Antibiotic treatment for a sick H. magnifica

[OrionN]

I try to give the anemone enough light so that it does well even during treatment. I have natural right so I use it. I would give it as much light as I can, artificial or natural.

I got both of my Gigantea from them, and the Magnifica also. Erick told me that he may try to bring more Gigantea directly from Indonesia. I will let you know if this is the case.

 

[OrionN]

Sick Brown Magnifica

Sick Brown Magnifica

The LFS her in Corpus Christi have a sick Magnifica. It was deflating in the store and is about to fall of the front wall of the aquarium, almost completely deflated. I am trying to get a protocol establish to treat sick anemone that I think are infected so I asked them to let me treat this one. If I can get it well again, I will bring it back to them. I really don't have the room for him right now.

From my experiences with taken care of these anemones, this one is a dead anemone that is barely moving. It will died soon enough if there is nothing done. I have been at he store about 2 weeks or so. I did not have a picture of him in the store but I did put him directly into my hospital tank (HT) which I just took down Sunday. Below are pictures of the anemone in HT about 1 hrs after I put him there, a full tank picture and a picture of him 6 hrs later. I added medication as soon as I took the first picture. I took BonsaiNut advice and added a air stone to increase air exchange in the HT.

The treatment protocol is the same. Ciprofloxacin 25 mg/gal and 50% water change daily with water from QT which is a reeftank. I moved the tank a little to the side so that it can get full sun exposure in AM. I also light this tank with a 75W equivalent Daylight (5500K) florescent screw-in bulb and a 20 W LED flood light 14,000K in color. You can see the configuration of both of these light on top of the FTS. I plan to treat this anemone for 7 days also, like the last one. I will try update daily or every few days.

10/16/2012 1 hr after added into HT. No medication yet

10/16/2012 FTS of HT with divider, air stone, heater and PH for circulation

10/16/2012 6 hrs later in HT

 

[Rippinfrags]

This is pretty interesting, thanks for all of the hardwork Minh. I really appreciate it and I'm sure your anemones will to!

 

[OrionN]

10/17 update
The brown anemone is not doing well. It is a glob on the bottom of the tank and put out a lot of necrotic stuff from it's gut as evidence but the stuff that I suction out and the water a little cloudy form the semisolid from his abdominal cavity, and the water surface is full of bubbles. If I have a protein skimmer on this tank, it will pull out a lot.. I think I will change more than 50% of the water just because of this.

10/17/2012 sad looking brown magnifica

10/17/2012 necrotic stuff from the anemone

 

[Reefvette]

Mihn this is the purge i was talking about. I would do a 100 percent water change with new Salt water and more antibiotics.

That is the stuff i was talking about where bad bacteria is feeding off.

It should begin to look better.

In regards to the air i would def reccommend you use it. It helps keeping the water oxygenated.

 

[velvetelvis]

Nothing helpful to add, but this is a fascinating thread. I really hope you can pull that magnifica through!

 

[D-Nak]

Ah, I wish that "purge" could be sent somewhere for a biopsy. Thanks for posting Minh, your dedication will help this hobby tremendously.

 

[Reefvette]

D-Nak

D-Nak

No reason to send it out. Ive done all the leg work.

That is decaying food/fecal matter. This stuff is nasty.

In one of the largest mertens ive gotten i found these blobs and one with noticable bones from fish. If you ever have a chance to see an anemone eat a whole fish and spit it out after digestion. Thats what the waste looks like.

Im assuming when they are collected they do not expel this because they are trying to use up most of the energy derived from the food. That food staying in gut begins to decay and that where the anti biotics come in.

At some point today i will post up pics of Mertens in various stages of QT.

 

[OrionN]

I agree with Reefvette. That nasty stuff is just decaying organs and tissue from the anemone. It have been at least 2 weeks since this anemone eat so I doubt that there is any "food" in there. How ever, it will be difficult to tell what is what.
If I have the capability, I would love to culture these tissue to ID any bacterial growing in that mess.

As Reefvette suggested, I did a 95% plus water change and added 250 mg ciprofloxacin. The amount of water change is almost 10 gal. Will update tomorrow. One person question if the last anemone (purple with yellow tip) was really sick. There is no question that this anemone is at death's door. The picture below is after the water change and he is looking a little better.

10/17/2012 After water change and medication added.

On a brighter note, my Purple Magnifica with yellow tip is doing beautifully. I cannot be any happier how that treatment turn out.

 

[D-Nak]

No reason to send it out. Ive done all the leg work.

That is decaying food/fecal matter. This stuff is nasty.

In one of the largest mertens ive gotten i found these blobs and one with noticable bones from fish. If you ever have a chance to see an anemone eat a whole fish and spit it out after digestion. Thats what the waste looks like.

Im assuming when they are collected they do not expel this because they are trying to use up most of the energy derived from the food. That food staying in gut begins to decay and that where the anti biotics come in.

At some point today i will post up pics of Mertens in various stages of QT.

Can you share the results of your biopsy?

Here's what I am wondering:

1. What type, if any, bacteria is present?
2. Is there any dead zoox?
3. Is the food fully digested or only partially digested?
4. The assumption is that anemones die from the inside out, does this "blob" include anemone parts?

While it may look the same, I think the blob from a healthy anemone will be quite different from that of a sick one in terms of chemical composition. Comparing the two will help tremendously.

<b>"Im assuming when they are collected they do not expel this because they are trying to use up most of the energy derived from the food. That food staying in gut begins to decay and that where the anti biotics come in."</b>

I tend to think that all anemones ALWAYS try to utilize the maximum amount of energy derived from the food and once they are done processing the food the waste is expelled. Since they don't have a brain, they don't "know" what's happening to them. Therefore, they do not have the understanding of storing food within their bodies or not to release waste because they are in a confined space. Furthermore, they don't have the ability to anticipate their next meal.

 

[D-Nak]

I agree with Reefvette. That nasty stuff is just decaying organs and tissue from the anemone. It have been at least 2 weeks since this anemone eat so I doubt that there is any "food" in there. How ever, it will be difficult to tell what is what.

I think you meant to say that you don't agree with Reefvette. He is saying that it's food/fecal matter while you are saying it's dead anemone tissue. Is that correct?

I don't want to derail this particular conversation any further with our assumptions on the analysis of the "blob" but I do think it's relevant and deserves a thread of its own.

 

[Reefvette]

D-Nak,

I didnt send this too a lab for anaylsis. After noticing the purge i began to cut apart these blobs and found bone, and scales.

Also you have to remember guys from collection point to wholesalers/retailers tank can sometimes be two days or weeks. Anemones can store food for weeks. The problem is that when they are collected a cycle of constant change and un ample care is started. No light low light, low flow.

What i am starting to think is that they hold these bits of food inside as storage for energy. That when it spoils.

Anemones are like a bag if there is no damage internally no tissue will be exposed. They are like a plastic bag inside a plastic bag as long as the plastic bag aka stomach is not punctured tissue will not be exposed. When there is a tear in the stomach that is certain death and when you will see exposed tissue.

 

[OrionN]

I agree with Reefvette in the sense that the stuff that come out are decaying stuff. This particular anemone, it is likely decaying organs since it is quite a while ago that he ate. We know that if anemone cannot digest the food, they regurgitate it quickly (with in 24 hrs). We seen plenty of this keeping anemone and overfeed them or feed them when they are not ready to eat.
Some of the dark coloration can be due to Zooxanthellae. For one reason or another, anemone something dumps their zxooxanthellae. We also have seen this happened in our tank when they really stressed. It is possible that these zooxanthellae died and then casted out by the anemone. We know that healthy Haddoni dump out fish bone and snail shell very often. I have seen this in my tank often.

The bottom line is that if they eaten recently, these could be food but if weeks since they eaten, it just necrotic tissue from the anemone. Most important information we can get from these, IMO, is what the pathogen are so that we can tailor treatment accordingly.

Do I know for sure that these anemones are infected with a bacterial? No I don't but my educated guess is that it is almost certain that bacterial is the major cause for these illness and these anemones demise.

 

[Reefvette]

This is only helping the hobby!

Anemones are amongst the most difficult to keep alive especially when they are large. For every 1 healthy here is 5 unhealthy.

I attribute this to lack of knowledge when collecting anemones. And then in the whole supply chain.

They require such specific flow, placement, and light details. No one can afford to do that commercially where these anemones are collected.

So for now this treatment procedure minh and i and beuford are doing is critical to rasing the mortality rate of the animals.

Minh when i see zooxanthella its mostly stringly. Never on globs.

 

[OrionN]

Not any better. Nothing solid coming out but the water is somewhat cloudy and a lot of bubbles from dissolved solutes. Maybe it was too late when I start him on treatment. Normally without treatment he would have come apart by now. Even with treatment, I am not sure that he will improve. With the dissolved nutrient and available light, brown algae start to grow.
I will do another 100% water change later today.

The Purple Mag is excellent. I av not feed him yet but will later today.

Brown Magifica near death

Purple Magnifica looks very nice

 

[Reefvette]

Hey

Hey

This is the other thing i was talking about. Sometimes you just cant judge and some are too sick.

We had a 2 inch mertens that was healthy but went into our display. I did a 24 hour dip and put him right in and no problems with getting the other anemone sick.

 

[OrionN]

Sorry I got the thumbnail instead of the actual picture before

 

[Winwood]

No advice, as I think you are doing a wonderful think documenting the treatment of these animals. Good luck though!

 

[OrionN]

Well, the Brown Magifica is no more. Friday I came to the office and the tank was full of bubble like soap solution. I took a quick picture and try to do a water change but the anemone is lifeless. Completely still. Living anemone is still water move some tentacles. The anemone was dead, completely still. I was getting ready to go Camp-out with our Boy Scout troop right after work Friday so I cannot post anything due to lack time.
I took him out and put up the quarantine. Clean it and dry it wait for the next sick anemone. I think he was too far gone before I got to him. He was falling off the glass front he attached to.

My observation:
Regarding the smell of a dead anemone. This is resulting from the bacterial breaking down the tissue inside the anemone. That result in the smell that we all know so well and the anemone breaking apart when we try to pick it up. With treatment, this bacterial growth was suppressed almost completely. The Brown Magnifica did not smell very much and stay intact when I pick him out of the water. Nevertheless it was lifeless and dead. Too much tissue damage to the inner organs. I saw him shed these, day after day, each day was worst then the previous day.
If I have more time, I could attempt to do water change twice a day instead of once a day. I am not sure if this would make any different on the outcome.

This last treatment was a case of dead in 1-2 days vs dead in 5-7 days. No improvement in outcome.

 

[OrionN]

Last picture. Death of the brown Magnifica