Another "Get off my lawn" moment from the washed-up: ULNS??

[galleon]

Someone want to clue me in here? For real this time, no trolling or ranting. Zeovit? Zeolite? Poisoning zooxanthellae?

So the basics behind the system are a carbon-based heterotrophic microbial export of N, P, etc., in the same spirit of the labile carbon dosing that has been around quite a while?

 

[Allmost]

correct, probiotic, carbon dosing, and ... are all the same idea ... Zeovit has been around as far as carbon dosing has been around.

if you are looking for origin, it was started in Italy, European reefers are familiar with it.

its important to not confuse different things. Zeovit basic is carbon dosing, and nothing else. its organic carbon source, bacteria, and zeoliths which have pores large enough for bacteria to colonize.

then there are other additives like Zeospure2, which actually poisons Zoox algae whichmakes corals look lighter. 2 different things

for more info on carbon dosing, this is a great ARTICLE

 

[NeilFox]

Someone want to clue me in here? For real this time, no trolling or ranting. Zeovit? Zeolite? Poisoning zooxanthellae?

So the basics behind the system are a carbon-based heterotrophic microbial export of N, P, etc., in the same spirit of the labile carbon dosing that has been around quite a while?

Pretty much what you said. I'm not a fan, but it has a following. I don't care for the appearance of many of the Zeovit tanks, with a few acceptions. It looks artificial. I won't knock anyone for doing it though.

 

[reefgeezer]

I'm afraid no one can actually explain how the Zeo process works, but it's hard to argue that it doesn't work. I'd do the Zeo thing if I wasn't so cheap!

I'm trying the cheaper alternative for now. The tank has been ULNS via carbon dosing and GFO for a year, but SPS color and growth still suck. I'm just starting to add potassium (KCL) and amino acids (Pohls extra for now) in an effort to improve them. If I see improvement, I might also include iodine/iodide (maybe Lugols), and possibly some iron. By then, I might be spending nearly as much as I would if I used the Zeo system. :debi:

 

[bogg]

Zeovit works well it's been great Ime over the last 10 years and I actually found a good way to do it without going crazy dosing wise$$
It's just that because it works well (a good thing) you can overdo it too similar to other methods also
The additives are incredible Ime

 

[galleon]

So a lot of the ULNS system I see, some of the more Easter egg ones, the corals don't look healthy. Bleached and starved. And that you bleach them on purpose with zeo? Bleaching corals makes absolutely no sense for me whatsoever.

 

[karsseboom]

I find it funny that after keeping Sps for 15 years your still unfamiliar with how the zeovit systems works or most ulns for that matter. It's all up to personal prefrence on how your colors will look using zeovit. I have seen hundreds of different zeovit tanks over the years and they come in all shapes and colors. They are not starved corals, Infact zeo tanks have some of the best growth and polyp extension out of the various methods people use. It's not just a strip the water down to nothing and get pale corals, it's a balanced approach that exports what it imports. I would think after being in this hobby for 15yrs your would have seen all the amazing results people have got using the system and
Understood the concept.

 

[sirreal63]

Zeo can work but in almost 10 years with SPS I have never tried, never wanted to either, nor have I read much on it. In the early days here with it there was almost a zealot following and I don't want to have to wrap tinfoil around my head so I skipped it, listening to people who went Zeo in the early days left a bad taste in my mouth for it.

It is one of several ways to run a tank but I agree if not done correctly it can lead to pale corals, if done correctly it can lead to beautiful, deep rich colored corals. Fortunately it isn't hard to get that same deep coloration without the Zeo products.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Zeo can work but in almost 10 years with SPS I have never tried, never wanted to either, nor have I read much on it. In the early days here with it there was almost a zealot following and I don't want to have to wrap tinfoil around my head so I skipped it, listening to people who went Zeo in the early days left a bad taste in my mouth for it.

It is one of several ways to run a tank but I agree if not done correctly it can lead to pale corals, if done correctly it can lead to beautiful, deep rich colored corals. Fortunately it isn't hard to get that same deep coloration without the Zeo products.

Agreed... It's little more than overpriced carbon dosing and unfounded additive use in my opinion. I experimented with carbon dosing enough in the early days to feel that there are better ways to achieve similar results.

 

[galleon]

I find it funny that after keeping Sps for 15 years your still unfamiliar with how the zeovit systems works or most ulns for that matter.

Was never interested in Zeo. Didn't know tanks using carbon dosing to reduce the dissolved inorganic nutrient fraction to lower levels than are typically found in aquaria water columns had gotten a qualitatively incorrect and stupid, cheesy moniker (ULNS). The correct term is oligotrophic. You should be able to find it in any first semester ecology text.

They are not starved corals, Infact zeo tanks have some of the best growth and polyp extension out of the various methods people use.

Please provide a primary reference stating that polyp extension is a reliable proxy for coral nutritive needs being fulfilled. I would also like quantitative results that zeo leads to better growth. Your aggressive post has highlighted that even if you really want to go to the level of argumentum ad hominem, with respect to the topic at hand: the burden of proof is in your court. Now provide objective, quantitative evidence to support your hypotheses.

It's not just a strip the water down to nothing and get pale corals, it's a balanced approach that exports what it imports.

How can you make that claim when you have no idea what is in the solutions? What strains are used in the solutions and why? "Balanced" has zero scientific or quantitative merit or meaning as a husbandry term. You, my friend, are drinking kool aid.

I would think after being in this hobby for 15yrs your would have seen all the amazing results people have got using the system and
Understood the concept.

I see a lot of what we refer to in science as possible confirmation bias. I see meticulous husbandry that leads to pretty tanks with live and growing corals or coral success regardless of method.

If you want to try to get nutrient levels down to the concentrations they exist in the mid Pacific reefs, unless you can match the level of heterotrophy that corals receive their C, N and P from in such low dissolved nutrient condition...

 

[karsseboom]

Was never interested in Zeo. Didn't know tanks using carbon dosing to reduce the dissolved inorganic nutrient fraction to lower levels than are typically found in aquaria water columns had gotten a qualitatively incorrect and stupid, cheesy moniker (ULNS). The correct term is oligotrophic. You should be able to find it in any first semester ecology text.

The levels people get when they say ULNS are undetectable on a standard trident est kit. The ocean has pretty low nutrients so I wouldn't say zeovit drives them down lower then what found in areas the corals are found in. The idea is to match NSW levels.

Please provide a primary reference stating that polyp extension is a reliable proxy for coral nutritive needs being fulfilled. I would also like quantitative results that zeo leads to better growth. Your aggressive post has highlighted that even if you really want to go to the level of argumentum ad hominem, with respect to the topic at hand: the burden of proof is in your court. Now provide objective, quantitative evidence to support your hypotheses.

We all now that polyp extension is not always the best way to monitor a corals health but it can be a good indicator. From a personal experience I have watched my Sps closly and I can tell when things are not right my polyps will be retracted. The following is usually stn. What conclusion should I make based on that experience?

You claimed in your post that the corals looked starved and unhealthy. Would and unhealthy coral be growing and thriving? Would a tank full of unhealty, starved corals be granted TOTM I'm various forums?

Does this looked starved and unhealty?

How can you make that claim when you have no idea what is in the solutions? What strains are used in the solutions and why? "Balanced" has zero scientific or quantitative merit or meaning as a husbandry term. You, my friend, are drinking kool aid.

Why would zeovit have an reason to reveal what in there products? How would that being it there market share? Do we know what's in everything we add to our systems? We do know there is a carbon source which reduces no3 and po4, we know there is zeobak which is a bacteria source (microorganisms) that is used to colonize the stones we place in the reactor. We do know the other additives contain amino acids and other various coral food. The system isn't a secret. All those additives are already proven to lower po4 and no3. We already know amino acids can help feed our corals.

I see a lot of what we refer to in science as possible confirmation bias. I see meticulous husbandry that leads to pretty tanks with live and growing corals or coral success regardless of method.

Oh you mean like this one? Looks pretty unhealthy

If you want to try to get nutrient levels down to the concentrations they exist in the mid Pacific reefs, unless you can match the level of heterotrophy that corals receive their C, N and P from in such low dissolved nutrient condition...

And that is the whole entire base for the system. You create a low nutrient environment like the ocean. You then replace what the system removes by adding elements like amino acids and other means to feed your corals. There are other color tweaking additives they sell and no I can't prove the ingredients or if they are problems to work but I also don't use most of them. The basic system does do what it claims, its up to you if that's the route you want to take with your system.

 

[jazzman7838]

Those are definitely nice tanks, but the turquoise/purple sand has me thinking there is a bit more than Zeovit going on with the photos.

 

[jazzman7838]

then there are other additives like Zeospure2, which actually poisons Zoox algae whichmakes corals look lighter. 2 different things

I was under the impression that these were just small amounts of heavy metals, like copper/zinc/cobalt, somebody please correct me if wrong.

 

[karsseboom]

Those are definitely nice tanks, but the turquoise/purple sand has me thinking there is a bit more than Zeovit going on with the photos.

You think so? Here is one of those colony's

Straight out of water!

That tank is one of the most famous aquariums in the world. Those corals are well documented. The other picture was totm here on reef central.

 

[ryanrid]

Just add blue light....

 

[sahin]

The Zeovit system works. There are many tanks which prove this. I have used the system in the past and got the results I wanted.

However, having tried many organic carbon dosed systems; I much prefer to utilise the usual method: Liverock, protein skimmer, GFO and regular water changes.

With my current tank I utilised AZNO3 (which is most likely a sugar based product) it worked to reduce my NO3 levels from about 25ppm to less than 1ppm within a few weeks. I have a thread somewhere.

So, there are many methods and they do work.

In any event, I much prefer my corals to have deep colours, rather than the pale colours. However, not every Zeo system has pale colours.

 

[honkit]

After that circus of a thread with blue lights and so-called vast experiences in diving, the thread starter has created another trolling thread with ULNS.

Where I come from, the advise is if one has nothing constructive to say, it's best to shut up.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

After that circus of a thread with blue lights and so-called vast experiences in diving, the thread starter has created another trolling thread with ULNS.

Where I come from, the advise is if one has nothing constructive to say, it's best to shut up.

ridiculous! Heed your own advice.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

That tank is one of the most famous aquariums in the world. Those corals are well documented. The other picture was totm here on reef central.

who's aquarium is this? Got a link to the TOTM article on it?

 

[sirreal63]

Where I come from, the advise is if one has nothing constructive to say, it's best to shut up.

You mean like the post you just made? This thread has the real possibility to help others learn at least something about the Zeo system, that is if people can resist the urge to turn it into something else.