Any bare bottom tank fans?

[ormet]

I don't buy that fish color thing for a second. Also im a diver, i have been on plenty of reefs where there is no sand to be seen. That "natural sandy ecosystem" look is not fact, its preference. Nothing wrong with having a preference for sand!

I love BB for ease of maintenance but i sometimes really want sand for keeping certain fish such as burrowing wrasses, shrimp/goby pairs and Scooter blennys, thats for sure.

The most important thing when going BB is to provide high flow. If not, the glass bottom will be filled with green algae from my experience.

If believing a white substrate would magically color your fish, do what i did and add white acrylic on the bottom:

 

[wideawake]

Ormet,
What are your methods of directing high flow to the aquarium floor?

 

[syrinx]

I don't buy that fish color thing for a second. Also im a diver, i have been on plenty of reefs where there is no sand to be seen. That "natural sandy ecosystem" look is not fact, its preference. Nothing wrong with having a preference for sand!

I love BB for ease of maintenance but i sometimes really want sand for keeping certain fish such as burrowing wrasses, shrimp/goby pairs and Scooter blennys, thats for sure.

The most important thing when going BB is to provide high flow. If not, the glass bottom will be filled with green algae from my experience.

If believing a white substrate would magically color your fish, do what i did and add white acrylic on the bottom:

Believe what you want- but the results are documentable, and repeatable. As I said- it is "some" fish that exhibit this reaction. You are correct that any white substrate will work well to correct this . Case in point- the gold spot rabbitfish Siganus guttatus, commonly will change color to match its surroundings. When over the sand- it is platinum-when over live rock it mutes, and against a black background it will lose all pattern. On a bare bottom tank, or tank with black gravel, it seldom shows it true coloration. The same is true for most of the silver based signus, ex; virgatus, punctatus,and doliatus. There are several tangs and a couple angels that exhibit this as well. I have no issues whatsoever with BB tanks- and run many. With proper flow there is never detritus on the bottom, and it does assist in having a low nutrient SPS reef. However, your choice not to believe facts, dilutes the veracity of all of your advice.

 

[syrinx]

I will also add this comment-while I have not personally experienced it, there is also room for the thought that some fish may show better coloration without sand. As you said-as a diver, some fish never are against a white background. These fish may well wash out with a white substrate-but I have not documented this.

 

[AcroporAddict]

I have a 465 gallon SPS tank that has been set up bare bottom as new. I originally did this so I could run my Vortech MP60s at full tilt. It got really old always redistributing the substrate after the Vortechs blew it around. One thing I have learned is it is always easier (and cleaner) to add substrate to a BB tank than it is to remove substrate from an existing tank. Old substrate attached to the LR will spill onto he tank bottom for months after you get the main stuff.

I love my BB tank. I have 4x MP60s and a ton of in-tank flow, and the bottom stays spotless, with the only cleaning of the bottom being pulling out pieces of coral that get knocked off by the fish. The bottom is a hybrid PVC/glass bottom, and I like the gray of the PVC bottom more than a bare glass bottom.

Fish coloration seems good, but I can't tell if I have any difference there vs a white sand bottom.

I also believe that nutrients are more manageable this way. For example, I converted my 300 from a substrate tank to a BB type a year or so before moving everything to this 465, and if you understand what ORP is, you will know how to correlate this with the presence of a substrate. My average ORP levels on this tank went up by 100 points after removing the substrate. That tells you a lot about how much organics a substrate even at 1-1.5 inches of depth can hold.

Here are a couple videos of the tank, first from 9/12 shortly after setup, and the second eleven months later, on 8/13.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab2Ib7aFN84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDEHvCqg9Y

 

[greaps]

I have a 465 gallon SPS tank that has been set up bare bottom as new. I originally did this so I could run my Vortech MP60s at full tilt. It got really old always redistributing the substrate after the Vortechs blew it around. One thing I have learned is it is always easier (and cleaner) to add substrate to a BB tank than it is to remove substrate from an existing tank. Old substrate attached to the LR will spill onto he tank bottom for months after you get the main stuff.

I love my BB tank. I have 4x MP60s and a ton of in-tank flow, and the bottom stays spotless, with the only cleaning of the bottom being pulling out pieces of coral that get knocked off by the fish. The bottom is a hybrid PVC/glass bottom, and I like the gray of the PVC bottom more than a bare glass bottom.

Fish coloration seems good, but I can't tell if I have any difference there vs a white sand bottom.

I also believe that nutrients are more manageable this way. For example, I converted my 300 from a substrate tank to a BB type a year or so before moving everything to this 465, and if you understand what ORP is, you will know how to correlate this with the presence of a substrate. My average ORP levels on this tank went up by 100 points after removing the substrate. That tells you a lot about how much organics a substrate even at 1-1.5 inches of depth can hold.

Here are a couple videos of the tank, first from 9/12 shortly after setup, and the second eleven months later, on 8/13.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab2Ib7aFN84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLDEHvCqg9Y

+1000, well done, great video, fish, corals, thank you for shareing

 

[rfgonzo]

I'm not a BB fan but I do like the concept of a BB. Has anyone ever experimented with sand epoxied to the bottom of a tank? (like a rock wall) This would give the look of sand but still be easy to keep clean.

 

[Ross33]

I have had both and my fish did NOT have any shift in color. I find it much easier to "fine tune" my nitrates and phosphates by leaving however much detritus on the bottom I want. I love bb. Coralline and encrusting montis covering the bottom looks much better than dirty sand IMO.

 

[ormet]

Ormet,
What are your methods of directing high flow to the aquarium floor?

Hello wideawake, to be honest i don't aim for creating flow on the aquarium floor specifically. It just gets enough from my overall high flow tank. Usually it builds up a bit around some structure and i siphon it out when i change water.
If i experience a rise in nutrients i siphon more often (into a 100 micron filter sock in sump so i don't have to change water). It has not been the case for me for a while tho. I have low bio load.

As I said- it is "some" fish that exhibit this reaction. However, your choice not to believe facts, dilutes the veracity of all of your advice.

I stand corrected, it might very well happen in some fish. And the opposite is probably true as well.

I dont however think that fish color disagreements nullifies my experience with high flow BB tanks :beer:

 

[syrinx]

Ormet-you obviously know BB tanks- no question. I was a harsh in my assesment. I do get frustrated when people disregard scientific fact, and substitute their experiences, but I too have made that error in my haste to respond at times. So often information becomes a poll of opinion online, and science gets lost, but I shouldnt have put that entire weight upon you! So once again my apologies.

 

[wet pet]

Sounds like a great idea.. But what about the the benificial bacteria and other things that live in the soil bed?

 

[Nina51]

Sounds like a great idea.. But what about the the benificial bacteria and other things that live in the soil bed?

i've been thinking about bb when i upgrade and this ^ is one of the questions i had, too.

 

[syrinx]

Sounds like a great idea.. But what about the the benificial bacteria and other things that live in the soil bed?

Generally the bacteria in the sandbed is redundant-SPS tanks tend to have plenty of live rock and skimming to handle bio load. Some people however do want to have the sand in the system, and in this case they run a remote DSB.

 

[MyOwnGrowOp]

Any bare bottom tank fans?

I absolutely love BB tanks. My 120 is running a shallow sand bed, but my 25 gallon top down is bare bottom and I love it. I had a piece of black acrylic cut for the bottom so all the rock and coral sit on it, and it looks super clean. I can't wait until the coralline takes over.

 

[ormet]

Sounds like a great idea.. But what about the the benificial bacteria and other things that live in the soil bed?

As Syrinx says, plenty of live rock usually covers that aspect. As can be seen in my picture earlier, i personally don't have a lot of LR. In fact, zero LR. Its all "dead" rock.

I do the brazilian/denadai approach and put siporax in the sump, 1L per 100L water and seed with bacteria. It can be bacteria in a bottle or bacteria from another system.

 

[ridetheducati]

I'm not a BB fan but I do like the concept of a BB. Has anyone ever experimented with sand epoxied to the bottom of a tank? (like a rock wall) This would give the look of sand but still be easy to keep clean.

It will trap detritus when coralline growth gets heavy and it looks ugly.

There are thousands of posts on this topic and I do not understand why hobbyist do not understand that a BB tank requires a lot of flow and strong skimming.

 

[das75]

lots of good pictures on the BB thread, specially like when the zoa take over (post 90, agsansoo's tank)

 

[syrinx]

There are thousands of posts on this topic and I do not understand why hobbyist do not understand that a BB tank requires a lot of flow and strong skimming.[/QUOTE]


Its the same problem as algae turf scrubbers- people buy into one aspect of the concept, and expect all of the benefits of the complete system. This is one case where people need to look back into the history of the concept. This is where written materials can be helpful. We all know how gossip changes from close to the truth to far from it as it passes down the line. This is the same track that the internet advice takes when the source material is ignored.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

So is a "painting" of black sand mixed with epoxy a bad idea? The bottom of my 300g will have glass patches (I'm covering the closed loop holes). Not to mention there's plywood under my glass which is visible.

What else can I do to keep the benefits but make it look better with the blemishes I describe?

 

[vitz]

ime, the whole 'color paling' thing occurs when the bottom glass pane is transparent, or as a function of lighter substrate vs. a darker substrate w/ fw fish. once the bottom pane gets covered w/ coralline there should be NO difference between substrate vs no substrate.

i believe it's a function of the fish being disoriented due to there appearing to be 'no bottom' present when the bottom pane is still clear, which disorients the fish.