Any serious SPS collectors use LED?

[MisterP]

I don't know how much more clear I can make it, you get better color with MH and T5. You get or at-least I got better growth under LED. As far as going back, your facts are not correct, I am going forward.

Why does everyone get so defensive...You are not going back to MH and T5 so how is that not correct....You have never used MH T5 then?

You say in the other success thread you began supplementing with MH rightand now are going forward to a full on MH T5 setup with a very small amount of LEDs right?

Again don't be defensive I'm just asking a question on what your thoughts are as your tank looked successful.

Your term of mentioning so successful is based on your observation point. Whether you are successful or so successful that is up to ones imagination. I think my many pictures can help the imagination.

I think your tank was successful and is exactly why I am asking if you thought that LEDs were so great and it looks like something worked for you why are you not staying with them and going back to a full on MH T5 setup?

I am not being rude but your logic of success, high end and serious does not dictate on what type of lighting one selects. As I stated you can be successful with all of the choices given you know how to take care of your tank and develop best practices that provide you with long term success.

The thread is not about taking care of your tank or water chem etc. This is a specific thread about LED and high end SPS keepers with all other variables being equal.

You will find the Most successful will run a combo of all, which is what I intend to do.

I never said you couldn't or implied that....again why so defensive?

If you are going back with 3* 250 Radiums...8*54W T5s...and only 2 strips of LED that tells me you were not totally sold on LED....maybe you were but thats my question if you can stop being defensive.....

Why are you going back to all that old school tech? Is it only colors? Coverage?

Keep in mind I am using an LED unit currently and my 3 main issues with LED is

as I have stated.....coverage, color and startup cost


Again why are you so defensive and condescending when I'm just trying to ask about your success with how you ran your LED tank and now switching back....I'm just trying to have a discussion.

 

[tdb320reef]

Why does everyone get so defensive...You are not going back to MH and T5 so how is that not correct....You have never used MH T5 then?

You say in the other success thread you began supplementing with MH rightand now are going forward to a full on MH T5 setup with a very small amount of LEDs right?

Again don't be defensive I'm just asking a question on what your thoughts are as your tank looked successful.



I think your tank was successful and is exactly why I am asking if you thought that LEDs were so great and it looks like something worked for you why are you not staying with them and going back to a full on MH T5 setup?



The thread is not about taking care of your tank or water chem etc. This is a specific thread about LED and high end SPS keepers with all other variables being equal.




I never said you couldn't or implied that....again why so defensive?

If you are going back with 3* 250 Radiums...8*54W T5s...and only 2 strips of LED that tells me you were not totally sold on LED....maybe you were but thats my question if you can stop being defensive.....

Why are you going back to all that old school tech? Is it only colors? Coverage?

Keep in mind I am using an LED unit currently and my 3 main issues with LED is

as I have stated.....coverage, color and startup cost


Again why are you so defensive and condescending when I'm just trying to ask about your success with how you ran your LED tank and now switching back....I'm just trying to have a discussion.

You saying that I am defensive is like me saying you're asking stupid questions. If you asking a question it is a good question but at times people write very direct and to the point. Please don't misinterpret ones writing style for defensiveness. I will attempt to answer your questions for the 3rd time with the same answers so if you don't accept them it is on you.

1. I started keeping SPS with LED and eventually supplemented with MH and liked the results.
2. I am staying with LEDS because in my opinion and my enjoyment the best color light for SPS corals is LED BLUE. The best white light comes from MH and T5 thus the combo
3. Water quality is very related to how you light your tank, perhaps this is what you are missing in your success?
4. I am totally sold on LED light it just looks better when you go forward and supplement with MH and T5

Again not defensive or condescending but very direct which is related to my personality and passion to the hobby. If you feel victimized or hurt in some way please don't incorrectly reference me in your posts. Honestly I hope my information will help in your success. Again please don't feel like a victim.

 

[VegasMike]

I appreciate the fact that lighting is but one detail in a long list of factors in what it takes to keep a "successful" SPS tank. It is quite subjective on many levels.

I think we can all agree that the original question was somewhat vague and flawed. We all have different priorities and different perceptions as to what constitutes success.

 

[Jim Z.]

The trick with getting optimum color in any lighting system is provided the best spectrum that provides high energy light which excites the accessory and photosynthetic pigments. Royal blue and purple/violet lights provide wavelengths that have sufficient energy to get the job done. Many folks who are experiencing problems with LED's tend to have the white channel set too high which dilutes color expression. I experienced this issue when my controller malfunctioned and wiped out all the blue and royal blue channels. Corals looked like crap! New controller implemented and colors returned. I also bumped up the violet channel and the greens and purples were nice and bright. I would like to try a red or pink acro to see how my spectrum influences the color. The warm whites in my setup are used for color balance and provide a minor amount of energy for photosynthesis.

Also, many LED rookies tend to set their LEDs too high initially and this causes burning/bleaching in certain corals. Go slow and allow the corals to adjust to the new lighting..................Jim

 

[MisterP]

I am totally sold on LED light it just looks better when you go forward and supplement with MH and T5

Ok. You say you're staying with LEDs but supplementing with MH and T5...thats like totally backward because you are only going to run a tiny section of LED strips so just due to the shear ratio of MH to T5 your LED is now the supplement right? Wouldn't you agree?

I never said I was successful or unsuccessful but I assure you my water quality is fine. I said I don't like the color rendition of the coral as compared to my MH, the startup cost is astronomical and always an argument as to why LEDs are used and reasoning for expensive up front but you gain energy efficiency thus saving money, however people don't do math and see that it takes several years to payback, and lots of shadowing compared to a good MH T5 setup.

Not being disrespectful but I think the logic that your Radiums were supplementing LEDs is a very strange concept. Radiums have been the gold standard for years and to say you use them to supplement is odd.

I still don't understand how you say 3*250 W Radiums, 8*54W T5s will be your supplemental lighting.

Also, I don't think I'm asking stupid questions I'm trying to understand the reasoning of 3*250 W Radiums, 8*54W T5s and a couple of LED strips...yet you say you are staying with LED


Staying with LED is like using a boat load of LED panels and throwing in 4 T5 to help with coverage.

 

[tdb320reef]

Ok. You say you're staying with LEDs but supplementing with MH and T5...thats like totally backward because you are only going to run a tiny section of LED strips so just due to the shear ratio of MH to T5 your LED is now the supplement right? Wouldn't you agree?

I never said I was successful or unsuccessful but I assure you my water quality is fine. I said I don't like the color rendition of the coral as compared to my MH, the startup cost is astronomical and always an argument as to why LEDs are used and reasoning for expensive up front but you gain energy efficiency thus saving money, however people don't do math and see that it takes several years to payback, and lots of shadowing compared to a good MH T5 setup.

Not being disrespectful but I think the logic that your Radiums were supplementing LEDs is a very strange concept. Radiums have been the gold standard for years and to say you use them to supplement is odd.

I still don't understand how you say 3*250 W Radiums, 8*54W T5s will be your supplemental lighting.

If you go by ratio in terms of what wattage? Then your correct based on your idea of volume of light. However if I run my leds for 12 hours and MH and T5's for 5 hours then well guess what I am supplementing based on time.

In the past I had 12 panels and I removed 4 to supplement my existing 8 panels with 4 250 watt radiums. So based on your idea of ratio it is 165X8 to 250X4 - Do the math.

As far as cost I went with Evergrows which cost me 100 each. I ran them for two years and sold them for 80 so there really was a minimal upfront cost.

At one time having a salt water tank in your livingroom was a strange concept. There are many different ways of looking at things. Add a led blue strip or two and use your existing light as supplement and I am sure you and your corals will be very happy.

 

[MisterP]

If you feel victimized or hurt in some way please don't incorrectly reference me in your posts.

Wow man you are very rude. Why would I be victimized?

This is a simple discussion and the reference to you starting the LED success thread was accurate right? Did you not start that thread?

 

[MisterP]

Wow even more rude comments..class act you are...great that we have such awesome people here to be rude and condescending when people just want to ask about there tanks.


Don't post your tank and success if you don't want questions.

 

[tdb320reef]

Wow even more rude comments..class act you are...great that we have such awesome people here to be rude and condescending when people just want to ask about there tanks.


Don't post your tank and success if you don't want questions.

No I did not start this post. Again, I attempted to answer your questions and also explained that when I write I write very direct. It appears that you don't like the answers that you are getting and having an emotional response.

I apologize you feel that way. I hope your questions were answered and to protect your feelings will move on. Good luck in getting your questions answered in the exact way that you want them answered.

 

[MisterP]

At one time having a salt water tank in your livingroom was a strange concept. There are many different ways of looking at things. Add a led blue strip or two and use your existing light as supplement and I am sure you and your corals will be very happy.

I agree about LED as supplement light.

In the past I had 12 panels and I removed 4 to supplement my existing 8 panels with 4 250 watt radiums. So based on your idea of ratio it is 165X8 to 250X4 - Do the math.

I wasn't referencing your old tank sir. We have established that already it looked great so moving on maybe with less attitude.

If you go by ratio in terms of what wattage? Then your correct based on your idea of volume of light. However if I run my leds for 12 hours and MH and T5's for 5 hours then well guess what I am supplementing based on time.

This makes no sense because your tank would be awesome with only blasting the MH and T5 for 5 hours and wouldn't skip a beat I guarantee. And only throwing in the LEDs for the other 7 hours well I wouldn't call the MH T5 supplemental ...that logic totally doesn't make sense.

 

[MisterP]

No I did not start this post. Again, I attempted to answer your questions and also explained that when I write I write very direct. It appears that you don't like the answers that you are getting and having an emotional response.

I apologize you feel that way. I hope your questions were answered and to protect your feelings will move on. Good luck in getting your questions answered in the exact way that you want them answered.

Why are you so rude? Like I said the reference was to YOUR LED Success thread not this thread for the THIRD time. I'll say it again I was referencing YOUR LED Success thread.

Why do you think I'm emotional or my feelings are hurt?

You are worse than my wife trying to twist your thoughts on me. Are you female?

All that I was asking is why you went back to MH T5 if LEDs worked for you and somehow you have twisted this in to me getting my feelings hurt.

This was a decent thread until you started typing without taking your meds.

 

[VegasMike]

Wow !!

MisterP - Who pee'd in your rice krispies this morning?

He gave an honest, direct answer. You appear to want to twist his answer to fit your position. I am not too sure he is the one being rude.

:deadhorse:

 

[MisterP]

Wow !!

MisterP - Who pee'd in your rice krispies this morning?

He gave an honest, direct answer. You appear to want to twist his answer to fit your position. I am not too sure he is the one being rude.

:deadhorse:

Jump on MrP day huh.

Read TBD posts.....All I was asking was why he or she was going back to MH T5 and every response was about me getting my feelings hurt or I was a victim or some other BS.

My posts were never meant to do anything but ask a question on why as I have said several times.

If LEDs worked why go back to a boat load of MH T5....very simple stuff here Mike.

Don't jump on me before you read the posts.


How does twisting his/her answer to fit my position make sense here? I am just curious on what planet 3*250 Radiums, 8*54W T5's become supplemental lighting?

 

[VegasMike]

Believe me, I read them all.

The problem is that all of these comments are in a written format, not a true discussion where other factors like emotion can be adequately and correctly assessed.

The way I read a series of comments can be entirely different that the way you, or others, read them. Based on my reading, I understood his position. I am not saying it was correct, just that I got the same impression that he did.

Now, that could have been influenced by me being involved in this thread from early on with a contrary view to yours.

I happen to agree that a combination is probably best, but to have a combination like he suggests lends itself well to a tank with a larger footprint. It is what I would have done with my 450 gallon tank if I still had it. Getting rid of the four 400watt MH and swapping them for 250's/T5's and LED's could have solved my heat issue. With my 220 gallon tanks, my space is somewhat limited, my conditions are different and I do not chose to deal with that heat.

 

[VegasMike]

MisterP - As for all this primary vs supplemental, who cares? I see his point if he wants to run his LED's all day and supplement MH/T5 as the midday, more intense, lighting. It's just semantics. You are trying to get him to change his words to fit your position.

 

[JB NY]

IMO I think that no one has taken the time to properly dial their LED's in and find that sweet spot that gives awesome color and awesome growth. LED's are here to stay and are catching on like a wild fire. LED's will improve with time (just like MH did), someone will discover that a specific combo of LEDs will give you awesome color and growth. Many first time users go and by a Radion or Kessel and hook it up using the default settings and turn the intensity to 75%-100% and walk away only to come back to a bleached out reef. There are many factors here no one can answer the question of whether LED's are comparable to MH or that LED's produce stellar growth. MH has been around for a long time and many have tweaked and tested to put MH where it is today. It is coming for LED's its just a matter of time.

I think this is a good point for reefers new and seasoned, with LEDs there are still many aspects that are different from what we are used to in the past. With MH on SPS we've been doing it for a long time and many tools now exist where we can put SPS into a MH tank do very well. But those same rules don't seem to apply to LED right now. My example is I have a Kessil LED lamp over my frag tank, in the past my frag tanks have used MH. My Frag tank under MH had PAR levels around the same as the upper third of my main tank. I would keep frags in there for a few weeks to acclimate them and then move them anywhere in my main tank, nice and easy no issues at all. When I first put frags under LED I just matched PAR levels (actually much less) and put them in, bleached them something awful. I now have them at about half the PAR levels of the main tank, and I still feel that it is not setup the best it can be. So I agree there seems to be a good amount of info that we still don't fully understand when it comes to using LED with SPS tanks.

 

[jda]

...just a few more years and everybody will have 10K on M80 and VHO Super Actinics again... might as well start arguing about it now.

FWIW, I am going to this in January. I already have all of the stuff ready to go and just need to weld up a fixture.

 

[MisterP]

MisterP - As for all this primary vs supplemental, who cares? I see his point if he wants to run his LED's all day and supplement MH/T5 as the midday, more intense, lighting. It's just semantics. You are trying to get him to change his words to fit your position.

Dude....The usage of the word is wrong and the information is misleading.

Supplemental=added to something else to make it complete

The usage here is that somehow the 3 Radiums and 8 T5s are not complete spectrum lighting and they need something added or SUPPLEMENTED to make it complete.

WHICH IS WRONG!

More so that just blue LED strips are going to make any difference in that light combo oif Radiums and T5s.

I have no position Mike....How many times do I say it. LED, MH , T5 all work in different ways. I use LEDs now because of heat issues. I plan on going back on my next build.

 

[JB NY]

...just a few more years and everybody will have 10K on M80 and VHO Super Actinics again... might as well start arguing about it now.

FWIW, I am going to this in January. I already have all of the stuff ready to go and just need to weld up a fixture.

ok. M80 will give you too much light IMO, I was using XM10K on electronic and standard ballasts, it was a crazy amount of light. I couldn't imagine putting more light on those corals. VHO Super Actinic combo was killer though.

 

[MisterP]

I'll just agree to disagree with the fact at least right now LEDs are cobbled together with a blue of this and a blue of that, a dash of violet, throw in a little red and green and its called full spectrum.

There are so many different spectrums that we see from 400-700 ish and to throw 7 or 8 colors in and call it full spectrum is crazy talk.

When I think of full spectrum LED...I think for example

400nm
410nm
420nm
440nm
460nm
500nm
520nm
550nm
600nm
620nm
640nm

etc., etc.