not use the 120v Vosse Schwabbe ballasts instead of the 220v version. I think the Giessemanne fixture come w/ a 120v version??

Chad
 
If you are talking 80 watt T5 ballasts in 110v they are expensive. I guess the 220v versions are less costly to build. ATI hasn't broght the 80 watt fixtures into the US because of the ballast cost.
 
Wow, you are a lot more patient than I am! I would have shipped that piece of crap back and had a chargeback done on my card by now whether Will looses money or not. Obviously their (AO and Sif.) relationship isn't too bad if they keep selling them.
 
Ok, it is with a heavy, heavy heart that I write this post. And as I am sure many of you will understand, it will not be filled with my usual upbeat, light-hearted banter and rhetoric that you have become accustomed to.

Also, while it is not my attempt to conceal or deceive anyone, I have deferred posting this information for no other reason than this is just the first opportunity I have had to write it all down.

Over the past couple months I have been quietly dealing with a slow and steady decline of both corals coloration and overall coral general health. Nothing earth shattering, just a unusual number of acroporids that were very slowly getting progressively lighter and lighter until one by one they up and bleached themselves into oblivion.

I tested my calcium on several occasions and was consistently seeing readings of 325-350. I increased my calcium additions. I was also fighting extremely low daily pH readings of 7.7/7.8, which, would not have had me quite so concerned had it not been the fact those numbers were coming back near the end of my photoperiod and not the beginning. I added more buffer and increased my Kalkwasser additions. I also bumped up my water changes to 30 gals per week. Still, certain corals continued to decline.

On Monday 6/9 I noticed my large Majestic Angel had what looked to have a “dusty” appearance covering about 25% of his body. I was concerned, but not alarmed, as I have occasionally seen skin irregularities such as this come and go. I made a mental note to check on him first thing in the morning. The following day, Tuesday 6/24 I awoke to find my Angel completely covered in more of the dusty substance. At this point I immediately began a systematic inventory of all fish in the display. From what I could tell all fish with the exception of my fairy wrasses had the same symptoms to an equal or slightly lesser degree.

I was in a complete state of shock. Utter panic would probably be a more appropriate term.

Ok, granted I’m not too proud to admit I’m arrogant as hell. Quite full of myself at times I’m sure, but the honest to god truth is I have not had a disease outbreak in one of my tanks in nearly a decade. Yet there I was staring at nearly 4K in fish all infected with some unknown pathogen and I had no flippin idea what I was going to do next. I was barely able to function, my stomach tied in such a knot I felt as though someone had kicked me.

Somehow I composed myself enough to fire up the laptop and begin researching various diseases in an attempt to get a handle on what I was dealing with. Over and over again pictures of fish infected with Marine Velvet kept coming up. But how? From where? It had been 27 days since the Clarion had gone in and I had added nothing else to the tank save for my weekly water changes. Even worse, lacking a microscope and unable to do a skin scraping there was no way I could say for sure. And removing fish…? That was a big no-go. Still, in my emotion driven panic I figured I had to do something so I headed to my LFS and hoped for the best.

After a long discussion with Steve at Strictly Fish we decided on a product called “Rally” which touted itself as a “reef safe” treatment for flagellated organisms such as velvet. The active ingredient according to the label was Formalin. Treatment protocols called for 4oz per 25 gals of water each day, for 3 days. Treatment could be extended additional days if needed. I performed a 10% water change with Catalina water, turned off my skimmer and dosed 42oz. of Rally.

I awoke the following day and all fish were still alive and eating.
 
On day 2, I noticed I was missing my small purple pseudochromis. I dosed the 2nd course of meds.

On day 3, all fish were still alive and actually appeared to be improving. Except for my Majestic Angel, which still looked horrible, but surprisingly, was still out and eating. I dosed the 3rd round of meds.

The 3-day treatment of meds had run it course on Friday the 13th (A day the will live in infamy) I performed a 20% water change and began a 2nd treatment by dosing another 42 oz’s of Rally. By now I had not only regained my appetite but left for work with a slight sense of relief.

When I returned home 13 hours later I was staring at a complete train wreck. My Majestic looked so bad it almost appeared as though his skin was flaking. I had no idea how he was still alive. 2 of my Bartlett Anthias were now also MIA and the remaining 5 looked worse than ever. The Clarion was out and about, but he was equally infected. My corals were faring no better… several acros and montis were toast. Several more looked pretty bad. My heart sank to depths I didn’t know existed.

At this point I was so despondent that my wife wasn’t even sure if it was safe to speak to me. I not only skipped breakfast but also had to actively fight off urges to go in and throw up.

I headed back to Strictly Fish where I attempted to brainstorm with anyone and everyone that seemed willing to help. Lacking any other ideas Steve dialed up someone who he described as one of the most fish savvy people he knew… Ed at Brightwell Aquatics. He passed me the phone. A good 30 minutes of going back and forth over what was and wasn’t happened. Ed surmised that this had to be a water quality issue and advised that there was a very good possibility that my already problematic pH could have been driven thru the floor by the addition of the medication. That did seem to make sense as my skimmer was off and I had performed a pretty good-sized water change with that notoriously low in Alk Catalina brand water just prior to the sudden down-turn. Ed’s advice was to get, what he suspected was a wild roller coaster ride of water parameters, back in line as well as doing whatever possible to increase fish nutrition with the addition of some vitamin C.

I returned home and re-tested not only my pH but also my Alk, which for some unexplainable reason, I hadn’t tested since before this mess began. pH yet again came in at 7.8, but to my shock, my Alk was a mere 4.8 kh. My head was swirling…. I was facing the realization that I was responsible for this fiasco.

I immediately added the recommended starting does of Kent Super Buffer DKH along with 3 tsp’s of Calcium hydroxide (Kalkwasser) supersaturated with approx 20oz of RO water and dumped in straight into the sump. I went in and tried desperately to get some much needed sleep. Around 7 pm I awoke and checked on the tank. Everything looked status quo. I began getting ready for work. At Approx 7:45 I passed by the tank and noticed my Majestic Angel was horizontal on the substrate. He was alive, barely, breathing heavy and had 3 hermit crabs crawling over him. I gently netted him out, said a tearful goodbye to my friend of 13 years and euthanized him in a bowl of water in the freezer.

By this point I was a wreck. Five days of stress with crappy sleep and no end in sight was beginning to take its toll.
 
The next morning, Sunday the 15th I came home to find 3 more Bartlett Anthias were MIA. Everyone else was accounted for. I continued testing water and dosing as necessary. Most peculiar, was a note my wife presented me from my mother containing the name of “Mike the Fish Guy” and his phone number. Unbeknownst to me my wife had discussed my situation with her mother-in-law, and mom being mom, began her own search for help. What the hell, I dialed up Mike and we chatted for about a half hour. Mike reaffirmed the belief that this was a water quality driven, stress induced, infection. He suggested that I stop adding medication, turn my skimmer back on and work on repairing my water quality in an attempt to allow the fish a chance to build their immune systems back up. He added that there was realistically little else that I could do at this stage of the game except hope for the best.

By that evening pH was just barely hitting 8.0, but I the kh had shot up to over 12. Still scratching my head over the unusually low pH I added more supersaturated kalk,wasser.

Then, just when things couldn’t get any crazier, my lovely wife handed me yet another note from my mother. This one contained the name and number of Dr. Robert Hildreth DVM. It seems… mom… not one to rest until every stone is unturned, had called the local vet hospital who subsequently referred her to Dr. Lance Adams down at my old stomping grounds at the Long Beach Aquarium. Dr. Adams retuned her call and gave her the referral of Dr. Hildreth whom he advised was a mobile vet that specialized in aquatic animals. He also passed on the message that no matter what, don’t give up. I dialed Dr. Hildreth post haste.

Dr. Hildreth answered the phone right off. Over the next hour and a half we chatted about all things aquatic. I quickly learned he has 30 years of fish keeping experience and currently keeps a 1,000-gallon tank filled with some rather large and rare Angels. He also was a guest speaker at MACNA when it was hosted out here in L.A. But more than that, he was, for lack of a better description, exactly what I needed at the moment. He was not only the voice of reason, but he offered the soundest advice I had received to date. And while Dr. Hildreth’s prognosis was frank and without promise, it was not without hope. He did an incredible job at repairing my emotional well-being. In a nutshell he told me that, in his opinion the worst of it was more then likely behind me, and that barring my ability to remove the fish from the display, I had already done pretty much everything possible to save my remaining fish. Those that were going to die were going to die and there was little I could do about it. However, he suggested that I go ahead and turn the UV back on as that would go a long way towards reducing the free-swimming protozoa levels. He also agreed that my main concern was to focus my efforts on saving the Clarion at all costs, and while I would be justified to have him come out for a house call, he felt that he would be able to offer little more beyond what I had already done. The fact that the Clarion was eating was a good sign and as long as he continued to do so, he felt he stood a better chance in the display than he would if I tried to remove him to a quarantine tank. We parted on a positive note and he said to be sure to stay in touch with updates or further question if needed.

On Monday 6/16 I came home to find the Regal Angel dead on the sand bed and the remaining anthias nowhere to be found. By this point I was resigning myself to the fact I would soon also lose the Clarion. I was also seriously considering the realization that this might be the final straw to drive me from the hobby. I slept little that afternoon and later that evening I made one final trip to the LFS and obtained several new test kits. There had to be something behind the conflicting test numbers.

But by Tuesday 6/17 my Clarion, along with my adult yellow tang were still eating. Although the yellow tang was not looking all that great, and was spending little time out in the open, he did come out to eat, which offered a smidgen of hope. The Clarion still looked the same but was eating at nearly every opportunity. And not just eating, but actively cleaning the yellow tang as well. Let me tell you, I’ve seen a lot of things in my years, but I will never forget standing there frozen in wonderment at the sight of a yellow tang completely horizontal and motionless on the sand bed being actively cleaned by a Clarion Angel who looked just barely better than the guy he was tending to. It was… nothing short of amazing.

And the days matched on…
 
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Which brings us up to the present. As of last evening both Clarion and Tang are looking relatively good. (knock on wood) The Clarion’s color still seems a tad bit faded, but his eyes are clear, his fins are intact and he openly swims about picking at the rocks. I need only walk up to the tank and he will eagerly come up to me begging for a handout. He is also devouring Thera-M pellets, Nori, and P.E. mysis all soaked in vitamins.

The yellow tang has also perked up quite a bit and is no longer sporting numerous white spots on his fins. His partially clouded eyes have cleared and he is out and about more and more. He does carry a few “pock marks’ on the side of his body which may very well be from the aggressive cleaning he has endured from the Clarion.

I’m feeling better and better that I can finally take a deep breath and (hopefully) put this ordeal behind me. I have still lost a couple more corals, and may continue to do so, but for the most part the remaining stock has stabilized, although I now have a lot of brown and dark green where once I saw blue and purple.

Conclusion: I have tested a 5 gallon sample of Catalina water both raw in the jug and 6 hours post addition of the appropriate amount of medication. My test results are almost identical for the untreated water and the medicated sample. So I feel confident that I can rule out my low Alk and pH from the addition of medication. I have however, discovered through a search here on RC that there appears to have been a bad batch of Salifert test kits a few years back that consistently tested .2 to .3 pts below their true readings. (This was confirmed by my new test kit that registered a nice healthy pH of 8.2 to 8.3). It appears my Salifert test kit is from that time period.

Additionally, I have since learned that if your pH levels are lower then the lowest reading on the color chart, most test kits will only display coloration equal to the lowest color on the scale. That is, if your pH is 7.5 and the lowest coloration on your pH scale is 7.7 your sample will peg 7.7. Which means you could be led to believe you ph is higher than it really is at a time when an accurate reading is needed more than ever.

So, I am left with no on to blame than myself for my losses. My own complacency obviously led to a slow and steady decline of both Alk and pH, which slowly took its toll on both fish and corals alike. Then, just when things were taking a turn for the worse, I further compounded my problems by shutting down both my skimmer and UV. All the while refusing to believe that a defective three-year-old test kit could be giving me bogus results. By the time I got a handle on what was causing my problems, and got my water quality under control it was too late for many of my fish and corals.

I have no idea where I will go from here as I may never be able to replace the Regal if for no other reason than by the time I find another one the Clarion may not allow him into the tank. I would really like another Majestic as he was an awesome Angel that always seemed to be the star of the tank. He will forever occupy a spot in my heart. Replacing the Bartlett’s is high on my list and Ali at Amazing Aquariums and Reefs has his eyes open when he hits the wholesalers. Beyond that I can only add two parting thoughts…

Listen to that inner voice when for no rational reason it tells you to purchase a UV filter

And…

No matter what, don’t give up
 
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Glad to hear you battled through. Sorry to hear about the losses...altho on the bright side you must be breathing a sigh of relief that the clarion made it through.

Just wondering on the bleaching...because I've had this two on a couple of my monti caps...it almost seems the sfiligoi puts out tooo much light. any thoughts if you are experiencing the same? My calc is about 420, kh at 9-10 and most of my corals have seen improved but lighter coloration (combo of low nutrients and T5s), but my big orange monti has been bleaching...only cause I can think of is too much light.
 
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