Angel ID help? (maculosis/asfur with white tail & stripe??)

[lostanime]

I'm very confused as to what type of angel this is. Experienced feedback would be greatly appreciated. I think it's an asfur or a maculosis, but I can't tell which since the rear fin and stripe are both white at this point? I've found examples online of white bar maculosis and white bar asfur angels, but they seem to be extremely rare/expensive. This particular fish was purchased at petco for an undersized tank, and exchanged homes a couple times before it ended up here... so I would be VERY surprised if this is truly a white bar. How far do maculosis / asfur angels go through their change in adult colors before the bar turns yellow?

 

[lostanime]

And this question is purely based on curiosity... this fish came from a friend and wont be "flipped" for profit, I'm just interested in knowing more because I'm having trouble finding any pictures of them changing, etc with solid white tails and bars. All of the pictures I can find are yellow tail or yellow bar when changing, and the tail color is normally indicative of which angel it is.

 

[tcmfish]

White bar mac, not too umcommon or pricy, just cool They trickle into the aquarium trade, usually captive raised in Taiwan.

 

[kirkaz]

Very cool fish.....Hey Tim, do you know if the captive born ones are typically staying smaller? My Captive born Asfur has barely grown at all in 2 years compared to my other 2 angels.

 

[tcmfish]

Uh, macs get huge regardless it seems. But the asfur angels usually stay smaller no matter what. Seems to be a trend when people keep them in tanks. I don't know why. Interesting though.

The only big asfur I have ever seen pictures or in person in captivity, was a huge asfur angel the Shedd Aquarium had (I used to volunteer there and spent lots of time in front of that reef tank, because before their Philippines exhibit they didn't have many reef tanks). But that thing liked to munch! It would munch on almost all the corals in the tank, this was back when I didn't know much about angels in reef tanks and I thought maybe it was because the tank was large enough to allow the nipping, but I've gone back since a few times and it was removed, probably because of the nipping, but I don't know what they did with it. Must have been 15in. or so. Also, I assume they collected it big (I know some of the people would go collection trips to bring back fish for the displays... what a job), or ordered it big.

Maybe if people put an asfur in a big tank and give it time it'd grow big, or maybe people just aren't keeping them long enough, but I'm pretty sure copps has an asfur or did and it didn't seem too big either, and his fish usually live a long time. Its in his avatar.

Interesting though.

 

[lostanime]

Thank you Tim! That's exciting - I'm a bit partial to the white bars but never saw one available at local stores! The best $20 I've probably ever spent :lol:

 

[copps]

Yeap... a pond bred (not tank bred) white bar mac from Taiwan... this was originally a very rare color morph in the wild that is now being offered in big numbers from Taiwan and just a few times more expensive that regular macs... they are also raising asfurs, but have not bred out the white bar of those yet... those remain uber rare... asfurs have always been a favorite of mine and grow slowly and stay smaller generally... 20 years ago when I was a kid I would see some asfurs for $1000 or more... about three times the price of a clarion!

Copps

 

[scchase]

Yea my Asfur is slow growing as well I believe I believe I have had it for 7 or 8 years and the LFS had it a year before that and its only just now pushing 7" fat and happy as can be.

 

[Vili_Shark]

Thank you Tim! That's exciting - I'm a bit partial to the white bars but never saw one available at local stores! The best $20 I've probably ever spent :lol:

What is the size of the fish in the picture?
Can you get a better shot?

Macs from kenya change colors larger than Macs from the Red Sea.
Even after they change the color, they still carry some stripes for awhile.

White bar Macs are very common from the captive bred Taiwan farm.
They stay white bars for life.

White bar Asfur the only one I heard about, changed back to Yellow in the aquarium.
There was also a non bar Asfur, but it arrived in bad condition and died.
Amazing fish that I wish I could buy.

 

[copps]

The opposite of your no bar asfur Vili... the FAT bar asfur... check it out!

 

[Vili_Shark]

The opposite of your no bar asfur Vili... the FAT bar asfur... check it out!

I've seen Asfurs with even more fat bars than this one, but never saw the yellow on the back.

BTW in HK they like the narrow bar Asfurs better than the wide bars.

There is a sole importer for Red Sea fish, each shipment have more than 100pcs of Asfurs coming in.

 

[copps]

Yes and the form of the dorsal fin appears to be more maculosus than asfur... sorry for the hijack lostanime!

My whitebar mac I got just barely postlarval it seems and he's grown to good size now...

 

[Vili_Shark]

Yes and the form of the dorsal fin appears to be more maculosus than asfur... sorry for the hijack lostanime!

My whitebar mac I got just barely postlarval it seems and he's grown to good size now...

Yeah, the Taiwan farm are selling them at small sizes, actually the white bars they are sometimes rasing to larger sizes and then sell them for higher prices.
I remember I saw the white bar macs were the largest macs they had on their stok list once.

I was after a white bar Asfur, as Asfur is one of my fav angelfish, but couldnt get any.
I was thrilled over the non bar, but it died in the importers shop short after coming.

 

[Sheol]

That is a really nice P. asfur John! But of course, you always select the best, so no surprise there. I like the bright blue patch that looks almost like a Queen Angel's crown.

Matthew

 

[lostanime]

What is the size of the fish in the picture?
Can you get a better shot?

It's tiny, a hair under 3"

Sorry for the grainy shot... I'm DSLR-tarded.

We've only had this angel 3 months.

 

[WuHT]

Nice Mac.

What i'm getting outta this thread.. is for those of us who wish for a pomacanthus but dont have too large a tank.. should look into an asfur ?

 

[tcmfish]

I'd agree with that WuHT

 

[lostanime]

sorry for the hijack lostanime!

I'm smitten for angels, and really enjoying the conversation