An unforseen fork in the road

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12810429#post12810429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mcliffy2
Just wondering on the bleaching...because I've had this two on a couple of my monti caps...it almost seems the sfiligoi puts out tooo much light. any thoughts if you are experiencing the same? My calc is about 420, kh at 9-10 and most of my corals have seen improved but lighter coloration (combo of low nutrients and T5s), but my big orange monti has been bleaching...only cause I can think of is too much light.

It's crossed my mind.

I have 12 5' tubes over my tank. 5 Blue+, 5 Aqua blue, 1 Actinic and 1 Pro color. I would imagine that's a good deal of PAR down the centerline.

I tested P04 and am hard pressed to even get a reading on my Elos test kit. I like to think I run a reasonably clean tank.... couple small feeds a day instead of 1 large one, high flow, wet skimming, hydrovac sand once a week, etc,.... but you'd think I could at least ping somewhere on the Elos scale.

My orange montis only started lightening up the last 3 or 4 weeks. It was right after the 2nd round of meds that they bleached almost overnight. However they still have some orange tint so I'm leaving them be for now. Several other acro colonies that were doing a good job of holding their color went almost overnight after adding the meds as well.

The rest of my losses I think were a combination of water quality and then the bounce from low light that came from the med tinted water, followed by the sudden shock of clear water when I removed the meds and turned the UV back on. Several colonies were already half bleached and those went quickly. Yet others, bleached on the tops or the side facing the light, but are just fine around the underside where the light was less intense.

Surprisingly, and when was the last time you heard this one.... the more rare or expensive the better they faired. My superman monti has gone a little brown, but is otherwise intact. One sunrise monti up high died outright, but the one lower down is mostly OK.

Actually, it sounds worse than it really is. If I count all the corals I've purchased since January it's probably only a 15% to 20% loss.

All my LPS are fine

All my gorgonians never missed a step. They remained open a good majority of the time. Go figure!

Zoos & mushrooms all fine except for 1 multi-colored Ricordia which is still trying to make up it's mind.

Brett
 
Ah, I was skimming through and didn't make the connection between the meds and bleaching, that would explain it...I'm hoping the montis will bounce back once they adjust to the light. My big one is about 3/4 of the way down in my tank (26" high) and the light is about 12" off the water, so I can't really move it any lower. I'm running 4 blue plus, 2 actinic plus, 2 fiji purple, 1 pro color, 1 uv aquasun, 1 aquascience special, and 1 ati aquablue special. I'm almost considering yanking the aquasun and replacing with an actinic or something. I'm honestly astounded by the light the T5s are putting out...the monti I'm speaking of was about the same distance from a 400w XM 20k MH...

it sounds like your husbandry is good, so I'd just stay the course and it will bounce back in no time.
 
Brett, I'm so sorry to hear about what you've been going through. If something like this happens again, I would really encourage you to post the situation so others can perhaps chime in on an oversight.

While this sounds arrogant, a lot of people tend to look up to me via my posts, and in that aspect it is almost embarrassing to state when the reef has a problem because you'd think I'd know the solution. I think for the past year I have posted repeatedly about my bad history with montipora, a. yongei and a. tortuosa. In all that time, I blamed a variety of things but eventually (two months ago) I figured out it was a stray voltage issue from a combination of powerheads in my sump and refugium. It is less than before, but I still have more work to get it all fixed. All the montis are vastly improved, and the slimer and torts are now not only alive but growing.

Whenever I doubt my numbers, I take a water sample to my LFS as well as to another hobbyist to have them verify the numbers with their kits. That even includes my refractometer readings. If my stuff is wrong, I want to know it so I can correct how I test, adjust the tool, or purchase a new working kit.

I'm rooting for you from over here. Don't give up, you've had great advice offered to you and it sounds like things are taking a turn for the better now. You might have Ali do a bunch of test of the Catalina water as well, just to make double sure.
 
I've been tagging along silently, and I just have to say:

I am truly sorry about the loss of your good friend of 13 years.
 
Brett, I'm sorry to hear that too....I'm going through the exact same situation as you at this moment in my tank and I know the frustration you must be feeling....
 
Thanks everyone.

There were so many things going thru my mind from possible toxins, to a bad batch of Catalina water, to some kind of equipment contamination, to elevated C02 levels in my house, to... I probably covered a dozen scenarios.

Yes I considered diving into the disease forum here on the board but my ego was my own worst enemy. It was part believing I could handle it, and part being so blindsided I wasn't sure I wanted to waste the time going back and forth on the computer.

Basically it comes down to I failed to realize just how fast things like this progress. You keep telling yourself that you have a few days to get some meds going and get your water jacked around and things SHOULD start turning around.

But the reality is by the time you are noticing infected fish it's probably already too late for some of them. It's readily apparent to me now that you literally have to catch it by breakfast and have all your ducks in a row before dinner if you want to stand a fighting chance. A couple wasted days dinking around in the wrong direction and you're already so far behind the game there's no way you can catch up.

Had I caught the water quality issue on day one and then had enough faith to do nothing else than fix the water I'm confident more fish would have pulled thru. The Majestic hung on for near one full week, so who knows. Instead, I let panic override common sense and experience and tossed a hail mary pass with some unfamilar and untested medication. Which appears to have done little more than waste valauble time and trash many of my corals.

There is nothing worse than coming home day after day and waiting those 2 hours until the lights came on so I could count fish. All the while knowing I was responsible. It was pure agony.

And then there were those wonderful decisions... nuke the tank and save the fish, or let the fish fend for themselves to save the corals. That's something I'm not anxious to face again any time soon.

But I think the absolute worst had to be standing in front of my tank mentally noting which fish I would be willing to sacrafice to save others if it came to that.

Brett
 
On a more positive note, in the last couple days I've only lost two small frags that came from colonies that have already bleached. No new colonies are bleaching. So that's encouraging.

I'm also seeing a touch of color coming back on a few acros. It's faint, but I see a hint of green instead of wall to wall brown. Woo-hoo!

It also appears that my 2 month supply of fish food just turned into a 6 month supply.

Ok, that last one was pretty bad but hey, I'm grasping at straws here.

Brett
 
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Brett, I feel terrible reading what you, your fish, and your tank just went thru. If you ever have second thoughts about a water quality reading (or lack of) get a hold of me. I'm like 5 minutes away from you and could bring all my test kits over to give you a second opinion.

I understand how you feel loosing an old fish. I just lost my Red Sea Tang that I have had over two years (not as old as yours) while I was on vacation. Have no idea why it died, and only that fish.
 
Thanks Ken, I will definitely keep that in mind. Sorry to hear you took a hit as well. Just an all around bad end to the month I guess.

When I was still dating my wife she was "surprised' to hear I didn't name my fish. Last weekend as I placed my Majestic angel in the freezer I looked up to see tears welling up in her eyes, she just looked at me and said now she understands.

Brett
 
Put I am deeply sorry to hear of your issues and your losses, I have been there with a regal and a defective heater blowing up in the water destroying a tank in a few hours so I can almost still feel the panic that sets in when that sorta thing happens.

I am happy to hear that hear clarion is pulling through, you may ask your pet stores to do what Ive done in the past with regals, and do a mass distributor calling and locate one. Usually they will ship it over to the store as a special order. may be worth a shot.

as for your medication, formulin is the A bomb of meds against bacteria and microfauna. please keep a careful eye on your water quality and your bioloads as you may have killed a good chunk of your bacteria colonies and your coceopods which may need time to recover.


Lastly Thank you for typing up your troubles even when so terrible. We as reefers tend to show our successes and fail to show issues or how we resolved them clearly
your posts may just save another reefers tank or maybe many of them who have similar symptoms. take heart that your losses may help others save their fish down the road.

I will be watching my distributor lists for regals and I shall see if I can get any names for you to talk to your pet store about to get one shipped over. good luck with your future stocking and getting the tank back to what you want.

-Justin
 
I was at Brett's today (to pick up some gray flexible PVC from him), and I gotta say, that despite his just horrific ordeal as of late, and terrible loses, his tank still looks absolutely stunning. You have to look very closely to see a little bit of TN on some of his lovely stonies, but it's only a few, and the lion's share of his corals look very colorful and WOW--pop under the T5's in the PITA Sifiligoi.

When you see a tank like Brett's you suddenly remember how those big tanks over 240g's can really take your breath away with their sheer scope...

His Clarion is absolutely AMAZING! This little fish has the confidence (and the belly!) of a much larger and more insolent angelfish. He eats like the best of them, and is truly a stunning specimen.

Brett really is doing something right, as it is very hard to find any algae in his tank--even despite his recent problems. I am confident that the tank will recover fully in no time at all. His fish loses, particularly the Navarachus he had for over a decade, are what the true tragedy is here...

But between the eye candy with the new Regal and the stunning Clarion, there is much, much there to still see and stun the eyes among the scales...! Peering into Brett's tank was a great way to spend a couple of hours on a Saturday morning, believe me...!

Thanks again, Brett...!
 
Well, someone is definitely looking out for me.

Ali called me on Monday to say he just scored another Regal. I picked him up on Tuesday. So far he is eating Cyclopseeze and Arcti-pods and has called dibs on the lesser occupied section of the tank against the wall. No issues with the Clarion that I can tell.... then again, this Regal is somewhat larger than the last, to the tune of about 3" or so.

I also picked up a baby Kole tang while I was there but sadly, he didn't make it. He was barely an inch long and someone beat up on him a bit during the first night. Tried every food I had but he just wouldn't eat. He was even refusing to pick at the rocks. Even refused to go into the rockwork... just hunkered down in a corner of the tank or down near the sand bed out in the open from morning to night getting more pale each day that went by. Found him dead yesterday, emaciated, and stuck to one of the Vortechs.

It's like I'm in some kind of a time warp or something. Like I've been blasted back 1987, have no clue what I'm doing and I'm killing fish left and right. Maybe I should keeping score by attaching pictures of my fish to the outside of the tank so if and when they don't make it I can put a big red "X" over the top of their picture.

Brett
 
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Hey Todd, it was great getting to meet you as well.

And psssst... it was more like 2 1/2 hours, but who's counting :)

Can't wait to see pics of your setup when you get it going.

Brett
 
Man, thanks for posting all this and sorry for your losses. I am glad you hung in there and will watch you rebuild with enthusiasm. Best of luck!
 
Brett - sorry about your losses. I too am suffering from an ich outbreak in my system. I blame it on not properly QTing...any thoughts of QTing the fish, maybe the kole would start eating there?
 
Hey everyone,

Yeah, yeah, I know... nothing but a string of empty promises on my end to do better with updates, only to leave everyone hanging for 3 months.

But wait, it gets worse because also I come without pctures so I'm going to force you to do a little work and read a wee bit.


You see, I do have a rather serious problem that I need some advice on.

If you've been following along for any length of time you'll remember I've been going back and forth with Will at Aquarium Obsessed and Alessandro at Sfiligoi trying to get a working STEALTH light.

Well, when last we left off, Will at Aquarium Obsessed did make good on his promise to ship me a replacement light. It ultimately wound up being something like the 3rd generation, (slightly different than the old one) and came with US spec ballasts that eliminated the dreaded hot external transformer box that. The light works just fine, so I'm happy I finally got what I paid for.

However, the deal was that Will would pay to have the replacement shipped to me as well as the old one shipped back to him. I felt that was only fair for what I had been put thru this last year.

We also agreed my credit card would be charged for the 2nd light, and then refunded when the original arrived back at A.O.

However, Will has had the old light back at his place for several weeks now and it is miraculously working just fine for him. Absolutely no problems with bulbs shutting down according to his last email. He also is reporting that several reflectors were "lose" and 'scratched up" when he unpacked the light.

As a result, he is now refusing to refund the 2nd charge on my card on the defense that he does not have a defective fixture, cannot send it back to Sfiligoi for a credit, and cannot sell it as new because the reflectors are all scratched up. He also took the opportunity to once again point out that he is out of pocket nearly $1,000 on shipping as though that somehow justifies his position.

His last email to me today is asking ME to email him back with my thoughts on what I feel is a fair resolution.

Of course I'm calling total and complete B.S.

So before I respond I'm going to first, speak to my CC company, and second, open it up here to comments as I'm curious what all of you might think about this recent change of events.

My position is: I paid serious coin for a supposed top-shelf light that I then had to live with for 6 months because it didn't work as advertised. I also spent 2 of those months going back and forth nearly every day with A.O. & Sfiligoi trying to repair it on my own time, and then, when A.O. finally agrees to a deal that gets me a replacement fixture, the old one somehow shows up at his place damaged, yet in perfect working order.

But then again, Will does have in the neighborhood of $4,500 of my money, and 1 of the 2 light fixtures, so it's easy for him to put the ball in my court and play the waiting game to see what my response will be.

Also keep in mind that I have no control over who may or may not be monitoring this thread, so while you are welcome to post freely, I also wecome PM's if you deem it more appopriate.

Brett
 
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$1,000 in freight? Seems a bit high... How much does it weigh and how far did it go? He shouldn't be making it your problem, he should be making it the manufacturer's problem. I call BS as well.
 
The new one went from Ontario Canada to So. California and then the old one took the reverse route back.

He's claiming $600.00 in air freight to get me the new light quicker since Sfiligoi missed several promised ship dates and close to $400.00 to get the old one back I believe.

Which is odd, because after sending yet another email looking for an update his response was something along the lines of.. . "I just received the light, it was delayed for 10 days in customs. Looking for the cheapest way to get it out to you."
 
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