<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13005745#post13005745 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
There is not $100,000 tax deductions for Hummers! I call Bulls hit
You are missing my points. Today... they have gas guzzler taxes on a few expensive cars but, if we continue down this road of trying to over compensate for this overblown crisis (while almost 2 billion people don't have to follow any rules in China and India) they will be taxing alot more normal cars. And they will be raising taxes on utility bills in the name of AGW. They will do alot of things in the name of AGW.
They do not have a better standard of living in Europe! And, their healthcare is not 1/4 the cost. I can get needed surgery TODAY here... by a well paid, highly qualified surgeon. That won't happen in Europe or Canada or any other socialized country. There are two problems with our system... The first one is the lawyers and the second one is the Cadillac health plans started by the unions. We use health insurance for a cold or a bruise and that drives the cost up. If we used our car insurance for oil changes and tuneups... it would cost alot more than $100 bucks a month. Do you really want to put healthcare and the money in the hands of the government? You want to see how much something can really cost??? Just make it free! Rationing of healthcare is a reality in those socialized countries. Many people come here when they need care. If you make it less profitable to try to attain profitability... people will stop trying. Or they will leave. Have you noticed that most very successful people leave the UK and get citizenship here? That is because their highest marginal tax rate is nearly 90%. So instead of charging them 40% and getting good tax revenue... they chase all of it away.
There's no magic to numbers. When they raise taxes on the "rich & the "evil corporations" to pay for all of these ideas... They will either cut payroll or raise prices. Either way, it's you and me paying for it. When and if a socialist gets into office and starts raising taxes like taking capital gains from 15% to 28% like he already said he would do... You watch the sell off. You watch the hundreds of undercapitalized companies go out of business... when the stock market takes a 25% drop.
Mark my words... If you get what you want... you'll regret it in twenty years. But, it'll be too late.
1. Yes, there are about $100,000 in tax credits for buying a Hummer. Im not saying one person qualifies for all of them at once, but they are there. For instance: There is a chinese restaurant near me that makes alot of money (The owner is a millionaire now), and a few years ago, you know what he picked up as his delivery vehicle fleet? Hummer H2's. Now, I used to date his daughter back in high-school, so he knows me, and I asked him, "how can that be economical?". His response was that as a business owner, he gets more tax credits for using one of those than if he were to buy Honda Civics.
2. Have you been to Europe? Yes, it is easier to move up economic class in Europe. That is something many US publications have documented over recent years. CNN, New York Times, etc...
http://www.thedigeratilife.com/blog...ealth-make-you-upper-class-facts-about-class/
"I was terribly surprised to find that in a study involving households in 5 developed nations followed through 4 generations: the United Kingdom, United States, France, Canada and Denmark â€" the U.S. scored almost the lowest in terms of class mobility. Though the U.K. had the lowest standing, its scores weren’t that far off from the U.S. This just means that it was easier to get out of poverty in France, Canada and Denmark than it was in the U.S. and the U.K."
^^^ and, recently, the UK's 'class mobility' rating has gone up according to CNN, also higher than the US's.
3. As for your health care beliefs, you are far off. You can not get surgery TODAY unless your provider gives approval first, and this may or may not happen, pending an investigation. Recently I was denied for turbinate reduction surgery... because it was not seen as 'needed' for my 'ability to live', even though living with rhinitis is a total drag. So I could wait a little and use my next insurance, but how much do you want to bet that it will be deemed a 'pre-existing condition'?
Unlike your general scoffing, and disbelief that isnt backed by any fact, I can prove what I say is true:
http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news03/health_costs.html
Also note that their life expectancy and health care quality rankings are higher than ours. Ours is being beat by Cuba currently since we rank #37 by the WHO, France and Canada both in the top 10.
I see that you have bought into the propaganda that Nixon started though (and Reagan perpetuated)... that a 'private system is more competitive and provides better care.' BS. On the contrary, using health insurance for minor problems is a good thing. Those small visits are a good thing, and are a minimal cost. They provide a means for your doctor to give you a small 'check up', as many dont go in for a yearly physical even. This can be used to prevent many problems before they get serious, and then cost alot of money in the ER. Statements like these are what they WANT you to believe: "Do you really want to put healthcare and the money in the hands of the government? You want to see how much something can really cost??? Just make it free!"
^^^ Uh, yeah, thats how it is in Canada, UK, France, etc. I hear this argument all the time... 'do you want a government employee doing heart surgery?' with the idea that you wouldnt want a city works or garbage man working on your heart...lol. Keep in mind that the US military has a socialized medical system that is perhaps the finest around, and that government employees also consist of NSA, CIA, FBI, Military, and a slew of other people in positions that are very good at what they do. Garbage men... yeah, nice try, lol. Its FREE in those other countries. No, there are not problems with 'getting in' or 'quality of care' (what, you think people just go in for the hell of it?), and the higher level of access is actually better for prevention than ER visits later on. What, you think private companies dont ration more in the name of their profitability? The numbers that other nations are showing is that socialized medicine is actually lowering its cost. As it is, we pay alot for it... some would argue enough exists in the current budget to cover it by simply cutting out the private organizations. Last year, the US spent about 700 billion on 'Health and Human Services'. A good deal of that is because the people who need health care the most cant pay for it. Think about it... you come down with an illness and lose your job... where does your healthcare come from? When you get old? When you are disabled? When you are on a limited income and your employer cant afford to give it to you? Gee, it seems like the only people that a private system really helps are the ones who dont really need it... middle-upper income full time workers. What about the rest? The speculation is that HR 676 could be paid for with the current budget... that making it more available by covering EVERYONE rather than waiting until something is more serious would save the tax payer in the end. If someone wants even better health care, just to feel better than everyone else, there is still a market for supplimental insurance in the UK and other countries that allows for this. But the idea that everyone should have access at least, and not have it be a financial burden, is the basis of these other systems.
Do some research before you post your opinions which are clearly based on propaganda.
Back on topic: If you follow the money trail with many of the 'global warming scoffers', you will find propaganda was the main idea as well. The Competitive Enterprise Institute, a nonprofit advocating limited government regulation, and other groups that have downplayed the risks of greenhouse emissions, were funded billions of dollars by companies like Exxon, Chevron, etc.; Sort of a 'joint venture startup' if you will, to skew public opinion. Also note that this POV is pretty much only in the US, and every other country in the world is on the other side of the fence already. Hmmm... connect the dots anyone? So, some people in the US dont believe global warming because they read it on some website or something (something that most likely came from oil company spending), and only in the US is there this 'global warming scoffing' going on... MAYBE THEY ARE RELATED! Similar marketing has been done to suggest that a Hummer is more 'environmental' than a Prius... which several research institutions decided to follow up on and found it was pure marketing hype. The debate is that the battery in the Prius, NiMH for the current generation, contains nickel, a substance that requires some very nasty mining. Truth is, the frame of the Hummer contains about 3x the nickel (used for coating Stainless Steel) than a Prius battery...lol. And future versions will have lithium ion and lithium polymer, or Li-Fiber batteries (oh, no, were going to run out of lithium then!). The good news is that Exxon, Texaco, and Chevron have all pulled funding from CEI, as well as other groups.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=2