Antibiotic treatment as a prophylaxis

[beuchat]

Hi

Some weeks ago I received a green gigantea by courier and put him into DT. He was deflated so I treated him with cypro. The nem recovered but after three days from returned to DT he deflated again, another treatment was arraged but he could not survive. Later I treated the tank with ozone and installed a UV sterilizer

In two days I will get a new green gigantea and I do not want him to go throuh all this again.My question is about what is recommended: treat the nem before placing into the DT as a prophylaxis or just place him in DT and in case of abnormal behaviour remove him and start the treatment.

The question is about the hypothesis of the nem carrying pathogens, then a prophylaxis treatment will kill them before entering in the DT. But if the nem is placed in DT and is carrying pathogens, although he is removed and treated then he will get sick again when transfered back to DT

But maybe the treatment should not be started unless there is a deflating behaviour after placed in DT

¿Any ideas/recommendations?

Thanks

 

[nemguy]

I always treat my gigs upon arrival now so even if they are not sick the antibiotic will kill any other bacteria that may be on the anemone how long did you treat for I usually do 10 days of treatment for gigs they are very fragile until it acclimates to your system.


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[beuchat]

Antibiotic treatment as a prophylaxis

I treated him for 6 days. Some years ago I had the same issue: the nem recovered with the antibiotic but when returned to DT he defflates completly


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[nemguy]

Because sometimes if you don't treat long enough you don't kill all of the bacteria and what is left over re infects the nem


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[beuchat]

Ok, so the problem is not the pathogen in the DT. The problem is that the immune system of the nem is able to get rid of them in the presence of the antibiotics but when stressed, after the shipment and placed in DT, the immune system is not able to handle the infection. So, maybe this is different as when treating the fishes with coper or chloroquine phosphate in QT in order not to transfer the ich to DT


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[taylor t]

There are still some that don't agree with medicating from the start regardless. For me, IF, I was to obtain more gigs, I'd treat with cipro every single one of them, as soon as I got my hands on them, no matter what. That's just me though. 7 days, full treatment is what I'd do, no matter what. But, you will always find some who are against this school of thought, and are still successful. I have yet to hear of a good valid reason (to me) for not treating. Work and cost don't count as a valid reason. All of mine have been treated.

 

[ThRoewer]

I only treat sick anemones. Any unnecessary treatment poses a risk in one way or the other. This is not like a vaccination, but rather serious chemotherapy.
I reserve cipro as the last line of defense.

Of the 4 gigs I have in my system 2 needed treatment and 2 not.
I just got another one from LA and so far I'm not sure if I have to treat. It looked bad upon arrival, but after a 100% water change it recovered nicely.

 

[beuchat]

I only treat sick anemones. Any unnecessary treatment poses a risk in one way or the other. This is not like a vaccination, but rather serious chemotherapy.
I reserve cipro as the last line of defense.

Of the 4 gigs I have in my system 2 needed treatment and 2 not.
I just got another one from LA and so far I'm not sure if I have to treat. It looked bad upon arrival, but after a 100% water change it recovered nicely.

Hi, in those two wich needed cypro, did they get sick in DT, then treated or were traeted before entering in DT?

 

[ThRoewer]

Every new anemone goes for at least month into quarantine before it enters my DT. Many I had for several months. in QT
The ones that needed treatment showed symptoms right away and I had to start treatment the day I got them.
Treatment is always administered for 7 days regardless how the anemone looks. It is like with antibiotic treatments your doctor prescribes you - you have to take them all the way even if you already feel better. If you stop early some bacteria may survive and develop immunity against the antibiotic. As a result the antibiotic will be without effect if you have to treat again.

 

[beuchat]

Ok thanks

I have arranged a QT in a special way. It is a 15 gal tank with a external canister filter.In order to avoid any pathogen bacteria to be present in the water I have inoculated bottled bacteria (a mix of Seachem Stability , Microbe-lif Nite Out II and Aquaforest Bio S). Then I have been adding ammonium chloride monitoring amonia and nutrite until the filter was cycled. No life rock or life sand or any organic matter to avoid any harmfull bacteria to be introduced

I am planning to use this QT to place the nem after arrival. My concern is that if the nem get sick because he was carrying bad bactaria and is removed from QT to HT, when transfered back to QT he will be infected again with the harmfull bacteria that the nem transfered to QT water before


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[ThRoewer]

You way over think this.
All you need is a naked tank, a flow pump and a heater.
Additionally you may want to install a separator to prevent the anemone from getting in contact with the heater or the pump.
Further more you will need some light.
I usually also install a small skimmer.
Another thing I found extremely helpful is a ceramic dish and a piece of a ceramic flowerpot to which the anemone can attach.

A filter is rather counter productive as it is a bacteria breeding ground. Daily water changes are far more effective to keep the water clean.

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[nemguy]

You way

A filter is rather counter productive as it is a bacteria breeding ground. Daily water changes are far more effective to keep the water clean.

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Agreed but I always treat my gigs upon arrival too but I've never got one from a LFS I always order mine if I were to get one from a LFS I might go with your way and wait it out but the only thing my stores bring in are magnificas upon my request and haddons they don't get gigs so I'm stuck ordering online and treating for 7 days each time :/



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[beuchat]

Ok, thanks for the answers


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[beuchat]

The gigantea arrived yesterday. Really in bad shape. The water in the bag was brown and the nem was looking like a fried egg:






This is the QT with the canister filter sheeded with bottled bacteria:




I was going to place him in the QT but after seeing what a received I placed the nem in HT with cypro at 3 mg/gal

Yesterday:






Today after the water change with new antibiotic, he has dettached from the rock. The mouth is open and the body is plattered:








I have doubs about the nem thay sent me is the one in the picture the shown to me before the shipping:

 

[ThRoewer]

I would suggest to dump the canister filter as, unless you clean and sterilize it with every water change, it will just give a safe haven to the pathogens. Water changes and/or running a skimmer is IME more important than a filter.
I'm just treating a smaller gigantea in a 2 gallon tank. The small volume makes it easier to do 100% water changes once or twice a day. Only the dosing is a bit trickier, but doable with a decent milligram scale (I got a decent one from Amazon).

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[beuchat]

The nem is not in the QT. I palced it inthe HT with no biological filter. I am doing daily water changes. This is the current status of the gigantea. Not looking really good:

 

[nemguy]

Keep up with cipro and water changes check for ammonia I've had them come back from looking like that can take 2-3 days from sick ones like that to show some signs on improvement I will hit them with strong flow so it will blow them around the tank and once they perk up a bit they attach but strong flow on him will stop disintegration and melting so kick up the flow


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[nemguy]

Also where you get him from?


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[ThRoewer]

That one looks bad.
You should install a skimmer or do more frequent water changes. A skimmer often worked wonders for me.
With the little one I'm treating right now I can't use a skimmer due to the small size of the tank. I rather have to rely on 100% water changes whenever the water looks cloudy or the anemone looks bad. After a water change it has so far always come back.

 

[nemguy]

Yeah it's so hard to control the ammonia in the small tanks without filtration I've never used a skimmer before maybe I'll try that on the 2 I'm treating now and new ones coming in a few days


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